Religion is not harmless

[VivisMom]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3682594

The stupid is strong with this one, folks.

lynyrd_skynyrd   (1000+ posts)           Sat Jul-26-08 07:50 PM
Original message
Religion is not harmless
   
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Edited on Sat Jul-26-08 07:58 PM by lynyrd_skynyrd
In a perfect world, everybody with beliefs would have them and keep them to themselves without imposing those beliefs on society at large. The founding fathers recognized this problem and attempted to separate church and state with little success.

In reality, this stuff is dangerous. To deny this fact would be dishonest. When the religious people have numbers on their side, bad things happen, because now they are society at large.

There is one supreme court justice left before Roe v. Wade is overturned.

How many states discriminate against homosexuals?

How many women have been denied contraception?

How many children are being denied a proper education in their science classrooms?

How many abortion clinics have been bombed?

How many people have strapped bombs to their chests, believing they will die a noble death by killing others and be in paradise with 72 virgins?

How many millions of women on this planet are forced to wear a burka, are stoned to death for merely speaking to another man other than their husband?

How many gay people have been murdered simply for being gay, either by citizens or by a nation state?


"But you're confusing bigotry and hatred with religion!" goes the counter argument.


No, I'm not.


It all goes together. The teachings of peace, love, forgiveness, and good will to all are intertwined with bigotry, hatred, and hypocrisy, because it is all glued together with ignorance. When you don't know how to think for yourself, it's easy for those in power to tell you what to think.

Thus Osama Bin Laden can convince 19 people to fly planes into buildings just like George W. Bush can convince a majority of Americans that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. It's the naive gullibility that comes from a lifetime of believing in fairy tales and rituals and superstition.

There are those who say I ought to respect others' beliefs. Perhaps I would if we lived in that perfect world where those beliefs didn't affect the human rights of everyone else. Sure, it would be nice if people just went to church, prayed to their God(s), and kept to themselves. For the most part, that may be the case.

But what I'm seeing are two presidential candidates, neither of which support gay marriage, because whichever one does is sure to lose the election. I'm seeing pharmacists being given the legal power to deny contraception to those who need it. I'm seeing a supreme court consisting of four (out of nine) fundamentalist judges. I'm seeing school books with warning stickers, lying to children about evolution. I'm seeing women and homosexuals being stoned to death. Abortion clinics have been bombed.

These things are happening. These things are real. One cannot claim that religion has nothing to do with it. One cannot even honestly claim that religion only has something to do with it. The reality is religion has everything to do with it.

And while I know I'll be bombarded by a plethora of replies by believers here, claiming to be part of that group of people who keep their beliefs to themselves, I wonder if they'll be capable of admitting to the realities I outlined two paragraphs ago. I wonder if they'll be able to explain the causes of those realities as something other than religion. I'm all ears, believe it or not.

Big bonfire, so just some choice responses:

defendandprotect   (1000+ posts)           Sun Jul-27-08 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
45. Organized patriarchal religion is zealous patriarchy ---
   
and Christianity's Medieval period was a setback for morality ---

The many "god" myths EXACTLY like the Jesus myth were oral renderings --

maybe a stone marking or two --

but the Bible was used to cement patriarchy ---

Tens of thousands of years after attacks on women --- the majority of the world's populations ---

they found a way to force their one-all-male god and male superiority on the people.


The world was turned upside down --- records, libraries destroyed --- knowledge/information

destroyed ---

Blarch (1000+ posts)           Sat Jul-26-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. I find religion to be disgusting...
   
Why should I show respect to a person who worships a god that WANTS ME MURDERED ? ...They deserve zero respect.

Deuteronomy 17
17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshiped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

I would rather worship Satan ...come to think of it, what has he done that was so bad ?

Advocating Satanism? And these people consider themselves mainstream.

defendandprotect   (1000+ posts)           Sun Jul-27-08 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
48. We can only say that religion fosters ignorance of science . . .
   
but that's nothing new --- these are the library burners --- the organization which

destroys any knowlege which they don't agreewith ---

The great libraries of the world were destroyed by "Christians" ---

salinen (1000+ posts)            Sat Jul-26-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. Indeed
   
and the opposite of religion is not socialism or communism, as they'd have us think. It's no wonder the crowd that can be convinced of talking snakes can also be led to worship capitalism. By it's nature, capitalism is anti-humanity. The law of supply and demand is as cruel a philosophy as has ever been deposited on the gullible.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That one made me laugh.

And the resident nutjob checks in:

undergroundpanther   (1000+ posts)            Sat Jul-26-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. lynyrd_skynyrd you are 100%correct
   
Look at the "bible" it talks all the warm fuzzy alongside kill every creature that lives,all that defy god will be tortured forever.
The bible is both nice and just psychopathic.And the god that book describes even jesus the old and new testaments are filled with Nice verses and horrific verses.IT HAS BOTH

Organized religion is a social sickness.A mass socially sanctioned exploitative delusion.
A delusion that comforts believers,lets them face death without breaking down maybe, yet in others it gives believers permission to do horrible things to non believers or other types of beliefs or to or to abuse and deny human rights to people they think god disapproves of..or it lets christians by-stand without shame while other more zealot christians do horrible things to people.

Heaven is a great reward to the obedient christian,but when the master(god, jesus) you look up to is an abusive two faced psychopath holding a carrot and beating you with a metaphysical stick for not conforming what do you expect out of that shit?? Christianity and the bible has NO PURPOSE anymore if one wants to grow up. It does nothing other than reassuring insecure people who may regret putting off their dreams,because a life not lived does not matter because there will be a BIGGER reward one day.Christianity is Narcissism,deified. The other promise of the bible god is someday all the assholes that did wrong to you or other believers will be chastised by your god,humiliated or worse.

Narcissism and cognitive dissonance deified through an old book,is not worth the paper it is printed on.

Organized religion is a crime,it does not make for an ability to have relationships with non believers,because god gets in the way so easy..Christianity is toxic.

 

[Chris_]

lynyrd, since you think in a perfect world everyone would keep their beliefs to themselves how about making your corner of the world just a little bit more "perfect" and shut your mouth?

[Carl]

People that hate God with every bone in their body trying to understand or discuss religion......priceless.

[franksolich]

People that hate God with every bone in their body trying to understand or discuss religion......priceless.

Damn, VivisMom is right.

The stupid is really strong over there.

Observing the primitives discussing God and religion is like watching the village idiot explain Fermer's Theorem.

The primitives wouldn't know the difference between a garden hose and a piece of shit. 

[JohnnyReb]

People that hate God with every bone in their body trying to understand or discuss religion......priceless.

Actually, I'd call'em communist and ungodly communism has cost millions of lifes in just the last century. The godly have killed a few, the ungodly, many.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

Narcissism and cognitive dissonance deified through an old book,is not worth the paper it is printed on.

Says the biggest narcissist on DU!

[dutch508]

lynyrd_skynyrd  (1000+ posts)      Sun Jul-27-08 11:59 AM
Original message
Religion is not harmless
 Advertisements [?]Edited on Sat Jul-26-08 07:58 PM by lynyrd_skynyrd
This topic has been moved by the moderator of this forum.
It can be found at:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

AND...buried.

skypuddle (835 posts)      Sun Jul-27-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
78. "Thus Osama Bin Laden can convince 19 people to fly planes into buildings..."
 Nonsense. Utter nonsense.

Dick Cheney perpetrated 9-11.

it must be fuitloops for breakfast
 

[jukin]

Godless societies of the 1900's:

Hitler's Germany--40-50 million killed, over 6 million Jews killed.

Stalin's USSR--over 100 million killed.

Mao's China--80-100 million killed.

Religion can't hold a candle to non-religious all empowering big government.

[Chris_]

Quote from: franksolich on Today at 07:49:01 am
Quote from: Carl on Today at 07:23:02 am
People that hate God with every bone in their body trying to understand or discuss religion......priceless.


Damn, VivisMom is right.

The stupid is really strong over there.

Observing the primitives discussing God and religion is like watching the village idiot explain Fermer's Theorem.

The primitives wouldn't know the difference between a garden hose and a piece of shit. 

  Good one, Frank.

[Chris_]

Douglas Carpenter  (1000+ posts)       Sun Jul-27-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #53
66. Exactly, Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, Enver Hoxa's Albania and Pol Pot's Cambodia all did eve...
 possible to suppress religious belief. These were the most un-religious and atheistic societies in the history of the world.

In fact I cannot think of a single thoroughly atheist society in the history of the world that has not been nightmarishly totalitarian.

And I wonder about the depth of unbelief by those who cannot stop from turning absolutely rabid and frothing at the mouth at the very mention of religious or spiritual belief. I'm reminded of the character in Flannery O'Conner's novel, Wise Blood who said, "there is nothing worse than a man who claims not to believe when he really does".

Sanity on DU, and one tombstone coming right up.

skypuddle (835 posts)      Sun Jul-27-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
78. "Thus Osama Bin Laden can convince 19 people to fly planes into buildings..."
 Nonsense. Utter nonsense.

Dick Cheney perpetrated 9-11.

Someone forgot their crazy pill this morning.

[jtyangel]

And those who oppose religion are of course NOT bigoted and hateful

For all their 'enlightenment' and still they are incapable themselves of the kind of perfect state of love and acceptance they try to hold other groups or people too. The beauty of Christianity is it realizes the imperfect nature of human beings...it acknowledges it and never makes out humans to be 'little gods' although even some Christians may err in this thinking. 

[Peter3_1]

In fact, not believing in a Christian- Jewish God results in more inhumanity than believing. This cannot be made more clear than by visiting Dr. John Rummel's site on Decide, murder by Government.

  http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

Perhaps someone might refer the DU primitives to that site for an education in reality.

The little ice age hysteria that resulted in killing within the European cultures was in looking for someplace to lay the blame for the crop failures, famine, cold weather and epidemics of disease. Of course, they could not blame God, so they blamed Satan and Satanism. Other "deviant" behavior was an excuse as well. Even here, when there were years without summer as the little ice age tailed off , we killed off the "witches", mostly irritating folk and nonconformists. The further you got from cold weather, the ewer the witches.....

The facts are, truthfully, the greatest danger to life and liberty is totalitarianism and its' supporters. In the PAST this has been Communism , national socialism and socialism. All communities without God. Now we have a new entry, radical islam, islamofascism, that is killing in an unbridled way. Using Allah's "word" to justify the unjustifiable. Dangerous times indeed.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

How many states discriminate against homosexuals? None!

How many women have been denied contraception? None...unless you are under 18 and then you are not a woman yet anyway so your question is still silly and stupid!
How many children are being denied a proper education in their science classrooms? None...The public education system in this country is run by liberals but you already knew that!
How many abortion clinics have been bombed? None lately!

How many people have strapped bombs to their chests, believing they will die a noble death by killing others and be in paradise with 72 virgins?          You oughta know your ilk do everything in their  power to ensure they keep doing it!
How many millions of women on this planet are forced to wear a burka, are stoned to death for merely speaking to another man other than their husband?           See my answer above moron!

How many gay people have been murdered simply for being gay, either by citizens or by a nation state?    Very few why do you ask?

"But you're confusing bigotry and hatred with religion!" goes the counter argument   That would be liberalism!

[MrsSmith]

lynyrd_skynyrd   (1000+ posts)           Sat Jul-26-08 07:50 PM
Original message
Religion is not harmless
   
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Edited on Sat Jul-26-08 07:58 PM by lynyrd_skynyrd
In a perfect world, everybody with beliefs would have them and keep them to themselves without imposing those beliefs on society at large.

Isn't that statement a belief that lynyrd is imposing upon society?   

The teachings of peace, love, forgiveness, and good will to all are intertwined with bigotry, hatred, and hypocrisy, because it is all glued together with ignorance. When you don't know how to think for yourself, it's easy for those in power to tell you what to think.

Belief, again...

There are those who say I ought to respect others' beliefs. Perhaps I would if we lived in that perfect world where those beliefs didn't affect the human rights of everyone else. Sure, it would be nice if people just went to church, prayed to their God(s), and kept to themselves.

Belief and major imposition thereof, along with major denial of free speech...

I'm seeing women and homosexuals being stoned to death

lynryd lives in Iran??

undergroundpanther   (1000+ posts)            Sat Jul-26-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. lynyrd_skynyrd you are 100%correct

Well, that has to be the most incriminating response on the thread.


Ignorance and hypocrisy abound.   

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

lynyrd_skynyrd   (1000+ posts)           Sat Jul-26-08 07:50 PM
Original message
Religion is not harmless
   
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Edited on Sat Jul-26-08 07:58 PM by lynyrd_skynyrd
In a perfect world, everybody with beliefs would have them and keep them to themselves without imposing those beliefs on society at large.

Isn't that statement a belief that lynyrd is imposing upon society?   

The teachings of peace, love, forgiveness, and good will to all are intertwined with bigotry, hatred, and hypocrisy, because it is all glued together with ignorance. When you don't know how to think for yourself, it's easy for those in power to tell you what to think.

Belief, again...

There are those who say I ought to respect others' beliefs. Perhaps I would if we lived in that perfect world where those beliefs didn't affect the human rights of everyone else. Sure, it would be nice if people just went to church, prayed to their God(s), and kept to themselves.

Belief and major imposition thereof, along with major denial of free speech...

I'm seeing women and homosexuals being stoned to death

lynryd lives in Iran??

undergroundpanther   (1000+ posts)            Sat Jul-26-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. lynyrd_skynyrd you are 100%correct

Well, that has to be the most incriminating response on the thread.


Ignorance and hypocrisy abound.   

Don't know about you Mrs Smith but I think I would seriously reconsider my opinion if I had UGP agreeing with me!

[Chris_]

lynyrd_skynyrd   (1000+ posts)           Sat Jul-26-08 07:50 PM
Original message

The teachings of peace, love, forgiveness, and good will to all are intertwined with bigotry, hatred, and hypocrisy, because it is all glued together with ignorance. When you don't know how to think for yourself, it's easy for those in power to tell you what to think.

Say, that's a pretty good definition of liberalism. 

[delilahmused]

Wonder how the lynyrd_skynyrd primitive would feel about the friendship between Ricky Medlocke and Sean Hannity: http://rss.hannity.com/hannity.xml? Scroll down and you can listen to the podcast.

Cindie

[WinOne4TheGipper]

Okay DUmmies, let's just say that all you said is true (it's not) and that all your concerns are valid (they're not).  The correct way to counter abuses by those in charge of government is to limit the power of government, not to demand that you never hear dissenting opinions.  It's as simple as that.

[delilahmused]

lynyrd_skynyrd   (1000+ posts)           Sat Jul-26-08 07:50 PM
Original message
Religion is not harmless
   
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Edited on Sat Jul-26-08 07:58 PM by lynyrd_skynyrd
In a perfect world, everybody with beliefs would have them and keep them to themselves without imposing those beliefs on society at large. The founding fathers recognized this problem and attempted to separate church and state with little success.

You mean THESE founding fathers:

James Madison, father of the U.S. Constitution: "We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

Thomas Jefferson: "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever"

George Washington: "You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention."

~and~

"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge THE Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and to humbly implore His protection and favor."

Samuel Adams: " Let...statesmen and patriots unite their endeavors to renovate the age by...educating their little boys and girls...and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system."

Benjamin Franklin: "History will also afford frequent opportunities of showing the necessity of a public religion...and the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."

~and~

(at the Constitutional Convention): "We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that 'except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel."

John Quincy Adams: "The United States of America were no longer Colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians."

Yeah, I can understand how someone could easily assume the founding fathers wanted all religion removed from the public square...especially that pesky Christianity. I'm sure it was just a typo that they wrote "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." instead of "You absolutely, positively cannot mention the "G" word or the "J" in public ANYWHERE (even Safeway) and folks in the 20th and 21st century can get hysterical (especially gays and wimmin) every time the big patriarchal chauvinist in the sky is mentioned..." Can someone who lives within driving distance of the original document please check it for white out?

Cindie

[USA4ME]

When Jesus spoke of not casting pearls before swine, these are the type of whom He spoke.  There's no reasoning with those who have rejected God.  Move on to those with open minds and fertile hearts who want to know the truth.  God will deal with the others in His time.

.

[Chris_]

lynyrd_skynyrd   (1000+ posts)           Sat Jul-26-08 07:50 PM
Original message

The teachings of peace, love, forgiveness, and good will to all are intertwined with bigotry, hatred, and hypocrisy, because it is all glued together with ignorance. When you don't know how to think for yourself, it's easy for those in power to tell you what to think.

Say, that's a pretty good definition of liberalism. 

"Follow me even if I don't dare tell you where"

[Ptarmigan]

The stupid is strong. Persecution of homosexuals is not just because of religion. One of the biggest persecutors of homosexuals, if not the biggest, were Communists. Being gay was a death sentence in China, Cuba, and Soviet Union. Fred Phelps even wrote a letter to Fidel Castro praising him for persecuting gays. Also, machismo plays a role in persecution of homosexuals, especially in Latin America.

[Chris_]

"Those are MY juniper bushes!"