http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3028780Oh my.
This is a new bonfire, but in case anyone's fogotten the bonfire of yesterday (Tuesday), the mountain man tom primitive is in
favor of the second amendment.
ThomWV (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:30 PM
Original message
This is a God Dam OUTRAGE - How Can Associated Press Do This?
This is the beginning of their article on the oral argument heard by the Court today:
"WASHINGTON (AP) -- Americans have a right to own guns, Supreme Court justices declared Tuesday in a historic and lively debate that could lead to the most significant interpretation of the Second Amendment since its ratification two centuries ago."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SCOTUS_GUNS?SITE...
The Court will not even rule on this until June, how in hell can a major news service make a blatantly false claim like this? No Justice made any such claim and the news service has to know they did not and would not.
This is just a god dam outrage and a clear attempt to sway the public's perception on a major issue. To make it sould like this already a done deal.
Oh my.
Paint It Black (738 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's not blatantly false, but it is VERY deceiving
The Supreme Court hasn't rendered their opinion yet, as you pointed out. However, according to that article, some of the justices have been making pro-gun statements. But by stating in the headline that "justices agree" it makes it sound like the Supreme Court has already come down on the pro-gun side.
VERY bad journalism.
ThomWV (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. "Supreme Court justices declared Tuesday"
First sentence, "Supreme Court justices declared Tuesday". That is what I call blatantly false. It doesn't say they had this opinion yesterday, or that they wrote about it last year, or hinted at it at a party last night. It says they declared it on tuesday.
Misanthrope2 (15 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. That is what they declared.
Roberts was the most vocal. Their statements and questions clearly showed support for an individual right to own guns. Denial is not argument.
sharesunited (7 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Individual justices wanting, through their remarks from the bench, to reassure the gun-toting public how they will vote.
Better Believe It (18 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I Support The Right To Bear Arms
And also the right to wear shirt sleaves!
Now seriously ....
I support the right of people to own firearms. I would not like to live in a country where only the government and its repressive military and police forces are permitted to own and use guns.
The government would only enforce laws outlawing ownership of fireams against progressives while right-wing vigilante and neo-fascist groups would be left alone .... in fact, many cops and right-wing military nutjobs would join and organize such para-military outfits.
Uh, was the para-military SDS or SLA full of right-wingers?
Up2Late (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Because the AP really suck, that's how.
It's been pandering to the RW for years now. It's just slightly better than UPI most days, and UPI REALLY Sucks.
About the only good News source, these days, are Reuters and the Non-U.S., Liberal papers in England and a few other English language papers.
<http://www.reuters.com />
sfexpat2000 (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. They do it all the time. That's why I call them Authorized Propaganda.
Misanthrope2 (15 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. The article is accurate.
If you read the transcript of oral argument, a majority of justices appear to believe that there is an individual right.
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/oral_arguments/argument_t...
I have written that this decision would come down to Justice Kennedy and he seems to be in favor of an individual right to own guns.
Please actually read the oral argument paying attention to the questions posed by the justices, and you will see that it looks like they believe in an individual right to own guns.
ThomWV (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Actually I listened to it a half hour after it took place
C-Span covered it and in fact had coverage of an hour long panel on the subject that preceeded it. So, yes, I am well aware of Justice Kennedy's questions and what they hinted at.
Misanthrope2 (15 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Not just Kennedy.
It was Kennedy and the usual "conservative" gang- Roberts, Scalia, Alito and you know where Thomas is going. In fact, Roberts was the most persistent. Please name the justices that will vote against an individual right besides Ginsburg and Breyer. That is a majority for an individual right, so the article was accurate. You have not shown otherwise. Perhaps you are biased against guns, as your post seems a bit short of facts and spelling, and a bit long on hysteria. Many if not most liberals own guns, so there is no reason to stir up the right wing with anti-gun hysteria. We do not need to make that mistake again. Please remember that the majority of voters favor gun ownership, despite what Paul Helmke might want you to believe.
frank "Sigmund Freud" solich caught something interesting in the bold area, above.
AlinPA (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. I usually check the news source on stories and AP does this sort of thing a lot
DemocratInSoCal (175 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. Because It's Soon To Become FACT
Because the AP knows already, how the court is going to rule.
Don't you?
It's like making a prediction on a game, where the refs have been paid off.
It's a safe bet, and I wouldn't be surprised, if someone is already privy to how the ruling is going to come down.
Don't act surprised in June, when it's EXACTLY as stated today.
I'm not defending their story, but this country has become such a joke, you can pretty much figure out the ending in advance.
ThomWV (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. "soon to become" is not News, its propoganda. AP is a News Service - or so it says.
DemocratInSoCal (175 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Continue To Believe That
Wasn't it AP, that changed all their numbers in 2004, when it was appearing that Kerry would win the election?
AP is just another propaganda arm of this facist government. There is no legitimate media left in this country.
If you think that just because they're the Associated Press, that they're somehow honest, then you haven't been paying attention.
Wasn't it AP who in 2004, reported that a Republican crowd listening to George Bush "cheered wildly" when it was announced the Impeached One had emergency surgery for his heart?
Misanthrope2 (15 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. I was an elected Democrat in OC, California and the article was accurate even if you don't like the source. Nobody wrote that they are honest because they are the AP. We call that a straw-man argument. So, what is false about the article.
Misanthrope2 (15 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. What do you think "news" is?
"News" is new information about specific and timely events; just like the Supreme's questions and statements during the oral argument of a precedent setting case.
So, why is it not news?
texshelters (205 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. Remeber, if you get shot by a gun it's your fault!
As long as people live in fear, and there are some lunatics who can get guns, them blaming the victim will ensue. Now Arizona is looking to arm teaching in colleges and universities. There's a solution for you, more gun!!
People who are afraid and misinformed about the real possibility of gun violence will always argue for an armed society. People that is why it's so easy for the US to support a war in Iraq and killing as a solution.
Peake (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. Anything involving humans is subject to the possibility of being utter crap.
Just saying. It's worth keeping under consideration.
Texas Explorer (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. CNN is talking about this now. Believe it or not, seems the SCOTUS is to decide if we as citizens have the Constitutional right to bear arms.
Why is this all of a sudden an issue when we've been taught all our live that the Constitution gives us the right to bear arms?
derby378 (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. The consensus so far...
...is that SCOTUS will say that yes, individual Americans have the right, but the issue will be how far the right goes and to what degree restrictions can be placed on it. Lots of discussion about machine guns before the bench today, though I don't think this ruling by itself will endanger either the National Firearms Act, the Gun Control Act, or the outright full-auto ban in the Firearms Owners Protection Act.
rolleitreks (240 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. This is good. Now that NRA can't scare people that the "libruls" will take away their guns.
Oh?
displacedtexan (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. ScotusBlog is live-blogging.
Looks like Breyer and Kennedy will vote with the wingnuts.
Better Believe It (18 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Who Here Supports Gun Confiscation By The Feds?
I hope they vote in support of the Constitution and our right to bear arms. It's not a right-wing issue unless you make it so.
Tens of millions of people WHO DO NOT SUPPORT right-wing Republicans own firearms and are opposed to the hidden agenda of some self-described liberals (a minority of progressives) which I think is the confiscation of ALL fireams owned by private individuals.
So please don't present the defense of gun ownnership as just a "right-wing" position and issue. It's a civil liberty issue to me.
benEzra (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-18-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. A majority of the justices said in court today that the 2ndA pertains to individuals including several of the liberal justices (good!). Counting the pro-individual-right voices heard today, it is pretty damn likely that the ruling will affirm that the 2ndA applies to individual citizens and not to the National Guard or whatever.
FWIW, a pro-gun ruling would definitely help Dems in November, for many reasons.
Misanthrope2 (15 posts) Tue Mar-18-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. You are right.
Anti-gun positions are in the minority among progressives, too. I wish the anti-gunners would shut up and stop alienating gun owners, many of whom are single-issue voters.
Oh my.
One always thought the primitives would turn pro-life before they turned pro-2nd amendment, but one was wrong.
