I am concerned about the new 21-23 year olds entering the workforce

[Servonaut]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3166230

TwixVoy (67 posts)      Wed Apr-16-08 01:58 PM
Original message
I am concerned about the new 21-23 year olds entering the workforce
 Advertisements [?]Is anyone else concerned about the new 21-23 year old college grads who are entering the work force?

I work at a major retailer. Upper store level management (now by corporate policy) consists entirely of new college graduates, many of them while having graduated college have never actually held down a job before.

A great number of long time upper level management (many of whom did a damn good job and worked up from the bottom) who were older in age - usually near retirement age - were all pushed out of their jobs in the last 2-3 years to make way for these new 23 year old college grads.

I have to say as an older person in middle management who started at the bottom as well I find them very very hard to work with. Many of them still come across to me like irresponsible teenagers. They show up late for work, they treat everyone below them like shit, they actually make comments to our cart pushers like "Hey guys no reason to get a college degree when you can push carts!", I am talking real ass hole "I am better than all because of my degree" attitudes. And because they are in upper management no one holds them accountable. Well, our DM is theory should be but he only visits once a month for 30 minutes and it's easy to put on a show.

Many of them have also never had a job before - certainly never a job making low wages. They have literally next to no work ethic. They will be happy to sit in the office talking about american idol or some other BS, or order lunch every day and take 2-3 hour lunch breaks. They are so out of touch I have even heard some of them ask "Why are they so unhappy getting paid 7/hr? They don't have to pay taxes like we do". I even recently talked to one of our 23 year old "college grads" about what was going on with the economy. I told her the fed dropped the rate again and she looked at me like she was confused and said "What rate?". That's 4 years in college talking right there.

Most employees now come to us in middle management with all problems telling us they don't trust anyone above us because they are constantly working to screw them over. (and it's true)

I have noticed a serious drop in both morale and in the success of our store since the older vets were kicked out. It really makes me sad that people with 30+ years of experience and dedication are being given the shaft to make way for 23 year olds with an ego problem and no work ethic.

I know this is just retail, but is anyone else noticing this happening in other fields as well? I think giving older people the boot and replacing them with 23 year olds who have never proven themselves before, but have a degree in hand is a serious mistake. Some of them are actually competent, but a large amount of them are not in my experience thus far.

niyad  (1000+ posts)      Wed Apr-16-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. welcome to DU-- it's cheaper to hire 23 yo/s, alas. same thing happening many places

liberal4truth (309 posts)      Wed Apr-16-08 02:09 PM
Original message
I am one of the 50-somethings and I don't care much about them either.....
 ..we were lucky to have Great Depression/ WW II parents, so we know how bad things can get.

These foolish kids don't have a clue how it really works in the real world......but they will soon enough.

Many of them will never make it to 50, the poor, self-centered ego-maniacs.

liberal4truth (309 posts)      Wed Apr-16-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. I feel sorry for them. They are going to get eaten up in a year or two by this recession, with no..   clue on how to survive it. Many will commit suicide or turn to crime as a way to "live".  I think many of us in the "Boomer generation" are very glad that we won't have to live in the ugly mess this world is becoming.

 

TwixVoy (67 posts)      Wed Apr-16-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Well you are right about that
 Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 02:07 PM by TwixVoy
They frequently are already complaining about having zero dollars in the bank from what I overhear. There is also one who constantly complains about her credit card bills, but just the other day came in to charge a 42" TV on her card. Idiot. This is the first time many of them have actually made "real" money and they have no clue how to manage it.

TheWraith (1000+ posts)      Wed Apr-16-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yeah, those lazy, elitist college graduates really are something.
 With their bongs and their clueless, youthful liberalism, and none of them work for a living!

Maybe what you had to say just came off badly... but it comes off really badly. One thing your age and wisdom should have taught you is not to broad-brush entire groups of people.

Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

I guess I should be worried about some young whippersnapper taking my job




 

[franksolich]

I saw this bonfire on Skins's island this morning, but didn't pay attention, hoping to find a primitive familiar to me.

Isn't this the primitive who minutes before, or minutes after, built a bonfire about going from an $80,000+ job to a minimum-wage job?

[jendf]

Every generation sees the next generation as a bunch of miscreants. This is nothing new. But as history has shown, there are heroes and inspirations of all ages.

[NHSparky]

I saw this bonfire on Skins's island this morning, but didn't pay attention, hoping to find a primitive familiar to me.

Isn't this the primitive who minutes before, or minutes after, built a bonfire about going from an $80,000+ job to a minimum-wage job?

Don't question their motives, just try to understand their FEELINGS...

I fear for kids, yes--because the liberal public-school/socialist indoctrination system has left them woefully unprepared to enter the workforce.  Only through THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL EFFORT do they stand any chance of getting anywhere.

Read that again, DUmmies--"da gub'mint" will not make them into anything.  They have to do it themselves.

[jtyangel]

Every generation sees the next generation as a bunch of miscreants. This is nothing new. But as history has shown, there are heroes and inspirations of all ages.

Absolutely, Jen. I find it amusing how a bunch of aging boomers(liberals seem to squirm the most over this) don't like the next few generations out(just like their grandparents talked about them ) They hated my generation too(their children--gen xers). Each generation has a unique culture to it and brings something to the table. Something I appreciate is that almost every generation at 20, 21, 22 thinks their sh*t does not stink. Realizing the world doesn't revolve around you takes life experience and time. Young 20 somethings will get there and deserve the same opportunity the boomers had to *think* they are the center of the universe.  That sounds terrible..I don't mean it that way, just the fact that the DUmmies can't seem to remember that they were just as egocentric and untouchable at that age too and the fact that it gets their knickers in knots to realize they weren't the first or last generation to act...well...young. LOL

[jukin]

I hate to admit it but I'm worried too.

They are getting out of college with useless degrees in the arts and won't have much luck getting those prized government jobs that those kind of degrees used to get. 

I'm not worried for any of them coming out with science degrees.

[DixieBelle]

^Agreed. But, these Millennials worry me.

They were raised by doting parents who told them they are special, played in little leagues with no winners or losers, or all winners. They are laden with trophies just for participating and they think your business-as-usual ethic is for the birds. And if you persist in the belief you can, take your job and shove it.

.....

"Some of them are the greatest generation. They're more hardworking. They have these tools to get things done," she explains. "They are enormously clever and resourceful. Some of the others are absolutely incorrigible. It's their way or the highway. The rest of us are old, redundant, should be retired. How dare we come in, anyone over 30. Not only can't be trusted, can't be counted upon to be, sort of, coherent."

Salzman says today's manager must be half shrink and half diplomat.

.....

"They have climbed Mount Everest. They've been down to Machu Picchu to help excavate it. But they've never punched a time clock. They have no idea what it's like to actually be in an office at nine o'clock, with people handing them work. And oh, by the way, possibly asking them to stay late in the evening, or their weekends," Crane says.

She maintains that while this generation has extraordinary technical skills, childhoods filled with trophies and adulation didn't prepare them for the cold realities of work.

"You now have a generation coming into the workplace that has grown up with the expectation that they will automatically win, and they'll always be rewarded, even for just showing up," Crane says.
.....

And dear old mom isn’t just your landlord; she is your agent as well. "Career services departments are complaining about the parents who are coming to update their child's resume. And in fact, you go to employers, and they're starting to express concern now with the parents who will phone HR, saying, 'But my little Susie or little Johnny didn't get the performance evaluation that I think they deserve,'" Crane says.

"Our parents really took from us that opportunity to fall down on our face and learn how to stand up," says Jason Dorsey.
.....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/08/60minutes/main3475200.shtml

Now, don't get me wrong, these "kids" are great. They innovate and use technology like it's second nature. They really are the future. But, the troubling aspect for me is the whole self-esteem movement pushed by the liberal do-gooders who were too afraid to tell a kid he didn't make the baseball team because it might hurt his feelings. Or, the parent who pushes back with the teacher and demands another chance on a test. There's even a term for this: Heliocopter Parents. That's not to say they are all bad or that they are self-absorbed little twits. But, there is always another side to the story.

*totters away on old lady cane to drink her Metamucil on the porch. 

[Servonaut]

*totters away on old lady cane to drink her Metamucil on the porch.

Yeah right Dixie

I've seen your picture 

[delilahmused]

Well, I guess there are definite perks to being a housewife...nobody else wants my job!

Cindie

[Chris_]

Complaining to the DUmp about work ethic is like complaining to the Devil about the lack of ice cubes in Hell.



 

[Chris_]

Now, don't get me wrong, these "kids" are great. They innovate and use technology like it's second nature. They really are the future. But, the troubling aspect for me is the whole self-esteem movement pushed by the liberal do-gooders who were too afraid to tell a kid he didn't make the baseball team because it might hurt his feelings. Or, the parent who pushes back with the teacher and demands another chance on a test. There's even a term for this: Heliocopter Parents. That's not to say they are all bad or that they are self-absorbed little twits. But, there is always another side to the story.

A while ago there was an article (or TV special report?) about kids -- young adults, really -- who had mommies or daddies who actually called after job interviews to ask about how it went, the types of benefits, why their kid didn't get the job, etc.  In more than one case the kid was summarily dropped from consideration.

I was appalled. When I (and my generation) was 18, we took care of these things ourselves -- even if we hadn't moved out of home yet (I was in college, then got my own apartment).  The very idea that your parents would get involved in your work life was unthinkable.

This generation -- the kids of the X gen -- seems to be permanently stuck at adolescence. 

And I have also read about these kids coming out of college and thinking they deserve an upper management job because they are so "special."

But I sense some bounciness in the OP.  I have found these same kids to be pretty polite, if self-absorbed.  I can't imagine them (or anyone) making fun of manual laborers.  I think the OP is creating these situations because he/she thinks that is what the new management is thinking.

Final thought:  This person worked their whole life to make it up to middle management?  Well, to get into upper management in almost all companies requires a college degree, so it is no surprise he is seeing some grads.

[Lord Undies]

I wanna be an ice cream man when I grow up.  I want my truck to play "Greensleeves". 

I don't know what this has to do with this thread, but I wanted it out there.

[djones520]

Well, all I can say is that this is just may be a result of the "Liberal College System". 

I'm 23.  I've held a job for over 6 years now.  I'm responsible for millions of dollars worth of equipment, not to mention the responsibility of making sure 10,000 Americans are kept safe from violent weather.  I'm respectful of those above me, courteous to those below me, and I never try to burn bridges that I may need in the future.

And I've gotten here without ever stepping foot on a college campus (except for the time I spent a weekend with an ex).

[DixieBelle]

*totters away on old lady cane to drink her Metamucil on the porch.

Yeah right Dixie

I've seen your picture 

  Don't be fooled. There's a little old lady inside of me who creeps out once in a while. I can usually distract her with early bird specials and naps at 2pm.

[Chris_]

I wanna be an ice cream man when I grow up.  I want my truck to play "Greensleeves". 

I don't know what this has to do with this thread, but I wanted it out there.

You want to depress little kids?  Jeeze, that's mean.  Can't you choose something not in a minor key?

[Chris_]

Well, all I can say is that this is just may be a result of the "Liberal College System". 

I'm 23.  I've held a job for over 6 years now.  I'm responsible for millions of dollars worth of equipment, not to mention the responsibility of making sure 10,000 Americans are kept safe from violent weather.  I'm respectful of those above me, courteous to those below me, and I never try to burn bridges that I may need in the future.

And I've gotten here without ever stepping foot on a college campus (except for the time I spent a weekend with an ex).

You are clearly onto something there. I'll bet you had a good and healthy relationship with your folks -- one where they parent you but let you make your own decisions more and more as you grow.  And when you became a man, you acted as a man, decided as a man and took responsibility for your decisions as a man.

[DixieBelle]

I found Undies something -



They tried to revive it back in the 90's


But it didn't take. Sigh. I guess kids today don't appreciate the finer things in life like bullet pops and orange push ups.  

[jtyangel]

^Agreed. But, these Millennials worry me.

They were raised by doting parents who told them they are special, played in little leagues with no winners or losers, or all winners. They are laden with trophies just for participating and they think your business-as-usual ethic is for the birds. And if you persist in the belief you can, take your job and shove it.

.....

"Some of them are the greatest generation. They're more hardworking. They have these tools to get things done," she explains. "They are enormously clever and resourceful. Some of the others are absolutely incorrigible. It's their way or the highway. The rest of us are old, redundant, should be retired. How dare we come in, anyone over 30. Not only can't be trusted, can't be counted upon to be, sort of, coherent."

Salzman says today's manager must be half shrink and half diplomat.

.....

"They have climbed Mount Everest. They've been down to Machu Picchu to help excavate it. But they've never punched a time clock. They have no idea what it's like to actually be in an office at nine o'clock, with people handing them work. And oh, by the way, possibly asking them to stay late in the evening, or their weekends," Crane says.

She maintains that while this generation has extraordinary technical skills, childhoods filled with trophies and adulation didn't prepare them for the cold realities of work.

"You now have a generation coming into the workplace that has grown up with the expectation that they will automatically win, and they'll always be rewarded, even for just showing up," Crane says.
.....

And dear old mom isn’t just your landlord; she is your agent as well. "Career services departments are complaining about the parents who are coming to update their child's resume. And in fact, you go to employers, and they're starting to express concern now with the parents who will phone HR, saying, 'But my little Susie or little Johnny didn't get the performance evaluation that I think they deserve,'" Crane says.

"Our parents really took from us that opportunity to fall down on our face and learn how to stand up," says Jason Dorsey.
.....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/08/60minutes/main3475200.shtml

Now, don't get me wrong, these "kids" are great. They innovate and use technology like it's second nature. They really are the future. But, the troubling aspect for me is the whole self-esteem movement pushed by the liberal do-gooders who were too afraid to tell a kid he didn't make the baseball team because it might hurt his feelings. Or, the parent who pushes back with the teacher and demands another chance on a test. There's even a term for this: Heliocopter Parents. That's not to say they are all bad or that they are self-absorbed little twits. But, there is always another side to the story.

*totters away on old lady cane to drink her Metamucil on the porch. 

I don't know..my brother is 25 and he's an engineer and holds down TWO jobs all in the interest of paying off his condo within 4 years. Plenty of kids were raised still with strong work ethic and hell, I didn't come from the best of circumstances as I've said before and he was raised in the same home. His friends, his wife, etc are like he is. I just think its easy to find irresponsibility in 20 somethings, especially now where any thing they do can be recorded by phones and such for all the world to see. I know I am sooo grateful there weren't cell phone cameras and other such shit when I was that age and younger.  :innocent: I bet my generation would have been considered dumbasses too.

[Uhhuh35]

Commit suicide...as a way to live? Huh?

[DixieBelle]

I don't know..my brother is 25 and he's an engineer and holds down TWO jobs all in the interest of paying off his condo within 4 years. Plenty of kids were raised still with strong work ethic and hell, I didn't come from the best of circumstances as I've said before and he was raised in the same home. His friends, his wife, etc are like he is. I just think its easy to find irresponsibility in 20 somethings, especially now where any thing they do can be recorded by phones and such for all the world to see. I know I am sooo grateful there weren't cell phone cameras and other such shit when I was that age and younger.  :innocent: I bet my generation would have been considered dumbasses too.

I'm so glad Polaroids are easily shredded.

[Lord Undies]

I found Undies something -



They tried to revive it back in the 90's


But it didn't take. Sigh. I guess kids today don't appreciate the finer things in life like bullet pops and orange push ups.  

I appreciate this visual gift, DixieBelle.  You are right.  Kids today don't appreciate the unexpected excitement of hearing the ice cream truck down the street coming their way.  Or maybe they aren't allowed to appreciate such a quaint Americana experience. 

I remember one that came to our neighborhood once a week.  It wasn't our usual ice cream truck.  It was like a small RV.  For lack of a better description, it was like a rolling Dairy Queen.  Very exciting! 

Ah, the old days.  Why did we let them go away?   

[Chris_]

I appreciate this visual gift, DixieBelle.  You are right.  Kids today don't appreciate the unexpected excitement of hearing the ice cream truck down the street coming their way.  Or maybe they aren't allowed to appreciate such a quaint Americana experience. 

I remember one that came to our neighborhood once a week.  It wasn't our usual ice cream truck.  It was like a small RV.  For lack of a better description, it was like a rolling Dairy Queen.  Very exciting! 

Ah, the old days.  Why did we let them go away?   
[/quote]

Youth is wasted on the Young.

[Chris_]

I appreciate this visual gift, DixieBelle.  You are right.  Kids today don't appreciate the unexpected excitement of hearing the ice cream truck down the street coming their way.  Or maybe they aren't allowed to appreciate such a quaint Americana experience. 

I remember one that came to our neighborhood once a week.  It wasn't our usual ice cream truck.  It was like a small RV.  For lack of a better description, it was like a rolling Dairy Queen.  Very exciting! 

Ah, the old days.  Why did we let them go away?   

The only problem was getting that silly tune out of your head after the truck left.....

doc

[DixieBelle]

Man I miss those days. Pops were a dime and when you got sticky, you just washed off from the waterhose on the side of the house. Then you went back to riding your bike until Mom called you for supper.

I want to be a kid again!!

[lastparker]

They were raised by doting parents who told them they are special, played in little leagues with no winners or losers, or all winners. They are laden with trophies just for participating....

Where, exactly, did these idiots come from?  I am 41, and my parents were, I think, at the very end of the last generation that produced sensible parents.  They spanked me when I was little and did it right - which means, they doled out the spankings when I was old enough to handle them, but young enough to need them.  Once I hit about 8 or 9, I was never spanked again... because I never needed one again. I just don't get someone who believes that "spanking is hitting and it teaches the child that violence is the way to resolve conflict".  If that's true, this country would be full of violent a-holes and the prisons would be overflowing.

The fact is that kids from my generation were almost all spanked - all my friends were - and we were FAR more obedient and respectful to adults than kids are today.  We were also "forced" to actually compete at sports!  Oh noes!  And our parents lectured us sternly if we had a tantrum over a loss.  And if the loss was heartbreaking, we got a matter-of-fact explanation of the difference between winning and losing.  They told us to try harder; they didn't hire a lawyer to secure the win for us.

And even though my husband and I are striving to raise the kind of kids we were and grew up with, society is making it really difficult..  If one of them needs a swat in public to refocus their behavior, too bad.  I'm not risking a visit from CPS.  And most recently our daycare, in an effort to become accredited, removed the behavior chart from my sons's classroom.  It consisted of stars with each kid's name on a board with an area titled "I had a great day!" and another labeled "I need to try harder", and was a way to quickly assess how the kid was all day.  If I saw his star on the wrong side of the line, I'd find his teacher and find out what he did and then discuss it and possibly punish him.  One day the chart went "poof".  The explanation?  The accreditation guidelines prohibit the technique because it:

is negative feedback
and
it violates the child's privacy

Negative feedback?  What the hell do they think negative behavior deserves???  And the privacy bit - what a laugh.  Personally, I think they need to bring back the dunce cap and standing in the corner.  Ridicule by one's peers is a powerful deterrent.

Truly frightening generation on the horizon.