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Offline rich_t

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Damn modern cars
« on: January 09, 2009, 03:39:20 PM »
At what point did car brake rotors become so poorly made/flimsy that they can't be "turned" to resuface?

Most of the cars that I have owned in my life have been older American made cars.  Early 90's and older models mostly (I don't like having a car payment so I have a tendancy to hang onto cars for a long time). 

I recall being able to have the brake rotors and drums turned on a lathe to "resurface" the part that comes in contact with the brake pads/shoes.  It used to cost about $100-$150 for all four wheels including parts, labor and resurfacing, less than that if I did the disassemble/reassemble myself.

I took my car in today for a break job and was told that you can't really resurface the rotors on newer cars, you have to buy new ones.  Cost me over $370 just for the front wheels.  The rotors are only guaranteed for 12 months.  WTF????

Any shade tree mechanics out there that can shed a little light on the topic?
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Offline RightCoast

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 06:10:52 PM »
At the point where grease monkeys and parts companies learned that they made more money by "saving weight to meet federal milage standards."

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Offline Eupher

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 06:20:51 PM »
About 18 months ago, when my Toyota mini-van had 70K on it, it was past due for a brake job.

I knew at the time that the rotors were too far gone to save, but my repair guy said that ordinarily with Toyota, you can turn the rotors down about 0.020 inch without a problem. Of course that's a pretty small tolerance, but that's what he said.

On my wife's Honda Accord, I made the mistake of failing to ask for genuine Honda repair parts. As a result, I had (and still have) shimmy in the front end despite the fact that the repair guy (a different one) has attempted to make it right twice now. There is no doubt in my mind that the shimmy is caused by either rotors slightly out of round, or defective pads. It isn't a huge problem now (after the 2nd attempt to fix it) and the car is 10 years old, but it's still irritating.

It's pricier, but no more of that so-called "OEM spec" parts for me. Gimme the factory stuff every time.
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Offline Thor

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 11:16:33 PM »
Somewhere around the mid to late 90s they started doing this crap. Less steel in the rotors= lower cost. Besides, with the replacement rotors factored in, they make more $$ for repair parts. It's a win-win situation for the manufacturers. Not so much for the consumers. The thing would be to learn how to do a brake job. They're really easy, especially with disk brakes.
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Offline Miss Mia

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2009, 03:58:07 PM »
Quote from: Thor on January 09, 2009, 11:16:33 PM
Somewhere around the mid to late 90s they started doing this crap. Less steel in the rotors= lower cost. Besides, with the replacement rotors factored in, they make more $$ for repair parts. It's a win-win situation for the manufacturers. Not so much for the consumers. The thing would be to learn how to do a brake job. They're really easy, especially with disk brakes.


I remember helping my dad change the brakes out a few times when I was a kid. 
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2009, 07:19:34 PM »
Quote from: Miss Mia on January 10, 2009, 03:58:07 PM

I remember helping my dad change the brakes out a few times when I was a kid. 

Yeah, me too. Even drum brakes (really ugly, messy work there).

I just don't wanna do that kinda work anymore.     :uhsure:         
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Offline Thor

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 08:17:48 PM »
Quote from: Eupher on January 10, 2009, 07:19:34 PM
Yeah, me too. Even drum brakes (really ugly, messy work there).

I just don't wanna do that kinda work anymore.     :uhsure:         

You just think that you're too good for that kind of stuff........



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"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

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Offline Peter3_1

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2009, 01:01:27 PM »
The usual no turning problem is that modern disc brakes are made of sintered steel. My Jeep was among the first (1990) to have the problem, and I asked Midas if anyone made a steel old style disc. They do, and I had them installed. They can be cut twice and work just fine.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2009, 02:49:52 PM »
Quote from: Eupher on January 10, 2009, 07:19:34 PM
Yeah, me too. Even drum brakes (really ugly, messy work there).

I just don't wanna do that kinda work anymore.     :uhsure:         

Same here.  I've done my share of brake jobs, I just no longer care to do the work myself.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2009, 02:56:37 PM »
Quote from: Thor on January 10, 2009, 08:17:48 PM
You just think that you're too good for that kind of stuff........


Yeah. It breaks my fingernails and EVERYTHING!  :-)
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Offline Thor

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2009, 06:38:16 PM »
Quote from: Eupher on January 11, 2009, 02:56:37 PM
Yeah. It breaks my fingernails and EVERYTHING!  :-)

lord forbid that you get your hands dirty or break a nail........   :o
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"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

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"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."-Thomas Jefferson

Offline rich_t

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2009, 07:19:29 PM »
Quote from: Thor on January 11, 2009, 06:38:16 PM
lord forbid that you get your hands dirty or break a nail........   :o

Dude...  Do you know what a good manicure costs these days?

LOL

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Offline Thor

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2009, 08:32:15 PM »
Quote from: rich_t on January 11, 2009, 07:19:29 PM
Dude...  Do you know what a good manicure costs these days?

LOL



Nope...... I do my own nails with a pair of dykes and a bastard file......
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"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

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"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Eupher

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2009, 10:17:17 PM »
Quote from: Thor on January 11, 2009, 08:32:15 PM
Nope...... I do my own nails with a pair of dykes and a bastard file......

Damn.  :o   It takes two dykes to chew through your nails? Are they, uh, "together" when they do that?

And what kinda bastard you got on file? The kind that narcs on you every time you get the dykes together?

 :hyper: 

 :-)
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Offline Thor

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 04:54:39 PM »
Dykes (the proper term until the term got word-jacked):





Bastard File:






I KNEW it would be YOU, Eupher, to be the first to make some snide comment.......


 :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:



 :rotf: :rotf:
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"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."- IBID

I AM your General Ne'er Do Well, Troublemaker & All Around Meanie!!

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Eupher

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 04:56:22 PM »
Quote from: Thor on January 12, 2009, 04:54:39 PM
Dykes (the proper term until the term got word-jacked):





Bastard File:






I KNEW it would be YOU, Eupher, to be the first to make some snide comment.......


 :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:



 :rotf: :rotf:


Oh. Okay, tools. Those things that break my nails.

Damn, I was worried about you, Thor! Dykes and bastards and all!

 :-)
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Adams E2 Euphonium, built in 2017
Boosey & Co. Imperial Euphonium, built in 1941
Edwards B454 bass trombone, built 2012
Bach Stradivarius 42OG tenor trombone, built 1992
Kanstul 33-T BBb tuba, built 2011
Fender Precision Bass Guitar, built ?
Mouthpiece data provided on request.

Offline Peter3_1

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 08:59:07 PM »
Dykes are now "side cutters" , bastards are still bastards
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Offline RobJohnson

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Re: Damn modern cars
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2009, 01:01:59 AM »
Quote from: rich_t on January 09, 2009, 03:39:20 PM
At what point did car brake rotors become so poorly made/flimsy that they can't be "turned" to resuface?

Most of the cars that I have owned in my life have been older American made cars.  Early 90's and older models mostly (I don't like having a car payment so I have a tendancy to hang onto cars for a long time). 

I recall being able to have the brake rotors and drums turned on a lathe to "resurface" the part that comes in contact with the brake pads/shoes.  It used to cost about $100-$150 for all four wheels including parts, labor and resurfacing, less than that if I did the disassemble/reassemble myself.

I took my car in today for a break job and was told that you can't really resurface the rotors on newer cars, you have to buy new ones.  Cost me over $370 just for the front wheels.  The rotors are only guaranteed for 12 months.  WTF????

Any shade tree mechanics out there that can shed a little light on the topic?

Some places like to sell alot of parts, others like to sell labor...

I have found brake jobs done at dealerships are usually alot less expensive then the muffler and tire stores...
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