Author Topic: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!  (Read 6750 times)

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Offline dutch508

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Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« on: May 05, 2015, 03:55:54 AM »
Of course- it isn't the poor islamist's fault they attacked and were killed before killing innocent Americans in tevas. It's Pam Geller's fault she provolked them.

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DonViejo (14,763 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141084751

Civil rights expert on Texas shooting: Pam Geller’s hate group got ‘the response they were seeking’


The Southern Poverty Law Center, one step up from a communist propaganda journal, says Pam Geller provolked islam... That's like saying Martin Luther King Jr. provolked the KKK with the march in Selma and should be arrested...

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Jackpine Radical (44,173 posts)
8. I've been really thinking about some of this stuff, and the whole issue of free speech.

The classic limits to free speech are exemplified by the "shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater" business, and fomenting insurrection.

The Geller crap seems to me to edge pretty close to that line. Is deliberately doing something that provokes a crazy person into killing others protected? Should it be? If it is not protected, where do you draw the new line? Can you make a law that would suppress what Geller did, but could not be used to suppress legitimate dissent?

Personally, I think we better leave that line where it is, and pay the price that the Gellers, the lunatics they provoked, and the Skokie Nazis have exacted from us. It is the price of freedom.


DUmpmonkie tries to have it both ways.

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Ms. Toad (12,808 posts)
11. There doesn't have to be a law, for people of good will to condemn it.

The debates on DU today, and those following Charlie Hebdo, create a false dichotomy: That one must choose between upholding the sanctity of free speech and condemning hate-mongering and deliberate provocation.

Individuals are not (for the most part) government actors. We don't have to choose - and I won't choose.

Geller's actions were hateful, vile, and inexcusable, and I condemn them. If they were to take place anywhere near me, I would seek out other like-minded individuals to engage in creative disruption of the message she is seeking to communicate (like these folks do with the Fred Phelps's crew).

And - if I worked for the ACLU - I would also defend her legal right to be a complete ass.


Pam Geller shows you exactly what islam is about- and so you blame her and not islam for the violence that comes.

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Jackpine Radical (44,173 posts)
14. I agree entirely with your sentiments. Qnd I would add that we really need to turn our attention to becoming a more tolerant, compassionate and humane society. 


Where is islam's tolerant, compassionate and humane society? Is it ISIS? Is it Saudi Arabia? Is it Iran?

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CrawlingChaos (1,264 posts)
38. Prove her point???

This hateful, bloodthirsty piece of shit does not have a "point". She has a murderous agenda.


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NanceGreggs (16,367 posts)
22. I understand your points.

However, there is a difference between doing something that others may find offensive, and doing something for the sole purpose of being offensive.

Scorsese did not make "Last Temptation" for the purpose of provoking an "insane response". Quite the opposite - it was his film homage to the suffering of Christ as a means of salvation, something many Christians found inspirational and in keeping with the tenets of their faith.

This current incident is not a matter of exercising nor protecting one's First Amendment right to free speech. It was a matter of disrespecting other people's religious beliefs for the sole purpose of saying, "I am allowed to do this, and therefore I will - despite the fact that there is no purpose in doing so, other than to be offensive."

It strikes me as incredibly childish to do something - anything - just because one can, and not because one feels they are advancing or protecting their rights, or the rights of others.

Yes, shooting people over cartoons is psychotic. And so is disrespecting someone else's religious beliefs when done for the sole purpose of saying, "I'm allowed to do this, and therefore I will," without any other purpose being served, or even considered.



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RiverNoord (389 posts)
24. Sorry, but you're dealing with false equivalencies.

First, those were actual works of art. (Whether you like them or not...) And neither Scorsese or Mapplethorpe gathered a bunch of supporters and displayed their works in wide open outdoors public explicitly in order to insult people.

What do you think would happen if a group of Muslims chose to gather in Texas and display images of a naked Jesus Christ having sex, while burning Bibles around a bonfire? That would be a genuine equivalency. There would be no point but to provoke others who find these things sacred to violence.

I'm an atheist, and I am careful about discussing others' religious beliefs. I see no reason to openly insult people who are religious in some fashion. It doesn't do anyone any good, including me.

I am 100% for free speech, and I agree that the government should not act in any way to prohibit such crap. However, provocation is fully recognized in the American legal system as a potential mitigating factor when imposing punishment for a violent act. Why, exactly, is that? Because we're all human and there is a point where insulting the things a person considers important will provoke that person to act against you. Just because certain hate speech can't be banned by government doesn't mean it is worthy of defense when it provokes one of the targets of the hate speech to violence.

Two young men are now dead because of what this group did. I have nothing but loathing for such crap.


Two [innocent] young men killed by hateful racist cops!  :thatsright:

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RiverNoord (389 posts)
51. Your assumptions are much broader and less grounded in reality.

You allege:

1) The shooters were psychopaths. Do you have any psychiatric evidence to back this up? Psychopathy is an exceptionally unusual and severe mental illness. They had guns, were extremely offended by this gathering, the primary and explicit purpose of which was to insult and attack their religion, and got themselves killed trying to violently disrupt it. Not so much psychopaths, in all likelihood, but a couple of young guys looking for meaning in their lives and seeing it in violently defending their religion from a bunch of assholes. Unacceptable, yes. Criminal, yes. Just not likely psychopathy.

2) That 'we don't have to dance around absolute insanity because we don't want to offend or appear intolerant.' Seriously? It is well known that visual representations of the Islamic central holy figure, Mohammed, is basically banned by just about every variety of Islam. It's exceptionally easy not to hold gatherings at which the centerpiece is a bunch of cartoons of that very figure. I've never done it. I've never even thought about doing that. I think that it takes a considerable amount of effort to secure a location, gather together others who would be into that kind of thing, prepare the material, etc. Have you ever considered organizing a gathering at which a lot of people will openly insult over a billion adherents to a religious faith? I'm thinking... not. I know I've never considered, oh, hanging an bloody effigy of Jesus Christ on an upside down cross (y'know, it's hard work imagining insults to religions...) or burning Qurans. I've got better things to do and I don't see what the point would be.

I suspect that you are much younger than I am and have some steam to burn off. OK - I get that. However, you should at least be able to recognize the difference between 'dancing around absolute insanity because we don't want to offend or appear intolerant,' and deliberately organizing events (involving inviting people from across the world) at which people openly insult a religion and deliberately seek to severely offend adherents to it. It's a tremendous distinction, so far apart that there is really no similarity at all.

And, of course, it's funded by rich people who personally couldn't care less about the 'cause.' They do, however, like street-level violence and inter-religious conflict - things which make people feel insecure, and insecure people are willing to work longer, for less money and in poorer working conditions. That's what's behind the smokescreen.


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RiverNoord (389 posts)
53. Really?

Are you familiar with any Christian decree that explicitly forbids a cross being placed in a jug of urine? I'm pretty sure there isn't one, anywhere, coming from any Christian sect, ever. Sure it's offensive, I guess, to many, but it is a critical distinction between the idiots that put together the garbage today and the idiot that made that work of 'art.'

The people today acted with malice. They hate (or claim to hate) Islam, and set out to do something very public that they knew was extremely offensive to over a billion people, based on clear teachings within that religion that such a thing is wrong. They had no purpose other than malice. They certainly didn't establish anything like an art gallery in which they would display the examples of the 'art' (you claim) that they wanted to show off. The whole thing was explicitly malicious. 2 young men took the bait and ended up dead. They wouldn't be dead if these assholes hadn't set out to insult their religion. I call that callous and cold-hearted. There were others that deserved just as much as the two guys with the guns, but they came prepared and eager for violence and managed to get away without a scratch.


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YOHABLO (1,590 posts)
18. Geller is responsible for the deaths of these people. We should respect other cultures and religions - except for the Jews and Christians.

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warrant46 (2,191 posts)
43. Agreed

They unfortunately had a bad stoke of luck in defending their beliefs against the cartoonists.

I also guess those capitalists in the world trade center also provoked, the same kind of reaction from similar nutjobs.


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marshall (6,555 posts)
46. Christians have done the exact same thinG

It's been a while since the Salem Witch Trials, but Christians have come from a sometimes violent past.


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Fritz Walter (29 posts)
26. Deport the Dutch dude

Whose name I will not utter here.

He poses a threat to our homeland's security and therefore his name belongs on a do-not-allow list.

 
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Offline Carl

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2015, 06:28:50 AM »
Just come out and say it assholes...you love and excuse muzzies because they hate America as much as you ****ers do.

Offline miskie

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2015, 07:41:34 AM »
Just come out and say it assholes...you love and excuse muzzies because they hate America as much as you ****ers do.

Its binary thinking. They really seem to believe that being a good liberal means being on the opposite side of the GOP on every issue. So, holding a protest that involves looting & burning down neighborhoods is free speech, whereas holding a protest involving drawing pictures shouldn't be permitted.

Offline FiddyBeowulf

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2015, 08:37:43 AM »
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CrawlingChaos (1,264 posts)
38. Prove her point???

This hateful, bloodthirsty piece of shit does not have a "point". She has a murderous agenda.
Islam is a murderous agenda but you Jew and Christian hating pieces of crap are too stupid to realize that. You DUmmies do realize if the Caliphate you are doing nothing to prevent comes into being your necks are going to be hacked thru too.
 
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2015, 10:09:59 AM »
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CrawlingChaos (1,264 posts)
38. Prove her point???

This hateful, bloodthirsty piece of shit does not have a "point". She has a murderous agenda.

Really? How many Muslims has she murdered so far?

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Baha'i, and others "provoke" Muslims by not converting. So the slaughter of such folk across Africa and southern Asia are the fault of those killed, for daring to exist?

More stupid "reasoning" based on blinding hatred.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline wasp69

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2015, 11:06:33 AM »
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NanceGreggs (16,367 posts)
22.

It was a matter of disrespecting other people's religious beliefs for the sole purpose of saying, "I am allowed to do this, and therefore I will - despite the fact that there is no purpose in doing so, other than to be offensive."

It strikes me as incredibly childish to do something - anything - just because one can, and not because one feels they are advancing or protecting their rights, or the rights of others.

Yes, shooting people over cartoons is psychotic. And so is disrespecting someone else's religious beliefs when done for the sole purpose of saying, "I'm allowed to do this, and therefore I will," without any other purpose being served, or even considered.

Nance, dear, if i could stack the irony of your drivel end to end, it would reach the moon.

How in the name of God any of these Christophobes can post shit like that with a straight face is beyond me.
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Offline Big Dog

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2015, 11:06:43 AM »
Really? How many Muslims has she murdered so far?

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Baha'i, and others "provoke" Muslims by not converting. So the slaughter of such folk across Africa and southern Asia are the fault of those killed, for daring to exist?

More stupid "reasoning" based on blinding hatred.

Blaming the victims. Nice, DUmmies.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2015, 01:13:22 PM »
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NanceGreggs (16,367 posts)
22.

It was a matter of disrespecting other people's religious beliefs for the sole purpose of saying, "I am allowed to do this, and therefore I will - despite the fact that there is no purpose in doing so, other than to be offensive."

It strikes me as incredibly childish to do something - anything - just because one can, and not because one feels they are advancing or protecting their rights, or the rights of others.

Yes, shooting people over cartoons is psychotic. And so is disrespecting someone else's religious beliefs when done for the sole purpose of saying, "I'm allowed to do this, and therefore I will," without any other purpose being served, or even considered.

Given that Christian-bashing, Judaism-bashing and theism-bashing are DU staples, has anyone tried yet to get NG's post Hidden?
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Gina

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2015, 01:15:14 PM »
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DonViejo (14,763 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141084751

Civil rights expert on Texas shooting: Pam Geller’s hate group got ‘the response they were seeking’

Soooooo when a Christian fundalmentalist blows up an abortion clinic and it's people inside then the pro-abortion people got exactly what they were seeking? 






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Offline DLR Pyro

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2015, 01:20:25 PM »
Soooooo when a Christian fundalmentalist blows up an abortion clinic and it's people inside then the pro-abortion people got exactly what they were seeking?

or when a group of dirty hippy DUmmy douches get the crap beat out of them by Veterans when they are caught burning or stepping on the Flag...
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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2015, 01:37:00 PM »
The Southern Poverty Law Center IS a hate group.

Quote
Southern Poverty Law Center Places Ben Carson On Its ‘Extremist Watch List’

Then Apologizes;

http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/11/southern-poverty-law-center-apologizes-to-ben-carson-for-putting-him-on-its-extremist-list/

« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 01:44:50 PM by J P Sousa »
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2015, 03:26:29 PM »
If anybody has a mole on that thread, suggest that the muzzies "take it up a notch".
Once they have forced all Americans to capitulate to their death threat on the no muhammed(purposely misspelled) images,
threaten to kill  until another aspect of islam is obeyed without dissent.
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Offline Movie buff- The Sequel

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2015, 06:43:53 PM »
More of the "Blame the victims, portray the violent psychos as the REAL victims" BS the liberals love puking out on occasions like this.

"However, there is a difference between doing something that others may find offensive, and doing something for the sole purpose of being offensive... This current incident is not a matter of exercising nor protecting one's First Amendment right to free speech. It was a matter of disrespecting other people's religious beliefs for the sole purpose of saying, "I am allowed to do this, and therefore I will - despite the fact that there is no purpose in doing so, other than to be offensive."...
It strikes me as incredibly childish to do something - anything - just because one can, and not because one feels they are advancing or protecting their rights, or the rights of others.....Yes, shooting people over cartoons is psychotic. And so is disrespecting someone else's religious beliefs when done for the sole purpose of saying, "I'm allowed to do this, and therefore I will," without any other purpose being served, or even considered."

That mindset this DUmmy is describing (Which is indeed obnoxious and juvenile, and I doubt it was what Geller was going for) is actively used by such revolting, asinine liberal media darlings as Bill Maher, Sarah Silverman, and Seth Macfarlane. The whole "Saying something horrifically crass, deliberately insensitive and offensive, and in incredibly poor taste= funny and edgy" mindset.

" Christians have done the exact same thinG

It's been a while since the Salem Witch Trials, but Christians have come from a sometimes violent past."

Wait, wait: Is this DUmmy going for the whole idiotic "The Salem Witch Trials were a bigoted persecution of poor Wiccans for their beliefs" fallacy?
That is just freaking stupid.
Most if not all of the people killed or imprisoned in the Salem Witch Trials were Christians (In fact, one of the people executed was a Puritan minister named George Burroughs who had been a pastor in Salem for a while) who were falsely accused of witchcraft by the corrupt and paranoid townspeople.
While supposed Christian piety and a desire to protect the village were the publicly- announced, "Official" reasons for the Salem Witch Trials, they were in fact motivated by a combination of boredom/ a desire for attention (The girls who made the first accusations), petty spite (Many of the accusers had long- standing grudges against the people they accused), and good old- fashioned greed (When a person was convicted and executed for witchcraft, everything he or she owned would be confiscated and sold at auction; Many unscrupulous Salem landowners would accuse their land- rich neighbors of witchcraft in order to make a quick, cheap land- grab of as much of their property as possible), none of which are traits that the Christian faith holds in particularly high regard.
One of my own ancestors was a defendant in the Salem Witch Trials (According to my historian/ genealogist grandmother, she was a woman with a bit of a sharp tongue, which made her some enemies and was almost certainly the basis of her being accused), but she was exonerated.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 07:01:22 PM by Movie buff- The Sequel »

Offline obumazombie

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2015, 09:56:37 PM »
If the muzzies can get the infidels to knuckle under to the no muhammed image rule, they will trot out a never ending list of rules for infidels to knuckle under to.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 10:01:56 PM »
If the muzzies can get the infidels to knuckle under to the no muhammed image rule, they will trot out a never ending list of rules for infidels to knuckle under to.
They have a whole list of no-no's for the unbelieving infidels....and as The Big Mo himself said, "I have been made victorious through terror."
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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2015, 10:06:52 PM »
They have a whole list of no-no's for the unbelieving infidels....and as The Big Mo himself said, "I have been made victorious through terror."

I think we get it, the lib/dem/DUmmies/socialists don't seem to get it.
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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2015, 10:59:56 PM »
Quote
The Southern Poverty Law Center, one step up from a communist propaganda journal,

Not even.
              

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2015, 11:19:34 PM »
O'Reilly and Trump are on the "don't stir the hornet's nest" bandwagon.
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2015, 12:31:24 AM »
Leftists and Islamists are the same.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2015, 12:54:52 AM »
Je suis Pamela.
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Offline HawkHogan

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2015, 01:05:40 AM »
Je suis Pamela.

Je Suis... unless it's a conservative woman... then it's "burn in hell bitch!!"

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2015, 01:06:57 AM »
Je Suis... unless it's a conservative woman... then it's "burn in hell bitch!!"
Liberalism 101: Blame the victim.
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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2015, 01:15:43 AM »
Liberalism 101: Blame the victim.

Or create victims when when doesn't exist.  See Duke and UVA.

Offline Chris_

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2015, 01:53:30 AM »
Question libs can't answer: If Islam is peaceful then why is drawing pictures of Mohammed provocative and dangerous?
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline SVPete

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Re: Pam Geller's fault islam is violent and hateful!
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2015, 08:22:29 AM »
Question libs can't answer: If Islam is peaceful then why is drawing pictures of Mohammed provocative and dangerous?

Many Loib & Progs live in a Through-the-Looking-Glass:

--> They claim to be deathly afraid of oppression and violence from the "Fundamentalist" Christians they condemn and mock through thing such as the Crucifix-in-a-bottle-of-urine they called "art"; no Christian shot up the "art" galleries that displayed it (or the Virgin Mary picture done in elephant crap, or ...); "New Atheists" churn out books condemning Christians and of religious believers as the source of the world's ills and fools like these DU folk mock and rail against "Fundamentalist" Christians in full confidence that they will experience no consequences;

--> Meanwhile they defend Muslims generally as peaceful victims even as the Jihadis among Sunni and Shiite Muslims are screaming, "Off with her head!" and "Off with his head!" . . . . . . and doing it./

Grab a flamingo and let's play croquet!
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.