dopey primitives look no further

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=218x4632

Oh my.

But the maudlin waif primitive must've not seen this bonfire.

SHRED  (1000+ posts)        Sat Aug-15-09 10:01 AM
Original message
 
Look no further than the weed issue... 
 
...to highlight how corrupted our government is.

From industrial, medical, to recreational use of Cannabis the overwhelming majority support legalization yet those that run this country are either too politically timid, too bought off, or both, to carry out the will of the people.

It's been this way for years.

No matter which party is "in charge".

MineralMan  (1000+ posts)      Sat Aug-15-09 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. Whille legalization of marijuana is a good cause, you're dreaming if you think it will be taken up by legislators in this particular political climate. It's simply not going to happen. Just looking at the DU topics in the Latest list demonstrates that people are concerned with issues far more important than legalizing the herb.

It's not as if it's not widely available for recreational use, either. It's easier to buy dope than it is to buy alcohol if you're underage. No shortage.

I agree that it should be legalized. I think all drugs currently illegal should be legalized. I've thought that since the late 60s. I don't think your chances are high.

SHRED  (1000+ posts)        Sat Aug-15-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
2. Oregon is moving forward 
 
http://www.votehemp.com/PR/08-04-09_vh_oregon_hemp_farm...

We are falling deeper and deeper into deficits and recession.

Unemployment is a key problem yet we can't help lift ourselves out with a hemp based green industrial revolution?

Research just how much this plant can do.

Using it as a drug is not where the major benefits are.

Oh, but the primitives want to use it as a drug.

MineralMan  (1000+ posts)      Sat Aug-15-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
 
5. Yah, I know the benefits of hemp. I wrote about it for years.

Hemp isn't going to save the world, the economy, or anything else. That's a pipe dream, and always has been. The concept won't fly as a means of legalizing it. It's a nice plant. Makes good fiber for stuff. But hemp rope isn't much used, and hemp fabric is not going to take over the clothing industry.

Hemp as a biomass feeder isn't going to happen either. It's not cost effective, frankly, and growing enough of it to make a difference would require growing less useful things, like food.

If you want legalization, you're going to have to sell it another way than outrageous claims that it will save the economy. It won't. Sell the medical aspect. Sell the unfairness of drug laws. Or try to.

Problem is that not enough people really give a damn. They didn't in 1970, and they don't now.

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Sat Aug-15-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
 
3. legalizing weed will fix more than just allowing pot smokers to smoke it will also

-- Allow the fabric of our society start to mend after decades of stupid drug laws.

-- Cost government less in law enforcement and incarceration

Among other things. So legalization is actually a step towards restoring our republic.

In this sense, it is far more important than healthcare reform, IMO.

franksolich sniffs heresy on Skins's island.

Nothing, but nothing, can possibly be more important than health care "reform" to the primitives.  Nothing.  Nada.  Zilch.  Zero.

MineralMan  (1000+ posts)      Sat Aug-15-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
 
4. I think you're overstating the importance by several levels of magnitude. If you asked a cross-section of people who had smoked weed during their lives whether legalization would materially alter their lives, the majority would say no. I'm an old geezer, who was a daily smoker for years, starting in 1968. I quit due to the cost in about 1974.

Having smoked it at one time had zero effect on my life. Not having health insurance almost cost me my life at one point. So, putting the two things on the scale, one side is clearly outweighed by the other.

I know that many people have been imprisoned for weed. I know that laws dealing with drugs are unjust. I also know that getting people to give enough of a damn about those things right now is a losing cause.

The best hope is local, of course. During my days of smoking it, the District Attorney in my county in California simply refused to prosecute most marijuana cases for several years. Problem solved, at least there. So, working to essentially, or really, decriminalize weed locally can work. Nationally? Forget about it for a while.

As for dope's economic impact, it's actually rather small, all things considered. An enormous hemp market is a pipe dream. It ain't happening.

ixion  (1000+ posts)        Sat Aug-15-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #4

7. not really... how many people have had their lives ruined because of a drug charge?

Millions.

How many families have been disrupted, and children's lives ruined because Dad got popped smoking a joint, lost his job, and was unable to get back in the workforce because of the charge on his record?

Millions.

I understand that healthcare is an issue, and that not having healthcare in this society is a virtual death sentence if you're injured or disabled or ill. I think that the health insurance industry, and the healthcare industry by proxy, are corrupt and in dire need of reformation.

However, I think it would be easier to legalize pot than to have meaningful healthcare reform. We're not going to get it. What we're going to see is a huge boon to the insurance industry, because THAT is who is writing the so-called 'reform' package.

In short, much like the Consumer Protection Act, which was a giveaway to the banks, so will whatever 'reform' package is passed.

Perhaps we're both asking for pipe dreams.

ensho  (1000+ posts)      Sat Aug-15-09 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
 
6. agree - americans want it decrimed - House/Senate people are cowards

[The Village Idiot]

It justifies big government budgets. Legalizing it will not raise tax revenue since anyone can grow it easily. Legalize it but ban the growing of it? That would be odd.

[GOBUCKS]

Nothing, but nothing, can possibly be more important than health care "reform" to the primitives.  Nothing.  Nada.  Zilch.  Zero.

You have to qualify that by adding "this week", or maybe "this month". I think it's virtually certain that by the time the snow flies, there will be something else that is the most monumental issue in the history of the world. Nothing is ever the most monumental issue in the history of the world for more than a couple of months in DUmmyland. No one knows right now what the most monumental issue in the history of the world will be, come November. It may be cap 'n' trade, or trade with Cuba, or indicting Karl Rove, or total amnesty and citizenship for wetbacks, or reparation payments to all colored people. Who knows. It's hard to beat the allure of free stuff for DUmmies, but it's a sure bet that something will come along.

[Carl]

The one thing about pot that symbolizes the primitives is they wish for it to be a cheap (hell call it a right and make it free) escape from society.

That is all they are about,taking what is needed and then disappearing into a blissful and useless world of their own.

Real life won`t allow that and it is why they are flled with constant rage and hatred.

[Celtic Rose]

The DUmmies love for pot truly perplexes me.  Most of them are vehemently anti-smoking, at least in theory, and yet they think we should make marijuana more accessible.  I remember reading a study a few year ago on how Marijuana was actually just a damaging at tobacco when smoked in similar amounts.  The DUmmies are so obsessed with weed that they blissfully ignore any bad points about it, let alone bad points on truly dangerous drugs, and push for their legalization.

DUmmies, normal people really don't care that strongly about marijuana, and quite simply, most people have enough to worry about right now without adding in something so insignificant.

[GOBUCKS]

The DUmmies love for pot truly perplexes me.  Most of them are vehemently anti-smoking, at least in theory.

Dummies are not anti-smoking. They are anti-tobacco, and that means Big Tobacco. The tobacco companies are owned and run by Republicans, just like every other successful American company. Every one of those Republicans has more money and owns far more stuff than any DUmmy can ever dream to have. That is why they are anti-tobacco. In the absence of a moral code, democrats only have hate and envy.

[AllosaursRus]

Dummies are not anti-smoking. They are anti-tobacco, and that means Big Tobacco. The tobacco companies are owned and run by Republicans, just like every other successful American company. Every one of those Republicans has more money and owns far more stuff than any DUmmy can ever dream to have. That is why they are anti-tobacco. In the absence of a moral code, democrats only have hate and envy.

The only exception is AlGore jr.! His original money, the money that kept daddy in the Senate, where he could keep the "blacks in their place, all came from big tobacco!

Primitives have completely erased that from their collective memory!

[Chris_]

The only exception is AlGore jr.! His original money, the money that kept daddy in the Senate, where he could keep the "blacks in their place, all came from big tobacco!

Primitives have completely erased that from their collective memory!

Just another one of those "Inconvenient Troofs" that racist Rethugs like you (and I) like to hurl at fine, upstanding DemocRat leaders.  (While bitterly clinging to our God and guns, no doubt...)

[GOBUCKS]

The only exception is AlGore jr.! His original money, the money that kept daddy in the Senate, where he could keep the "blacks in their place, all came from big tobacco!

Primitives have completely erased that from their collective memory!

Algore sr. was a democrat before the party became a refuge for the insane and the bolsheviks. If he were
in the Senate today, he would most certainly be a Republican, although the level of criminality he was
accustomed to would be difficult to sustain today. His idiot son is no different from a Kennedy: a useless
waste of skin, living off the profit of his father's crimes and disgracing his family name.

[vesta111]

Algore sr. was a democrat before the party became a refuge for the insane and the bolsheviks. If he were
in the Senate today, he would most certainly be a Republican, although the level of criminality he was
accustomed to would be difficult to sustain today. His idiot son is no different from a Kennedy: a useless
waste of skin, living off the profit of his father's crimes and disgracing his family name.

I take it you will not be playing golf with Al Gore or his son this year.

Rose mentioned that Pot and tobacco smoked in similar amounts can cause dammage.

I know of no one that could smoke the same amount of pot as they smoke tobacco---

As for people growing their own pot, have you ever wondered why tobacco smokers dont grow their own plants >?

 I would be in more trouble if I managed to get my hands on tobacco seeds and planted a 10x10 foot plot then if I planted pot in the same area.

[LC EFA]

...

 I would be in more trouble if I managed to get my hands on tobacco seeds and planted a 10x10 foot plot then if I planted pot in the same area.

Well obviously. Growing your own tobacco cheats the government out of revenue that it considers to a "right" and sets a precedent for cheating them out of the billions they make a year from taxing it.

If weed were legal and taxed the same would be the case.

[thundley4]

Well obviously. Growing your own tobacco cheats the government out of revenue that it considers to a "right" and sets a precedent for cheating them out of the billions they make a year from taxing it.

If weed were legal and taxed the same would be the case.

IIRC, tobacco is very difficult to grow, that is why it's grown only in certain areas. Then there is that whole drying/curing process which is much easier for pot.

[Ree]

I take it you will not be playing golf with Al Gore or his son this year.

Rose mentioned that Pot and tobacco smoked in similar amounts can cause dammage.

I know of no one that could smoke the same amount of pot as they smoke tobacco---

As for people growing their own pot, have you ever wondered why tobacco smokers dont grow their own plants >?

 I would be in more trouble if I managed to get my hands on tobacco seeds and planted a 10x10 foot plot then if I planted pot in the same area.

My  dear..Ya can grow tobacco, ya just can't sell it....

[LC EFA]

IIRC, tobacco is very difficult to grow, that is why it's grown only in certain areas. Then there is that whole drying/curing process which is much easier for pot.

Correct in both cases.

[thundley4]

Correct in both cases.

I seem to recall some guy in Indiana or one of the midwest states that was trying to grow his own tobacco in a green house.

[JohnnyReb]

"Honest officers, I was only growing it to make blue jeans for the kids."

[ScubaGuy]

The DUmmies love for pot truly perplexes me.  Most of them are vehemently anti-smoking, at least in theory, and yet they think we should make marijuana more accessible.  I remember reading a study a few year ago on how Marijuana was actually just a damaging at tobacco when smoked in similar amounts.  The DUmmies are so obsessed with weed that they blissfully ignore any bad points about it, let alone bad points on truly dangerous drugs, and push for their legalization.

DUmmies, normal people really don't care that strongly about marijuana, and quite simply, most people have enough to worry about right now without adding in something so insignificant.

That was based on the fact that you inhale it deeper and hold it in longer, no filters etc.

On the other hand the average cigarette smoker smokes about 20 a day.  I don't think anybody could smoke that much pot daily.

[Celtic Rose]

That was based on the fact that you inhale it deeper and hold it in longer, no filters etc.

On the other hand the average cigarette smoker smokes about 20 a day.  I don't think anybody could smoke that much pot daily.

True, but assuming that the damage has a cumulative effect, over the long term it seems that pot has definite potential to be a damaging substance. 

[Karin]

My God, do I ever hate pot.  I do not see a single appeal to it.  That awful dry mouth that cannot be quenched; the paranoia.  I'll just have a cold beer, thanks. 

[franksolich]

True, but assuming that the damage has a cumulative effect, over the long term it seems that pot has definite potential to be a damaging substance. 

No one ever talks much about the psychologically-damaging effects of dope, which is the main reason I oppose its legalization.  It takes a vigorous, active, get-it-done sort of person and turns him into an apathetic vegetable.

I suspect, for example, that's the ultimate destiny of the maudlin waif primitive.

When I was in college, one of my roommates was a computer whiz and a musical genius (classical), and got great grades all the way up to his junior year.  But then unfortunately he got turned on to dope by, of all people, my best friend from back home.

It took several months, but he changed.  He no longer cared about computers or music or anything else; all he did was smoke dope. 

It was a harrowing sight, watching a person decline like that.

About a year after he was hooked, out of the blue, he joined Reverend Moon's Unification Church, and became a Moonie.  He was in that cult for about four years the last time I heard from him (which was a long time ago now).  I have no idea what he's up to these days.

[ScubaGuy]

No one ever talks much about the psychologically-damaging effects of dope, which is the main reason I oppose its legalization.  It takes a vigorous, active, get-it-done sort of person and turns him into an apathetic vegetable.

I suspect, for example, that's the ultimate destiny of the maudlin waif primitive.

When I was in college, one of my roommates was a computer whiz and a musical genius (classical), and got great grades all the way up to his junior year.  But then unfortunately he got turned on to dope by, of all people, my best friend from back home.

It took several months, but he changed.  He no longer cared about computers or music or anything else; all he did was smoke dope. 

It was a harrowing sight, watching a person decline like that.

About a year after he was hooked, out of the blue, he joined Reverend Moon's Unification Church, and became a Moonie.  He was in that cult for about four years the last time I heard from him (which was a long time ago now).  I have no idea what he's up to these days.

My experience is that it really depends on the person and how they use it.  I've worked with and for some who use pot the same way I use alcohol.  At the end of the week I sometimes like to kick back on the deck and have a large cold vodka and tonic or glass of scotch.  They would kick back and smoke a joint.  If you didn't know them on a personal basis you would never know it.  They were hard workers, intelligent and in some cases very successful.

On the other hand I've known chronic users that would light one up before work, during lunch and then get wasted every evening.  In the end they just like the people you described but not very different from the alcoholics that I've known.

Personally I stay away because of the risk, cost, smell and I hate the feeling it gives me.

[The Village Idiot]

I don't think anybody could smoke that much pot daily.

I know people who try

[GOBUCKS]

The bottom line is that if you buy it, possess it, or use it, you are a druggie and a criminal.
The only way you can obtain it is to associate with at least one serious federal felon.
People can rationalize all they want, talk about breaking the speed limit, victimless crime, or whatever.
They know that's a bogus analogy, and they are simply common criminals.
That's why you can, and should, lose your job based on a positive urinalysis for marijuana.

[vesta111]

The bottom line is that if you buy it, possess it, or use it, you are a druggie and a criminal.
The only way you can obtain it is to associate with at least one serious federal felon.
People can rationalize all they want, talk about breaking the speed limit, victimless crime, or whatever.
They know that's a bogus analogy, and they are simply common criminals.
That's why you can, and should, lose your job based on a positive urinalysis for marijuana.

It can't be tracked Gobucks .

If one has alcohol in their system there is a formula that tells when one had their last drink.

Pot builds in the system and it takes weeks to drain it out.

So if I were to go to smoking  one joint a week , every Friday night, I could loose my job, my home and any chance to live a normal life ?

What the heck did I do to deserve a police record, I am not a thief, have not beaten anyone up or murdered someone.

Just inhaled the smoke from a freaking WEED.

As long as people can use tobacco and face the health threats that everyone ignores and costs society billions a year but one is allowed to inhale THAT weed----Give me a break.

[AllosaursRus]

As long as people can use tobacco and face the health threats that everyone ignores and costs society billions a year but one is allowed to inhale THAT weed----Give me a break.

Oh ESAD! Tobacco smokers pay enough taxes to take care of what health problems we incur. If your stinkin' politicians actually used the taxes we pay for OUR healthcare, that argument wouldn't fly! The fact is they do the same thing with every dollar they steal from us, spend it on pet projects in order to insure their re-election!

That dog just don't hunt!

What the heck did I do to deserve a police record, I am not a thief, have not beaten anyone up or murdered someone.

Just inhaled the smoke from a freaking WEED.

No, but you did buy an illegal substance from a frikkin' criminal who thumbs his nose at the laws of our society! You also deem it more important to get high than to protect your family from the losses you could incur by smoking a damn WEED! In my opinion, that is as CRIMINAL as it gets!!!

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