Venezuela's Chavez orders takeover of iron-makers

[Attero Dominatus]

I always try to say leftist rather than liberal and I use socialist instead of progressive... most of the time at any rate.

I too prefer to call them leftist. Liberal originally meant free and free is what the left does NOT want us to be.

[The Village Idiot]

I too prefer to call them leftist. Liberal originally meant free and free is what the left does NOT want us to be.

on the money!

[skipuno]

I love that the smartest people in the world fall for the old communist line about caring for the working class. The book animal farm should be required reading with special attention payed to the character boxer. The horse that gave his all the the farm, then the pigs rewarded him for all his hard work by sending him to the glue factory.

[Karin]

I just started reading the bonfire.  It's still there, no pizza.  I have to run now, but I brought 2 quotes I liked.  

protocol rv  (1000+ posts)     Mon May-17-10 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #181
196. Nationalization has led to worst debacles  
 Ooverall, the record for nationalization is a lot worse. Think of the Soviet Union, where everything was nationalized. I don't think you will find many Russians who want to return to that sordid, ugly past called communism. You see, I observe a lot of cognitive dissonance in the pro-communists who proliferate in this website. This means the inability to process information which doesn't fit a preconceived notion.

  ding! ding! ding!  We have a winner!

protocol rv  (1000+ posts)     Sun May-16-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
86. That's not true either  
 You are using the wrong information.  (etc. etc. long paragraph....)
You see, I am from Venezuela, so you can't sell that baloney to me.  

protocol rv  (1000+ posts)     Sun May-16-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. They were rightful owners 
 They didn't acquire their claim from uber capitalists. They invested their cash. I see there are some very interesting romantic notions, but a lot of the money being invested by these "uber capitalists" is raised by selling stock, which is rolled into mutual funds, which sell their shares to the retirement funds for organizations such as CALPERS and the various school districts in the USA. So the "capitalist owners", in many cases, are the little guys in the USA and Europe putting their hopes on a steady retirement check. And your dear communists are trying to steal their rights to a decent retirement, you may say. So you see, it's not as clean and romantic as you think. 

  A painful truth.  Glad somebody said it!
Here's sample of a brilliant post by Beth:

EFerrari  (1000+ posts)        Sun May-16-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
61. In opposition to your own fact filled thoughtful posts?
 LOL

  Whatever that means.  LOL.  Dumb.
and

EFerrari  (1000+ posts)        Mon May-17-10 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #142
198. No, that's not true. That's a myth promulgated by the American right wing
 that was started by Ronald Reagan.

  The DUmp ordering system makes it perfectly clear as mud, what the hell she's talking about. 

and

EFerrari  (1000+ posts)        Sun May-16-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
64. Ignorance sucks harder. n/t
 

That's the extent of Beth's contribution, and nobody ever replied to her posts.

Union Yes  (1000+ posts)      Sun May-16-10 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. Viva La Chavez!

 
  protocol rv  (1000+ posts)     Sun May-16-10 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Learn Spanish 
 You just insulted the man. 

     idiot.

You know what?  Hannah Bell never showed up!  Did she get hit by a beer truck?

I highly recommend rowing over and reading. 

[JohnnyReb]

Why would protocol rv leave the wondrful workers paradice of Venezuela? [DUmmie/?]

[Karin]

I guess he had to go back after his education.  He's actively looking for a visa to get the hell out. 

[IassaFTots]

22. Learn Spanish 
 You just insulted the man. 

 

[DumbAss Tanker]

I can't remember specifics, but I know that it's bad.  Clue me in?

Just a plain old actual blast furnace, for making pig iron from ore, coke, and limestone flux would still work, though all the ancillary machinery like the tip to load it is electric.  I was really referring to the aluminum industry, which is totally dependent on large and reliable quantities of electrical power to work at all.

Making actual steel out of the the pig iron from an old school blast furnace also pretty much demands lots of reliable electrical power, from the melting furnaces and related processes like air compression to the materials handling and forming machinery to handle and roll the ingots into plates, sheets, rod or bar stock, and what have you. 

[The Village Idiot]

I was thinking about how hard it would be to rebuild civilization after the collapse.... something as simple as aluminum foil would be very hard to remake.

[BlueStateSaint]

Just a plain old actual blast furnace, for making pig iron from ore, coke, and limestone flux would still work, though all the ancillary machinery like the tip to load it is electric.  I was really referring to the aluminum industry, which is totally dependent on large and reliable quantities of electrical power to work at all.

Making actual steel out of the the pig iron from an old school blast furnace also pretty much demands lots of reliable electrical power, from the melting furnaces and related processes like air compression to the materials handling and forming machinery to handle and roll the ingots into plates, sheets, rod or bar stock, and what have you. 

So, then, if the electrical power was interrupted, as miskie said, it could be . . . a "hot time in Caracas" for all involved.

[jukin]

Another socialist success story!!!!!111111!!!!eleventy

[JohnnyReb]

I once worked in the synthetic fibers industry....certain types rely on a constant electric supply for heat and pressure. If the lights blinked, we sometimes had 3 to 4 hours worth of bad product to throw away after that blink.

Mod. to add....At the rate Venezuela is going with all the "progressivism", they will soon be at the point of ginning, carding, spinning and weaving cotton by hand.

[The Village Idiot]

I think we can expect a huge production drop in Venezuela

[Attero Dominatus]

I was thinking about how hard it would be to rebuild civilization after the collapse.... something as simple as aluminum foil would be very hard to remake.

At least one communist dictator sought to deliberately destroy industry, and by extension technological civilization in his country. Pol Pot had all of Cambodia's cities evacuated and forced everyone onto collective farms.

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/museum/cook.htm

[cavegal]

Why on earth is any body still in this country?

[The Village Idiot]

Why on earth is any body still in this country?

If you can approval to travel you may only convert up to $10,000 worth of Bolivars for your trip. Assuming that is also approved by government.

So, if you have money, doubtful unless its in a Swiss account or something because of heavy inflation you won't be allowed to take it with you.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Why on earth is any body still in this country?

This is the true beauty of Socialism at work:  Chavez controls the passports and the means (Or at least infrastructure) they would have to use to GTFO.  Like the old East Germany, for instance, where it was a crime to try to get out, especially enforced against anyone with productive potential or professional skills, because the State had invested in your education and training, so it was a theft of that investment to try and flee to someplace sane.

And yep, BSS, not only hot, but having a smelting or alloying melt run fail big-time in progress can not only ruin the batch at huge cost, if it fails thoroughly enough, it can ruin the entire plant.  Think like a cement truck that doesn't get rid of its load in time and ends up with a drum full of one giant rock, and then extrapolate that to a cement slurry pumper and a pipeline full of product...then imagine it's semi-purified molten metal that changes dimension as it goes above or below its melting point inside a ceramic shell instead of a slurry pipe. 

[Odin's Hand]

Rank amatuers refining and smelting ore with crude means and methods...how'd that work out during The Great Leap Forward again?

[The Village Idiot]

At least one communist dictator sought to deliberately destroy industry, and by extension technological civilization in his country. Pol Pot had all of Cambodia's cities evacuated and forced everyone onto collective farms.

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/museum/cook.htm

I'd say at least two. Does nobody remember Ethipoian dictator Mengistu?? Maybe you call the 1980's cause of the starving people of Ethipoia? Mengistu was the cause.

[Duke Nukum]

Is this because he saw Iron Man 2 and is very afraid?

[dutch508]

Hard work 12 hours a day for bowls of rice and beans and a cot for the night will be where it ends up if it lasts long enough. The DUmmies have no idea whats going what will go on in Venezuela USA circa 2017, they just hear a few things here and there and if it sounds good tho them they post it, if not then its just propaganda. Idiotic is no way to go through life.

fixed it for you.

[The Village Idiot]

lol

[chitownchica]

Poor stupid Beth reminds me of a French exchange student at my high school back in the day.  She claimed in no uncertain terms that the correct way to spell the word 'you' was 'U' because she read it on the back of a Prince album. This was many years before texting introduced shortcuts for words.

Don't take a citizen's word for it Beth - just keep fantasizing about a wonderful world under dear leader Chavez.

[TheSarge]

Nationalizing the aluminum industry, in a country where the electrical power is already a sometime thing for anyone but the Party officials...oh, this is going to be fun to watch...

 

Any of is that's done a 12 month stint in Iraq knows how well that worked for them.

[Karin]

Rank amatuers refining and smelting ore with crude means and methods

That reminds me of the mental picture I get whenever Hannah Bell says "sign the means of production over to me."  I spent a lot of my career in paper mills.  I get a picture of Hannah being handed over a mill, where I can picture her:
1) Falling into a vat of caustic soda
2)  Falling into a pulper
3)  Falling into a debarker

and any number of terrible things that can happen when you turn the means of production over to "the people."  Well, that's enough fun for now.