Author Topic: New Member to ConservativeCave  (Read 37185 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #150 on: June 23, 2013, 02:33:43 AM »
Lex...not even your college profs allow you to use Wiki as a source because of it's lack of credibility.

Same applies here.
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Offline Lex

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #151 on: June 23, 2013, 12:32:40 PM »
That type of viewpoint isn't valid from where I stand. The worker is given a job to do and is paid for that work based upon an agreed wage (I'm hiring for this job, this is what it pays, I'm offering the job to you, do you want it?).  If its exploitation, it certainly one of the oddest forms of exploitation since the worker agreed to the terms.  You can't agree to the terms and then complain you're being used if everyone is doing what they said they would do. Well, I guess you can but it doesn't really mean much.

But yes, a business is open in order to make a profit.  Exploiting workers? If one means "to make productive use of," then I agree, that's the whole point of hiring people, to make productive use of their work and, in turn, pay them as you both have agreed.  If one means "to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage," well it's hard to take advantage of someone when you told them what the job entailed and pay them accordingly as you both agreed.

"Finally, the [classical] liberal state came to offer us economic slavery, saying to the workers, with tragic sarcasm: 'You are free to work as you wish; no one can compel you to accept specified conditions. Since we are the rich, we offer you the conditions that please us; as free citizens, you are not obliged to accept them if you do not want to; but as poor citizens, if you do not accept them you will die of hunger, surrounded of course by the utmost liberal dignity.'"- Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, What the Falange Wants
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Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #152 on: June 23, 2013, 12:38:01 PM »
"Finally, the [classical] liberal state came to offer us economic slavery, saying to the workers, with tragic sarcasm: 'You are free to work as you wish; no one can compel you to accept specified conditions. Since we are the rich, we offer you the conditions that please us; as free citizens, you are not obliged to accept them if you do not want to; but as poor citizens, if you do not accept them you will die of hunger, surrounded of course by the utmost liberal dignity.'"- Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, What the Falange Wants


Can you describe an alternative?
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #153 on: June 23, 2013, 12:39:34 PM »
"Finally, the [classical] liberal state came to offer us economic slavery, saying to the workers, with tragic sarcasm: 'You are free to work as you wish; no one can compel you to accept specified conditions. Since we are the rich, we offer you the conditions that please us; as free citizens, you are not obliged to accept them if you do not want to; but as poor citizens, if you do not accept them you will die of hunger, surrounded of course by the utmost liberal dignity.'"- Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, What the Falange Wants

And in typical Liberal fashion you quote the founding member of the Spanish National Socialist Party.

Tell me...how successful was this Spanish Socialist?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=83285.0

Offline txradioguy

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #154 on: June 23, 2013, 12:40:29 PM »

Can you describe an alternative?

Lex doesn't want/see an alternative.  His only answer is to follow Marx.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Creator of the largest Fight Club thread ever!

http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=83285.0

Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #155 on: June 23, 2013, 12:47:49 PM »
I really don't have a problem with what Jose is saying because it's true.

To paraphrase he is saying yeah I got the money so I am starting a business, if you don't like the way I run my business look elsewhere for employment.

I got no problem with that, the problem I do have is that I don't know if I am agreeing with Jose or disagreeing with him.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #156 on: June 23, 2013, 12:53:14 PM »
I really don't have a problem with what Jose is saying because it's true.

To paraphrase he is saying yeah I got the money so I am starting a business, if you don't like the way I run my business look elsewhere for employment.

I got no problem with that, the problem I do have is that I don't know if I am agreeing with Jose or disagreeing with him.

This should help you decide:

Quote
The political canon of Falange resembled that of Italy's Partito Nazionale Fascista. It shared its dislike of Marxism and its contempt for democracy. It sought to bridge the gap between patriotism and Marxist internationalism by rejecting the concept of class warfare while conceding the exploitation of the working class under capitalism. Primo de Rivera proposed that the creation of a hierarchical trade-union hegemony under Falangist control would guarantee the robust protection of every honest worker. Additionally the Falangist platform called for extensive agrarian reforms, for the nationalization of the banking system and for the suppression of all political parties. Until the desired establishment of one-party rule Falange preferred the formalities of a liberal democracy

Sounds like Obama and the Liberal Democrats...and you're not sure if you disagree with it?

And how in Gods name can you possibly agree with the rantings of a National Socialist and consider yourself a Conservative?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=83285.0

Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #157 on: June 23, 2013, 12:58:01 PM »
This should help you decide:

Sounds like Obama and the Liberal Democrats...and you're not sure if you disagree with it?

And how in Gods name can you possibly agree with the rantings of a National Socialist and consider yourself a Conservative?

Context is everything isn't it? I guess my nuance translator is on the fritz.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
- Napoleon Bonaparte

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #158 on: June 23, 2013, 01:02:08 PM »
Context is everything isn't it? I guess my nuance translator is on the fritz.

Yeah it is.  ANd our n00b purposely left out the important bits and only included the romantic image of the hero fighting for the worker.

Marx and Lenin did the same thing.  It was only when you took a closer look at their plans that you realized they were anything but in the best interest of the people they claimed to stand up for.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Creator of the largest Fight Club thread ever!

http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=83285.0

Offline here

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #159 on: June 23, 2013, 01:04:15 PM »
Lex...not even your college profs allow you to use Wiki as a source because of it's lack of credibility.

Same applies here.

Hey, I resent that -my writing is referenced in Wiki.

Offline obumazombie

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #160 on: June 23, 2013, 01:08:40 PM »
I have observed wiki to be very slanted. I totally discount all wiki references now.
There were only two options for gender. At last count there are at least 12, according to libs. By that standard, I'm a male lesbian.

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #161 on: June 23, 2013, 01:24:57 PM »
I have observed wiki to be very slanted. I totally discount all wiki references now.

As do I, when I saw the aforementioned reference :wink:; It was a topic I knew nothing about 

Offline txradioguy

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #162 on: June 23, 2013, 01:53:58 PM »
Hey, I resent that -my writing is referenced in Wiki.

LOL! Then I would say that your writing referenced in Wiki is the only thing that you can be 100% certain of as far as accuracy.   :-)
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Creator of the largest Fight Club thread ever!

http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=83285.0

Offline Bad Dog

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #163 on: June 23, 2013, 01:56:55 PM »
LOL! Then I would say that your writing referenced in Wiki is the only thing that you can be 100% certain of as far as accuracy.   :-)

Or....not.

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #164 on: June 23, 2013, 02:00:42 PM »
Or....not.

I need to reread it sometime but it brought in a ton of unwanted attention -I'd love to write about it but alas, I need to stay anon.     

Offline Eupher

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #165 on: June 23, 2013, 02:04:04 PM »
Hey, I resent that -my writing is referenced in Wiki.

There are useful writings in Wikipedia....

...in the references under the main article.
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Offline here

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #166 on: June 23, 2013, 02:05:30 PM »
There are useful writings in Wikipedia....

...in the references under the main article.
Hmm, that was my case

Offline txradioguy

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #167 on: June 23, 2013, 02:16:21 PM »
I need to reread it sometime but it brought in a ton of unwanted attention -I'd love to write about it but alas, I need to stay anon.     

I wish I had chosen that path back when I was younger.  Trying to put the Genie back in the bottle is damn near impossible.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=83285.0

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #168 on: June 23, 2013, 02:32:14 PM »
I wish I had chosen that path back when I was younger.  Trying to put the Genie back in the bottle is damn near impossible.

Yes, that is so true but warning people doesn't make them wary -I did not heed it myself. 

I can only say that the social media and government collaboration, will be continuously perfected and will make any privacy effort moot.

One day, we will all have our own wiki page and guess what?  If you are the subject, they don't let you edit it because you "not an expert" on yourself.

Offline USA4ME

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #169 on: June 23, 2013, 06:15:58 PM »
"Finally, the [classical] liberal state came to offer us economic slavery, saying to the workers, with tragic sarcasm: 'You are free to work as you wish; no one can compel you to accept specified conditions. Since we are the rich, we offer you the conditions that please us; as free citizens, you are not obliged to accept them if you do not want to; but as poor citizens, if you do not accept them you will die of hunger, surrounded of course by the utmost liberal dignity.'"- Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, What the Falange Wants

Cute, but no cookie.

The above gives the impression that the rich dictate the terms; that one is free to do as one chooses, but the only choices are to accept or die. That world is a little too black and white and disregards the various shades of gray that existed then, and that exist now.

Funny how there's millions of us who aren't "the rich" and yet we have lived for centuries without the above having entrapped us. For me, I have no animosity towards the rich. They can do what they want and I'll do what I want. Anytime our paths have crossed, we either worked out what was mutually beneficial or we shook hands and parted ways.

Your little statement at the beginning of (paraphrased) "I don't know where I stand politically" wasn't honest. If you want to believe you're a slave to this corporate oligarchy you believe exists, then good luck and best to you.

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« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 07:02:28 PM by USA4ME »
Because third world peasant labor is a good thing.

Offline Lex

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #170 on: June 23, 2013, 06:23:02 PM »
And in typical Liberal fashion you quote the founding member of the Spanish National Socialist Party.

Spanish National Socialist Party? First off, you don't know anything about Falangism if you call it a National Socialist party. Falangism did have a racial hierarchy, but Francisco Franco did not persecute others of "inferior" races, and actually promoted race-mixing. Franco's regime fought against Marxists, anarchists, and other communists, so I think calling them Falangists socialists is quite retarded. Jose may have had criticisms of capitalism, but that doesn't mean he advocated the complete opposite economic system. If you think it does then I ask you to research Francoist Spain.
"Hate must be born from Love." - Otto Strasser

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Offline ColonelCarrots

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #171 on: June 23, 2013, 07:22:29 PM »
If you hate fundamentalist Christians, you're going to looooove me.

First, What's wrong with them?

Second, Why the hate from the party of tolerance?

Third, If the left is so tolerant why do fundamentalists need to change?

Offline txradioguy

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #172 on: June 24, 2013, 01:09:39 PM »
Spanish National Socialist Party? First off, you don't know anything about Falangism if you call it a National Socialist party. Falangism did have a racial hierarchy, but Francisco Franco did not persecute others of "inferior" races, and actually promoted race-mixing. Franco's regime fought against Marxists, anarchists, and other communists, so I think calling them Falangists socialists is quite retarded.

No idiot.  YOU are the retard.

Quote
Spanish Falangism in the Falange's original manifesto called the Twenty-Seven Points declared Falangism to support: the unity of Spain and the elimination of regional separatism; the establishment of a dictatorship led by the Falange; utilizing violence to regenerate Spain; promoted the revival and development of the Spanish Empire; a social revolution to create: a national syndicalist economy that creates national syndicates of both employees and employers to mutually organize and control the economic activity, agrarian reform, industrial expansion, respect for private property with the exception of nationalizing credit facilities to prevent capitalist usury.[5] It supports criminalization of strikes by employees and lockouts by employers as illegal acts.[6] Falangism supports the state to have jurisdiction of setting wages.

And the sources:

^ Stanley G. Payne. A History of Fascism, 1914-1945. University of Wisconsin Press, 1995. Pp. 263.
^ Martin Blinkhorn. Fascists and Conservatives: The Radical Right and the Establishment in Twentieth-Century Europe. Reprinted edition. Oxon, England, UK: Routledge, 1990, 2001. Pp. 10
^ a b Stanley Payne. A History of Fascism, 1914-1945. Madison, Wisconsin, USA: University of Wisconsin Pres, 1995. Pp. 261.
^ Sheelagh M. Ellwood. Spanish fascism in the Franco era: Falange Española de las Jons, 1936-76. Macmillan, 1987. Pp. 99-101.
^ a b Hans Rogger, Eugen Weber. The European Right. Berkeley and Los Angeles, California, USA: University of California Press; London, England, UK: University of Cambridge Press, 1965. Pp. 195.
^ a b Benjamin Welles. Spain: the gentle anarchy. Praeger, 1965. Pp. 124.

Take it up with the authors.


Quote
Jose may have had criticisms of capitalism, but that doesn't mean he advocated the complete opposite economic system.

Again...from the experts:

Quote
On October 29, 1933, he launched Falange Española ("Spanish Phalanx"), a nationalist party inspired by Fascism.

 
Quote
If you think it does then I ask you to research Francoist Spain.

I've studied plenty about it.  And what I've read does nothing to change what I said.

You're wrong.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=83285.0

Offline obumazombie

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #173 on: June 24, 2013, 01:11:05 PM »
^Impossible for a lib to admit.
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Offline CG6468

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Re: New Member to ConservativeCave
« Reply #174 on: June 24, 2013, 02:16:23 PM »
Trying to make sense to a liberal is  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:
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