primitives don't talk to police

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7324523

Oh my.

Big campfire.

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Sat Dec-26-09 01:32 AM
Original message
 
The Terrible Advice: Never Talk to the Police

that's one of those mantras i hear get repeated here (specifically regarding people who are possible suspects. obviously victims and witnesses should talk to police, unless you are a "stop snitching" nutcase)...

but in 20 yrs of law enforcement experience, i have seen PERSONALLY literally hundreds of examples where it's simply bad advice, and people helped themselves by telling the truth. if you are guilty as hell, it's generally a bad idea to speak to the police when questioned as a suspect (although not always... see gary ridgway for instance), but even that's not always true.

but i am specifically referring to cases where you are innocent.

here's my christmas story from last night.

christmas eve we get a call from one of our "frequent flyers", we'll call "joe". he's complaining about our ULTIMATE frequent flyer, a woman i will call sarah. sarah gets fall down drunk most nights, and often calls police with bogus complaints. she has about as much credibility as a three dollar bill.

well tonight, joe is calling. seems he is reporting that sarah was standing outside his trailer and yelling at him, in clear violation of a protective order, which we verified as served. not only did joe claim this, but his mother claimed this as well.

they made the call to police at 6:30 pm, so obviously it happened prior to that.

we arrive and inspect the order, interview the two , and develop probable cause. for sarah to do something like this is not at all out of character for her. she has little respect for the law, or other people.

we arrest sarah. i advise her of her rights. she claims she was at church until 7:00 pm. (we arrived about 7:15 pm and it is now 7:30). thus, it woudl be impossible for her to have committed the order violation.

we find two witnesses, including the pastor's WIFE, who saw her at church. she gets unarrested. joe gets written up for giving a false material statement, and sarah now has ammunition to get hte order (it's a temporary order that hasn;'t gone to hearing yet) lifted.

here's my point. if she had just shut up when she was arrested and advised of her rights, she would have spent (at least) the night in jail. with her priors, maybe a couple of days before they ROR'd her. ON CHRISTMAS of all times.

but because she did the RIGHT thing, she was innocent, and she explained why, the REAL criminal is getting punished, and heck ... she could probably sue him.

the moral: the advice that you should never talk to police is poor advice. it's situation dependent, even if arrested, as this case demoonstrates. selection bias comes into play because most defense lawyers, and most people ONLY see cases where people get in trouble and dig themselves a deeper hole by talking. they don't see ALL the other times when people avoid even an arrest (let alone a trial) because they give an explanation. heck, i was pulled over at gunpoint as an armed robbery suspect. i told them the truth and i was let go (wrong place, wrong time, and in a car very similar to the actual suspect).

that's my christmas story.

Immediately:

TexasObserver  (1000+ posts)        Sat Dec-26-09 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. Thanks, but no thanks!  

If you want an exception for every day drunks who always call cops about everything wrong in the lives, fine. But for most citizens, if they're accused of something by police, they're better off NOT talking to police. As long as there is no confession, there is a chance of winning the case. If the person confesses, or gives the police something the police can mischaracterize (which they often do, whether by intent or inability to comprehend properly what they heard), that person has a difficult time prevailing.

Your solution is short term and depends upon (1) the police following up immediately on the info, and (2) believing you.

Thanks, but no thanks!

Folks, if you want to get arrested, listen to a cop. If you want to get out of jail, keep your mouth shut, don't talk to police or cell mates, call a bail bondsman, and call a lawyer.

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Sat Dec-26-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
2. if you want to listen to somebody who has

ACTUAL experience in this matter, then listen to me.

if you want to listen to somebody who is opining from a position of ignorance, listen to you...

TexasObserver  (1000+ posts)        Sat Dec-26-09 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
 
4. Cops follow instructions from other cops.  

Cops typically don't know or understand the Bill of Rights. They disrespect the constitution they're supposed to enforce and seek to get suspects to give up their rights. Listening to a cop will get a citizen in much trouble.

paulsby  (1000+ posts)      Sat Dec-26-09 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
 
6. wow. bigotry exposed

thanks for playing.

never ceases to amaze me the way the bigots come out when you mention cops.

it's no different than mentioning blacks to a bunch of KKK members.

the senseless, lying, bigoted vitriol comes right out.

thanks for exposing yourself

TexasObserver  (1000+ posts)        Sat Dec-26-09 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
 
9. Many cops actively violate the constitution daily. Do you deny this?

Do you deny that police are taught how to intimidate drivers and other citizens who assert their constitutional rights?

I invite you to read the writings of any well known cop turned author, and you'll see them say clearly that every cop has lied on the witness stand, that every cop lies to make probable cause at one time or another. These are super cops like Wambaugh, of course, or Serpico.

One suspects the Texas blobserver primitive has been in trouble before.

I was hoping the long-gone maudlin waif primitive would show up, but no.

The argument goes back and forth; it's well worth seeing in its original at the link.

proud2BlibKansan  (1000+ posts)        Sat Dec-26-09 11:05 AM
#19 TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Original message
 
97. If we were frequent fliers your advice might work

But in my experience most cops are assholes. My experience was being pulled over after doing nothing wrong and the cop asks what am I doing here. I say driving down the street. Cop gives me a speeding ticket and calls me a smart ass. But I wasn't speeding. So I filed a complaint. Turns out I was driving down a street where a drug dealer lived and the cop thought I was a customer. But I was a middle aged white woman just driving down the street. My ticket was thrown out when I filed the complaint.

If I had said nothing the cop probably would have searched my car and planted drugs in it.

Well, one suspects the Die alte Sau primitive was pulled over because she looks like what she is; a foul bitter nasty vengeful angry hate-filled older woman out to wreak some damage.

[BadCat]

I have NEVER heard of someone being "unarrested".
I call BS on the whole thing.

[Texacon]

I have been pulled over many, many times and with the exception of 2 cops I have been treated honestly and fairly.  I have been polite on all occasions and have been given respect (with the exception of two times). 

Sometimes I received a ticket (speeding) and sometimes I didn't.  One time I was threatened with jail but that is a story for another time.

Out of all the tickets I've received I deserved all but one of them.  I fought the one I didn't deserve and lost but it has been made up for many times over by being turned loose on tickets I had coming but didn't receive.

Yeah, I talk to the cops and I'm very polite when I do it.  Some don't need to be cops but others are simply doing a job.

KC

[mamacags]

I think Texasobserver is Joanne's son.  They have never ever done anything wrong and the mean old cops continue to harass him and find reasons to lock his stupid ass up.  Of course no mention of running from said cops or being busted with a bunch of narcotics.

[franksolich]

This is probably something similar with why the Die alte Sau, the dysmenopausal Kansas school teacher, attracted the attention of the police:

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/specials/weirdflorida/blog/2009/12/teacher_urinates_on_curb_after.html

Teacher urinates on curb after almost running over cop

[Carl]

and people helped themselves by telling the truth.

That thought and phrase just cost you dearly at the DUmp.

[The Village Idiot]

That thought and phrase just cost you dearly at the DUmp.

Imagine a hilarious TV series in the vain of 'My Name is Earl' where different idiots do idiotic things and then blame someone else and blame society for all their problems and rant about it online at the end of each episode, wildly changing the accounts of what happened.

[franksolich]

Imagine a hilarious TV series in the vain of 'My Name is Earl' where different idiots do idiotic things and then blame someone else and blame society for all their problems and rant about it online at the end of each episode, wildly changing the accounts of what happened.

Oh my, sir.

You just described Skins's island to a tee.

[thundley4]

Oh my, sir.

You just described Skins's island to a tee.

Time for you to write a screen play, Frank?

[The Village Idiot]

Oh my, sir.

You just described Skins's island to a tee.

"The following story has been ripped from web forums. The rant is real, most likely a lie, the back story is made up but much more likely than their story.... these are:

DUmmie Stories from the WebZone"

heh

[franksolich]

"The following story has been ripped from web forums. The rant is real, most likely a lie, the back story is made up but much more likely than their story.... these are:

DUmmie Stories from the WebZone"

heh

Damn, now you got me all hot and motivated, sir, to get started on "Martin Luther King Jr.'s Day with Doug's stupid ex-wife," and then "Valentine's Day with Chief S itting Bull, the bird-smacking stoned red-faced primitive."

But really, I have to finish the TOP TEN PRIMITIVES OF 2009 first; there's some surprises in it.

[The Village Idiot]

oh right, I have been meaning to look at the posts

[blitzkrieg_17]

I have NEVER heard of someone being "unarrested".
I call BS on the whole thing.

It *is* BS. The primitive is just repeating what he's seen on Law&Order.

[mamacags]

Time for you to write a screen play, Frank?

Didn't Frank write Idiocracy about the DUmp?  Every time I watch that movie I can picture all of the top twenty poster there as characters.

[The Village Idiot]

Didn't Frank write Idiocracy about the DUmp?  Every time I watch that movie I can picture all of the top twenty poster there as characters.

me too

[ColonialMarine0431]

"Yes Sir", "No Sir". That's my approach to Policemen, and I've never had a problem. I've even been let off a few times because of my USMC plate border and DoD sticker. "Ease up on the pedal Marine." "Yes Sir." Not that I go around speeding like a bat outta Hell, but on those long road trips one tends to go a bit fast. If the primitives treated the Police with respect they'd be amazed at how they would be treated with respect in return.

[franksolich]

If the primitives treated the Police with respect.....

Won't never happen, ever.