Author Topic: My pastor reflects on me as a church member?(say it isn't so--frenchiecat rant)  (Read 2683 times)

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Offline jtyangel

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I will be the first to admit that Rev. Wright, if one is chiefly concerned about how he makes Obama looks, for sure says things that would make one cringe (even me), but these are not Obama's words. And that is the bad part about this whole current fabricated situation.

Just to let you know, my husband is a minister and also the assistant to the pastor of our church, which is very similar to TUCC, as it is a large church 5,000 strong in a poor predominately Black community. The church is specifically located in that community because those are the people that need the help. Unlike Prosperity Churches that spend money on flashy CDs and programs and cushy chairs, and are oftentimes located in affluent neighborhoods, our church spends the tithes collected on the poorest in the community of which it is part of.

My Pastor, by some, could be judged as having quite the ego in some ways, as he has been head of our church for a long time, and he is 75 years old. The fact that he has had to run the church with a strong hand forces a bit of that. Churches can be real Peyton places, and my pastor tolerates very little nonsense. But his congregation loves this man, and reveres and respects him and strokes that ego quite a bit. The older ladies bring him gifts of food, and praises, and many of the Deacons and Deaconesses are quite in awe of him (he cared for his invalid wife for years before she recently passed away). The young people look up to him, much as they would their high school principal, but with more love.

What I see in Frenchie's post may be at the heart of so-called 'black churches' and it is the total inability to oust the 'ego' at the top of the church heirarchy. They stroke his ego? Doesn't really sound like someone who belongs at the head of a church body.

They are located by the people who need them most? Last time I checked salvation was for everyone, not just the poorest or those with the darkest skin color, but meh, maybe I missed a passage in the Bible somewhere.

Quote
H2O Man

I think it is curious that a progressive/liberal democratic discussion forum has people who are siding with those who attack a progressive community leader. I may not agree with Rev. Wright on everything, but I admire his work and his courage.

So, liberals and conservatives should never criticize people who they essentially agree with on other values? Wow, I'm glad I have principles because I don't tolerate crooks, pedophiles, or racists if they out themselves in my own party just because they are a 'conservative community leader'. This is a weakness in the liberal party and one that should have been supported before now and it is their total ineffectualness when it comes to confronting human garbage in their own party or calling people out on ideas that they claim to stand against, but won't because the person is a 'progressive community leader'. Liberals need to concentrate more on their ideals and principles and stop coddling people because they are 'progressives'. There is nothing progressive about a racist whether he be black, white, orange, or any shade in between.

This could be one to watch as the poor Hilary bunch are now piling on in. "Hallelujah" :-)

Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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I will be the first to admit that Rev. Wright, if one is chiefly concerned about how he makes Obama looks, for sure says things that would make one cringe (even me), but these are not Obama's words. And that is the bad part about this whole current fabricated situation.

Just to let you know, my husband is a minister and also the assistant to the pastor of our church, which is very similar to TUCC, as it is a large church 5,000 strong in a poor predominately Black community. The church is specifically located in that community because those are the people that need the help. Unlike Prosperity Churches that spend money on flashy CDs and programs and cushy chairs, and are oftentimes located in affluent neighborhoods, our church spends the tithes collected on the poorest in the community of which it is part of.

My Pastor, by some, could be judged as having quite the ego in some ways, as he has been head of our church for a long time, and he is 75 years old. The fact that he has had to run the church with a strong hand forces a bit of that. Churches can be real Peyton places, and my pastor tolerates very little nonsense. But his congregation loves this man, and reveres and respects him and strokes that ego quite a bit. The older ladies bring him gifts of food, and praises, and many of the Deacons and Deaconesses are quite in awe of him (he cared for his invalid wife for years before she recently passed away). The young people look up to him, much as they would their high school principal, but with more love.

What I see in Frenchie's post may be at the heart of so-called 'black churches' and it is the total inability to oust the 'ego' at the top of the church heirarchy. They stroke his ego? Doesn't really sound like someone who belongs at the head of a church body.

They are located by the people who need them most? Last time I checked salvation was for everyone, not just the poorest or those with the darkest skin color, but meh, maybe I missed a passage in the Bible somewhere.

Quote
H2O Man

I think it is curious that a progressive/liberal democratic discussion forum has people who are siding with those who attack a progressive community leader. I may not agree with Rev. Wright on everything, but I admire his work and his courage.

So, liberals and conservatives should never criticize people who they essentially agree with on other values? Wow, I'm glad I have principles because I don't tolerate crooks, pedophiles, or racists if they out themselves in my own party just because they are a 'conservative community leader'. This is a weakness in the liberal party and one that should have been supported before now and it is their total ineffectualness when it comes to confronting human garbage in their own party or calling people out on ideas that they claim to stand against, but won't because the person is a 'progressive community leader'. Liberals need to concentrate more on their ideals and principles and stop coddling people because they are 'progressives'. There is nothing progressive about a racist whether he be black, white, orange, or any shade in between.

This could be one to watch as the poor Hilary bunch are now piling on in. "Hallelujah" :-)
Actually Jty liberals are some of the biggest closet racists around,thats the reason for all the white guilt and the stupid message board apologies which to most intelligent people be they black or white is nothing more than grandstanding. They do everything in there power to keep black folks right where they are.
Call me "Asshole" One more time!

Offline jtyangel

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[/quote]Actually Jty liberals are some of the biggest closet racists around,thats the reason for all the white guilt and the stupid message board apologies which to most intelligent people be they black or white is nothing more than grandstanding. They do everything in there power to keep black folks right where they are.
[/quote]

Well, I understand this, as do you. The ideals of dems and even liberals in general must operate from the standpoint of blame rather then responsibility. Without the finger pointing, there is not monster to overcome--big business, conservatives, latent racism, latent sexism, etc etc. Without some boogeyman, the liberals are nothing.

Offline Lauri

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jetty, i think this may be the damage that the 'progressives' need to finally split their party wide open to the issues they face; namely racism and making sure that blacks always vote Dem, and stay ridiculously ignorant of what would help them the most; independant thought and support of the family as a whole.

the bottom line for them is this; when they learn to take responsibility for themselves in their own lives, they will see their 'leaders' for who they truly are.

it may not happen in this election but it appears that Obama is, unwittingly, forcing the issue to the tipping point - and at least the discussion is now starting for them.



Offline jtyangel

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jetty, i think this may be the damage that the 'progressives' need to finally split their party wide open to the issues they face; namely racism and making sure that blacks always vote Dem, and stay ridiculously ignorant of what would help them the most; independant thought and support of the family as a whole.

the bottom line for them is this; when they learn to take responsibility for themselves in their own lives, they will see their 'leaders' for who they truly are.

it may not happen in this election but it appears that Obama is, unwittingly, forcing the issue to the tipping point - and at least the discussion is now starting for them.




It's painful to watch isn't it? I think people do see it, but they are loathe to speak out against it. Take for example frenchiecat talking about her pastor's ego...she knows her own pastor is a huckster, but since he tows the line she believes, she gives this inconsistency with his position a pass. A preacher, while intense and energetic, should also be humble. She glosses over this inconsistency in character. People seem to have to do a lot to convince themselves that this is right. This segment of the black community don't seem to be able to see their similarities to whites in the early 60's who knew racism was wrong, but just towed the line too for hucksters and racists because it was comfortable. I think what troubles blacks is the realization that they are indeed human like everyone else. Everyone sins, even groups that historically faced persecution. It's a painful lesson to go from victim to a fallen soul with capacity for evil like everyone else.

Offline Lord Undies

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H2O Man

I think it is curious that a progressive/liberal democratic discussion forum has people who are siding with those who attack a progressive community leader. I may not agree with Rev. Wright on everything, but I admire his work and his courage.

H2O Man tomorrow:  "I may not agree with Timothy McVeigh on everything, but I admired his work (he could build a helluva bomb) and his courage (he could have blown himself up)."

**Coming up next - changing "Rev. Wright" to "Adolf Hitler" or "Pol Pot".   

Offline jtyangel

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H2O Man

I think it is curious that a progressive/liberal democratic discussion forum has people who are siding with those who attack a progressive community leader. I may not agree with Rev. Wright on everything, but I admire his work and his courage.

H2O Man tomorrow:  "I may not agree with Timothy McVeigh on everything, but I admired his work (he could build a helluva bomb) and his courage (he could have blown himself up)."

**Coming up next - changing "Rev. Wright" to "Adolf Hitler" or "Pol Pot".   

Precisely, Undies. You see the same thing I viewed in that comment! HI5!

Offline USA4ME

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If the DUmmies believe that this Trinity United Church had anything to do with the Christian faith, no wonder they're confused.  It's nothing more than this black liberation theology junk with an occasional mention of God and Jesus for good measure.

.
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Offline FlaGator

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jetty, i think this may be the damage that the 'progressives' need to finally split their party wide open to the issues they face; namely racism and making sure that blacks always vote Dem, and stay ridiculously ignorant of what would help them the most; independant thought and support of the family as a whole.

the bottom line for them is this; when they learn to take responsibility for themselves in their own lives, they will see their 'leaders' for who they truly are.

it may not happen in this election but it appears that Obama is, unwittingly, forcing the issue to the tipping point - and at least the discussion is now starting for them.




It's painful to watch isn't it? I think people do see it, but they are loathe to speak out against it. Take for example frenchiecat talking about her pastor's ego...she knows her own pastor is a huckster, but since he tows the line she believes, she gives this inconsistency with his position a pass. A preacher, while intense and energetic, should also be humble. She glosses over this inconsistency in character. People seem to have to do a lot to convince themselves that this is right. This segment of the black community don't seem to be able to see their similarities to whites in the early 60's who knew racism was wrong, but just towed the line too for hucksters and racists because it was comfortable. I think what troubles blacks is the realization that they are indeed human like everyone else. Everyone sins, even groups that historically faced persecution. It's a painful lesson to go from victim to a fallen soul with capacity for evil like everyone else.

That ego thing cracks me up. The Lord demands that we be humble before Him and before men. If the pastor has a problem with ego that he is not trying to deal with then he is not a good example to his flock and should not be leading them. I would suggest to her pastor that he find some humility on his own because if God has to do it for him, it will be painful. Just ask Jimmy Swaggart.
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Offline jtyangel

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jetty, i think this may be the damage that the 'progressives' need to finally split their party wide open to the issues they face; namely racism and making sure that blacks always vote Dem, and stay ridiculously ignorant of what would help them the most; independant thought and support of the family as a whole.

the bottom line for them is this; when they learn to take responsibility for themselves in their own lives, they will see their 'leaders' for who they truly are.

it may not happen in this election but it appears that Obama is, unwittingly, forcing the issue to the tipping point - and at least the discussion is now starting for them.




It's painful to watch isn't it? I think people do see it, but they are loathe to speak out against it. Take for example frenchiecat talking about her pastor's ego...she knows her own pastor is a huckster, but since he tows the line she believes, she gives this inconsistency with his position a pass. A preacher, while intense and energetic, should also be humble. She glosses over this inconsistency in character. People seem to have to do a lot to convince themselves that this is right. This segment of the black community don't seem to be able to see their similarities to whites in the early 60's who knew racism was wrong, but just towed the line too for hucksters and racists because it was comfortable. I think what troubles blacks is the realization that they are indeed human like everyone else. Everyone sins, even groups that historically faced persecution. It's a painful lesson to go from victim to a fallen soul with capacity for evil like everyone else.

That ego thing cracks me up. The Lord demands that we be humble before Him and before men. If the pastor has a problem with ego that he is not trying to deal with then he is not a good example to his flock and should not be leading them. I would suggest to her pastor that he find some humility on his own because if God has to do it for him, it will be painful. Just ask Jimmy Swaggart.

Stood out to me too, Flagator. In fact, her rant is much longer then what I posted and she talked about how because he's a 'good man' and in line with their beliefs, they stroke his ego occasionally and it all works out. There is something very wrong with that picture and part of this stems from the politicizing and social justice that runs rampant in black churches and is called 'inspiration of the Holy Ghost' versus real adherence and teaching to scripture. Like USA said, some 'black' churches have become little more then black liberation rhetoric with a nod or two to God and Jesus thrown in almost in the interest of keeping the legitimacy of the Christian church shrouding the actual rhetoric.

Offline Lauri

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jetty, i think this may be the damage that the 'progressives' need to finally split their party wide open to the issues they face; namely racism and making sure that blacks always vote Dem, and stay ridiculously ignorant of what would help them the most; independant thought and support of the family as a whole.

the bottom line for them is this; when they learn to take responsibility for themselves in their own lives, they will see their 'leaders' for who they truly are.

it may not happen in this election but it appears that Obama is, unwittingly, forcing the issue to the tipping point - and at least the discussion is now starting for them.




It's painful to watch isn't it? I think people do see it, but they are loathe to speak out against it. Take for example frenchiecat talking about her pastor's ego...she knows her own pastor is a huckster, but since he tows the line she believes, she gives this inconsistency with his position a pass. A preacher, while intense and energetic, should also be humble. She glosses over this inconsistency in character. People seem to have to do a lot to convince themselves that this is right. This segment of the black community don't seem to be able to see their similarities to whites in the early 60's who knew racism was wrong, but just towed the line too for hucksters and racists because it was comfortable. I think what troubles blacks is the realization that they are indeed human like everyone else. Everyone sins, even groups that historically faced persecution. It's a painful lesson to go from victim to a fallen soul with capacity for evil like everyone else.

we used to belong to a very 'uppity' church here and the pastor is black and fairly well known for stirring shit storms in the press (most notably at Mt Si high school recently, which was NOT his doing, but he relishes the fight every chance he gets) .. now, while I agree with some of his stances, his inability to be a bit more humble was the turning point for my family.

he is a great guy, a solid friend and someone you definitely want in your corner in a spiritual crisis... BUT, he started talking about his trips to the White House a bit too much. And though he has made an admirable turn around in his own life from racism as a young man, some of his attitude I just cannot abide by.

So I get this issue on a personal level, and even though I love the guy, he is not a great leader in my eyes because he wants the limelight just a bit too much. So, to answer Frenchiecat... YES, your pastor DOES reflect on you and your congregation. Just as your friends reflect on you. Its called being held accountable and speaking up when you see them headed down the wrong path. Otherwise, why are they your friends, family, congregation?

Offline delilahmused

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Just to let you know, my husband is a minister and also the assistant to the pastor of our church, which is very similar to TUCC, as it is a large church 5,000 strong in a poor predominately Black community. The church is specifically located in that community because those are the people that need the help. Unlike Prosperity Churches that spend money on flashy CDs and programs and cushy chairs, and are oftentimes located in affluent neighborhoods, our church spends the tithes collected on the poorest in the community of which it is part of.

Aren't "flashy CD's" what got Reverend Wright in trouble in the first place? I don't know where frenchiecat (what a perfect handle for someone with her arrogance and self-righteousness) shops but CD's are rather cheap at Walmart.

Cindie
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Offline jtyangel

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jetty, i think this may be the damage that the 'progressives' need to finally split their party wide open to the issues they face; namely racism and making sure that blacks always vote Dem, and stay ridiculously ignorant of what would help them the most; independant thought and support of the family as a whole.

the bottom line for them is this; when they learn to take responsibility for themselves in their own lives, they will see their 'leaders' for who they truly are.

it may not happen in this election but it appears that Obama is, unwittingly, forcing the issue to the tipping point - and at least the discussion is now starting for them.




It's painful to watch isn't it? I think people do see it, but they are loathe to speak out against it. Take for example frenchiecat talking about her pastor's ego...she knows her own pastor is a huckster, but since he tows the line she believes, she gives this inconsistency with his position a pass. A preacher, while intense and energetic, should also be humble. She glosses over this inconsistency in character. People seem to have to do a lot to convince themselves that this is right. This segment of the black community don't seem to be able to see their similarities to whites in the early 60's who knew racism was wrong, but just towed the line too for hucksters and racists because it was comfortable. I think what troubles blacks is the realization that they are indeed human like everyone else. Everyone sins, even groups that historically faced persecution. It's a painful lesson to go from victim to a fallen soul with capacity for evil like everyone else.

we used to belong to a very 'uppity' church here and the pastor is black and fairly well known for stirring shit storms in the press (most notably at Mt Si high school recently, which was NOT his doing, but he relishes the fight every chance he gets) .. now, while I agree with some of his stances, his inability to be a bit more humble was the turning point for my family.

he is a great guy, a solid friend and someone you definitely want in your corner in a spiritual crisis... BUT, he started talking about his trips to the White House a bit too much. And though he has made an admirable turn around in his own life from racism as a young man, some of his attitude I just cannot abide by.

So I get this issue on a personal level, and even though I love the guy, he is not a great leader in my eyes because he wants the limelight just a bit too much. So, to answer Frenchiecat... YES, your pastor DOES reflect on you and your congregation. Just as your friends reflect on you. Its called being held accountable and speaking up when you see them headed down the wrong path. Otherwise, why are they your friends, family, congregation?

I think it spells trouble when a pastor gets like this because if his ego is that big and his arrogance that obvious then it means he attributes his turnarounds to himself only. There seems to be an issue there with taking one's eye off of God and focusing it more on self. I'm sure we all do it at times, but if it comes to be where the pastor is the center of his church for his noteriety and he relishes in it...mmm...it's disconcerting.

Offline Lauri

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Just to let you know, my husband is a minister and also the assistant to the pastor of our church, which is very similar to TUCC, as it is a large church 5,000 strong in a poor predominately Black community. The church is specifically located in that community because those are the people that need the help. Unlike Prosperity Churches that spend money on flashy CDs and programs and cushy chairs, and are oftentimes located in affluent neighborhoods, our church spends the tithes collected on the poorest in the community of which it is part of.

Aren't "flashy CD's" what got Reverend Wright in trouble in the first place? I don't know where frenchiecat (what a perfect handle for someone with her arrogance and self-righteousness) shops but CD's are rather cheap at Walmart.

Cindie


CDs are indeed cheap to make.. a lot of ministers and pastors use them to record their sermons. our former pastor used to hand them out to new members after church .. cant think of a cheaper method of 'spreading the word' ..

Offline Lauri

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jetty, i think this may be the damage that the 'progressives' need to finally split their party wide open to the issues they face; namely racism and making sure that blacks always vote Dem, and stay ridiculously ignorant of what would help them the most; independant thought and support of the family as a whole.

the bottom line for them is this; when they learn to take responsibility for themselves in their own lives, they will see their 'leaders' for who they truly are.

it may not happen in this election but it appears that Obama is, unwittingly, forcing the issue to the tipping point - and at least the discussion is now starting for them.




It's painful to watch isn't it? I think people do see it, but they are loathe to speak out against it. Take for example frenchiecat talking about her pastor's ego...she knows her own pastor is a huckster, but since he tows the line she believes, she gives this inconsistency with his position a pass. A preacher, while intense and energetic, should also be humble. She glosses over this inconsistency in character. People seem to have to do a lot to convince themselves that this is right. This segment of the black community don't seem to be able to see their similarities to whites in the early 60's who knew racism was wrong, but just towed the line too for hucksters and racists because it was comfortable. I think what troubles blacks is the realization that they are indeed human like everyone else. Everyone sins, even groups that historically faced persecution. It's a painful lesson to go from victim to a fallen soul with capacity for evil like everyone else.

we used to belong to a very 'uppity' church here and the pastor is black and fairly well known for stirring shit storms in the press (most notably at Mt Si high school recently, which was NOT his doing, but he relishes the fight every chance he gets) .. now, while I agree with some of his stances, his inability to be a bit more humble was the turning point for my family.

he is a great guy, a solid friend and someone you definitely want in your corner in a spiritual crisis... BUT, he started talking about his trips to the White House a bit too much. And though he has made an admirable turn around in his own life from racism as a young man, some of his attitude I just cannot abide by.

So I get this issue on a personal level, and even though I love the guy, he is not a great leader in my eyes because he wants the limelight just a bit too much. So, to answer Frenchiecat... YES, your pastor DOES reflect on you and your congregation. Just as your friends reflect on you. Its called being held accountable and speaking up when you see them headed down the wrong path. Otherwise, why are they your friends, family, congregation?

I think it spells trouble when a pastor gets like this because if his ego is that big and his arrogance that obvious then it means he attributes his turnarounds to himself only. There seems to be an issue there with taking one's eye off of God and focusing it more on self. I'm sure we all do it at times, but if it comes to be where the pastor is the center of his church for his noteriety and he relishes in it...mmm...it's disconcerting.

it is definitely a problem for some pastors .. especially when politics is part of their notoriety.

if you're a local celebrity as well, i think the ego is just a bit too big to make them effective. our particular pastor wasnt all that interested when we were dealing with the gay indoctrination stuff going on in the high school. that was over four years ago.

then HIS daughter and daughter's high school went down that gay road this spring and all of a sudden, its a big deal to him. so, we realized that unless he could personally get something out of it (media time, perhaps) then he wasnt going to get involved. pastors should be tending to the community as a whole; not just their personal issues. i dont expect a pastor to stick their fingers into every problem, but being so blatantly passionate about what his daughter is going thru, but ignoring the other kids - that's just wrong.

Offline Lauri

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If the DUmmies believe that this Trinity United Church had anything to do with the Christian faith, no wonder they're confused.  It's nothing more than this black liberation theology junk with an occasional mention of God and Jesus for good measure.

.


this is their 'culture' and they are pissed that its been exposed on the national level.

can you imagine the world wide outrage if a white church talked the way Rev. Wright does ...?

Offline jtyangel

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If the DUmmies believe that this Trinity United Church had anything to do with the Christian faith, no wonder they're confused.  It's nothing more than this black liberation theology junk with an occasional mention of God and Jesus for good measure.

.


this is their 'culture' and they are pissed that its been exposed on the national level.

can you imagine the world wide outrage if a white church talked the way Rev. Wright does ...?

You know what I can't help think about? The many people who died or had their character impuned to fight for equality in the middle of the last century only to find that what has happened is a move towards more separation, not less...that their efforts gave voice and rise to powerful racist separatists just of a different color.  I'm actually glad this was exposed...I'm curious to see though if we as a nation have what it takes to confront the issues from both sides.

Offline PatriotGame

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H2O Man

I think it is curious that a progressive/liberal democratic discussion forum has people who are siding with those who attack a progressive community leader. I may not agree with Rev. Wright on everything, but I admire his work and his courage.

H2O Man tomorrow:  "I may not agree with Timothy McVeigh on everything, but I admired his work (he could build a helluva bomb) and his courage (he could have blown himself up)."

**Coming up next - changing "Rev. Wright" to "Adolf Hitler" or "Pol Pot".   

This fits the left so well:

Styx Lyrics
"Styx High Crimes And Misdemeanors (hip Hop-cracy) lyrics:\

They want you to believe
The unbelievable
They say you should accept
The unacceptable
Forget your common sense
It isn't sensible
...

They say we must forgive
The unforgivable
They want us to respect
The unrespectable
The pious and the hip
So hypocritical
...

See how they explain
The inexplicable
Watch 'em debate
The undebatable
Apparently a lie
Is never liable
...

They say we constitute
The Constitutional
With justice here for all
So justifiable
I'm tryin' not to laugh
But man it's laughable
High crimes and misdemeanors
...

           ►☼Liberals Are THE Root of ALL Evil!☼◄