How are we going to handle obamacare?

[ColonialMarine0431]

What?  Are you kidding?  DC's Capitol Hill is the site of the country's oldest continuously operational whorehouse.

Yes. But now it's so blatant.  The politicians don't even PRETEND anymore that their votes aren't for sale.

[Oceander]

Unless you are self employed you won`t have a chance...called withholding,I have no doubt an employer will be required to know your insurance status.
You can lie I guess and say you do but also have no doubt proof of such will be part of the tax return.

Not to be a wet rag on that issue but it will not be in our hands.

Of course it is, overstate your withholding allowances so that it balances out.  In general, you won't be questioned on the number of withholding allowances you claim unless you claim 10 or more.

[thundley4]

Of course it is, overstate your withholding allowances so that it balances out.  In general, you won't be questioned on the number of withholding allowances you claim unless you claim 10 or more.

I'm pretty sure that they can get you for that also. They'd most likely investigate why the number of dependents shot up for someone.

[Oceander]

I'm pretty sure that they can get you for that also. They'd most likely investigate why the number of dependents shot up for someone.

No, not really.  I switched jobs mid-year once, back when I was earning well over the max. amount for the employment tax, and would have ended up basically paying double the payroll taxes if I hadn't used the withholding allowances to manage my total tax withholdings to avoid giving Uncle Sugar too much of a free loan.  I probably filed four or five different W-4s, and ended up claiming additional withholding allowances for a total of about 6 (back when I was single), and never heard anything from anyone.

The IRS regulations used to require employers to send in W-4s that claimed 10 or more withholding allowances to a special IRS office, and gave employers the incentive to ignore those withholding allowances (which they can do), but those regulations got dropped a while back.

That being said, claiming 20 withholding allowances will probably trigger something somewheres, but in general, most of us can probably manage to reduce income tax withholding enough to offset the Obamatax without triggering any sort of an automated red-flag.

[thundley4]

If you deliberately and knowingly make false claims on your Form W-4 in an attempt to reduce or eliminate proper tax withholding, you may have to pay a penalty of $500 if:

You make statements or claim allowances on your W-4 that reduce the amount of tax withheld.
You have no reasonable basis for the statments or allowances at the time you fill out the W-4.
There is also a criminal penalty for supplying false information on your W-4. The penalty upon conviction can be a fine of up to $1,000 or up to one year imprisonment, or both.

If the mandates are passed, I'll bet the IRS will be targeting people that change their W-4.

[Carl]

Of course it is, overstate your withholding allowances so that it balances out.  In general, you won't be questioned on the number of withholding allowances you claim unless you claim 10 or more.

I am sort of pragmatic and have a notion that there will be or are more then a few redundant measures to check one.

Citizen...list your carrier and policy number.
Carrier provide a list and SS number of all insured.

Can`t imagine it is that difficult to have software to cross check and presume that is what is done now with 1099s filed on a person.

[Oceander]

If the mandates are passed, I'll bet the IRS will be targeting people that change their W-4.

The regulations would have to be changed, and that won't happen for at least the first year, which is precisely when this tactic needs to be put into place.

[GOP Congress]

In general, I'm not thrilled at the idea of protesting through currently illegal tax withholding. More importantly, I believe the time is right for a proper full-frontal attack on totalitarianism through the elections. More importantly, though, is for the politicians to communicate to their consituency on why such taxes are oppressive, and we have a far better chance in the upcoming cycle.

But the tax withholding scheme, while emotionally popular, will have even less effect on policy than third party political organizations, for promoting our ideals.

[Lacarnut]

If the mandates are passed, I'll bet the IRS will be targeting people that change their W-4.

Plus those in business that incomes drop drastically. We could call it the Geithner effect or working shorter hours.  

[Oceander]

In general, I'm not thrilled at the idea of protesting through currently illegal tax withholding. More importantly, I believe the time is right for a proper full-frontal attack on totalitarianism through the elections. More importantly, though, is for the politicians to communicate to their consituency on why such taxes are oppressive, and we have a far better chance in the upcoming cycle.

But the tax withholding scheme, while emotionally popular, will have even less effect on policy than third party political organizations, for promoting our ideals.

Possibly, possibly not.  It all depends on how many people are willing to put their necks on the line to do it - because all of the first lot, and many of the rest, will be assessed deficiencies and will have to run the whole gauntlet of collections and whatnot.  Still, it could be managed if enough people participated.  Another means to help mitigate the potential negative consequences would be to leave a deficiency in your withholding, and then to make what's called a "deposit in the nature of a cash bond" - which basically stops the interest on a deficiency running, but doesn't get counted as a payment of the tax, and doesn't permit the Treasury to just take the money and run.

[GOP Congress]

It all depends on how many people are willing to put their necks on the line to do it - because all of the first lot, and many of the rest, will be assessed deficiencies and will have to run the whole gauntlet of collections and whatnot.

Well, that's a wee bit complicated for me to be honest, not to mention that the fact I would have to spend an inordinate amount of time devising my own involvement, lining up my attorneys, and ultimately risking my freedom despite our ultimate morally superior position, is not exactly a good ROI. It makes for good theater, but lousy policy.

But think of all the amount of effort it takes to do all of this tax evasion. If everyone who would consider such a scheme would instead put the same effort to finding and running candidates for office who would eliminate this nonsense in the first place, it would have a far greater effect, and frankly, more satisfying in the long run. Keep in mind that we STILL have to perform this step after the mass arrests in the first place.

[Carl]

An anecdotal experience for what ever that is worth.

Back in 1992 (I think) father was still alive and I claimed him as a dependent (lifetime farmer so SS was not a lot and unable to drive in his mid 80s etc.)
I was basically providing for the finances of the home.
He sold off a 5 acre lot for not a lot of money but enough that for that year the deduction was disallowed.
I didn`t realize that but the IRS found it and told me.
Oh well..paid the amount due and was informed that the state would be calling too.

They had 3 years and 3 months if I remember correctly to notify me of tax deficiency or short of an audit the time would run out on collecting the couple hundred bucks.
Being a obstinate sort I figured what the heck,let em come looking.

Two weeks from the deadline I got the notice.
I presume their was some mechanism in place either computer or bodily to review all such issues.
Paid that bill and have gone on with life but the bottom line is that anyone that thinks they are going to beat the IRS..good luck with that.

[bkg]

If the mandates are passed, I'll bet the IRS will be targeting people that change their W-4.

Didn't Obama spend $300M on additional IRS agents? Does anyone really think it was to go after the Swiss bank accounts? It was laying the foundation.

[thundley4]

Didn't Obama spend $300M on additional IRS agents? Does anyone really think it was to go after the Swiss bank accounts? It was laying the foundation.

Seems like this has been in the planning stages for months.

The IRS is reportedly facing a 25% revenue shortfall for the 2008 tax year—that's in addition to the current $345 billion tax gap. The Obama administration announced in May 2009 that it would like to hire 800 additional IRS agents and quadruple funding for tax compliance efforts over the next five years. All the facts point to a drastic increase in personnel and operating budgets aimed at collecting additional tax revenue in 2009 and beyond.

LegalZoom

Then there is a recent revision to an Executive Order regarding Interpol by Lord Zero which expands their powers and authority on US soil, which could be nothing more than allowing interpol to go after tax payers that overseas shelters.

[Oceander]

Just so everyone's clear on the concept, increasing your withholding allowances is not the same thing as claiming fake dependents (which I would never, ever, in a million years suggest anyone do), nor is it tax evasion.

[bkg]

Just so everyone's clear on the concept, increasing your withholding allowances is not the same thing as claiming fake dependents (which I would never, ever, in a million years suggest anyone do), nor is it tax evasion.

I wish we had to write a check at the end of the year... Rather, the week before election day.

[Carl]

I wish we had to write a check at the end of the year... Rather, the week before election day.

That is part of why withholding came about...never going to put that horse back in the barn.

[bkg]

That is part of why withholding came about...never going to put that horse back in the barn.

I know. I agree. I weep.

[Oceander]

I wish we had to write a check at the end of the year... Rather, the week before election day.

Actually, in many respects, withholding did make it easier for a lot of people; it is a sad fact of life that many people cannot budget a reserve for future expenses such as taxes.

That being said, withholding is like a firearm - a device that can be either a really useful tool, or a deadly weapon, depending solely on the intent behind the hands that use it.

[DefiantSix]

Time for Drastic Measures
December 24, 7:46 AM
Macon County Conservative Examiner
Robert Moon

Now that we have been painted into a corner with the passage of this Constitution-trampling explosion of government, we have only 4 options left before things get ugly:

1) Vote them out in 2010. This option requires much patience and will not actually mean anything unless those elected actually reverse all the spending, bailouts and takeovers.

Most likely, Democrats will be punished for a few years while Republicans ride the tidal wave of public outrage into office, at which point they will throw us some symbolic scraps from the table, rather than making a serious commitment to uprooting federal tyranny. It is absolutely critical that we get actual conservatives into office and eject the RINOs in 2010.

2) Legal challenge in the courts. There is a chance that the Supreme Court could reverse this law based on the "Commerce Clause" debate (a few states being bribed and blackmailed into submission at the expense of all the others).

3) Nullification. This is where states stand up for their 10th Amendment rights and declare that, since this law is blatantly unconstitutional, they refuse to acknowledge that it was even passed.

And no, the Founders never intended for the federal government to be the sole determiner of the size and scope of its own power. State nullification was always intended as a natural check against federal encroachments.

4) Civil disobedience (the only option that requires no waiting). The politicians are now coming home to face their constituents. Escalate things by organizing a disruptive demonstration, like a sit-in.

While government creates 111 new federal bureaucracies and destroys the free market system that 84% of us are happy with, the politicians have exempted themselves from the rationed, inferior care the rest of us are left with. But they cannot exempt themselves from us.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence, when government becomes adversarial to the people, it is both the right and the responsibility of the people to rise up and "alter or abolish" that government. Government gets its power from us.

It is time to step up and take back what is ours.

An excellent editorial on the subject.