The Fair Tax

[Chris_]

Army Air Force Exchange Service

We don't pay any sales taxes through it.  If that holds, you'll see an even bigger influx of people pushing to use them, since places like Walmart will now be more expensive.

In that case, the goods you purchase will be 21% cheaper than they are now.

Not at all.  The PX/BX charges no sales tax because those are STATE taxes.  A FEDERAL sales tax, tariff, excise tax, VAT, fair tax, or whatever else you want to call it would still have to be charged by AAFES.

It would probably have the effect of making the PX/BX slightly less competitive with Wally World, to the extent it would pull one way or the other at all. 

Any tarrifs, excise taxes or federal sales taxes and the like which are already imbedded into the wholesale price of goods would disappear to be replaced by the Fair Tax leaving it priced the same.  State and local sales taxes were never applicable so you remain the same.

Point is that there are many taxes that get built in at wholesale that you just dont see unless you start burrowing into hundreds of pounds of tax law books.

And I would end up paying 20-25% tax on after tax money I have saved -- double (actually triple or more) taxation.  A punishment for the thrifty.

[AllosaursRus]

Army Air Force Exchange Service

We don't pay any sales taxes through it.  If that holds, you'll see an even bigger influx of people pushing to use them, since places like Walmart will now be more expensive.

In that case, the goods you purchase will be 21% cheaper than they are now.

Not at all.  The PX/BX charges no sales tax because those are STATE taxes.  A FEDERAL sales tax, tariff, excise tax, VAT, fair tax, or whatever else you want to call it would still have to be charged by AAFES.

It would probably have the effect of making the PX/BX slightly less competitive with Wally World, to the extent it would pull one way or the other at all. 

EXACTLY!

[AllosaursRus]

Army Air Force Exchange Service

We don't pay any sales taxes through it.  If that holds, you'll see an even bigger influx of people pushing to use them, since places like Walmart will now be more expensive.

In that case, the goods you purchase will be 21% cheaper than they are now.

Not at all.  The PX/BX charges no sales tax because those are STATE taxes.  A FEDERAL sales tax, tariff, excise tax, VAT, fair tax, or whatever else you want to call it would still have to be charged by AAFES.

It would probably have the effect of making the PX/BX slightly less competitive with Wally World, to the extent it would pull one way or the other at all. 

Any tarrifs, excise taxes or federal sales taxes and the like which are already imbedded into the wholesale price of goods would disappear to be replaced by the Fair Tax leaving it priced the same.  State and local sales taxes were never applicable so you remain the same.

Point is that there are many taxes that get built in at wholesale that you just dont see unless you start burrowing into hundreds of pounds of tax law books.

And I would end up paying 20-25% tax on after tax money I have saved -- double (actually triple or more) taxation.  A punishment for the thrifty.

HUH?! How do ya figure that out? Ya lost ME completely! 

[Rebel]

And I would end up paying 20-25% tax on after tax money I have saved -- double (actually triple or more) taxation.  A punishment for the thrifty.

What part of "prices won't increase" do you not understand? If they do, they'll only be by about 1-2%. You're not factoring in the embedded taxes that will come out.

[Jim]

Any tarrifs, excise taxes or federal sales taxes and the like which are already imbedded into the wholesale price of goods would disappear to be replaced by the Fair Tax leaving it priced the same.  State and local sales taxes were never applicable so you remain the same.

Point is that there are many taxes that get built in at wholesale that you just dont see unless you start burrowing into hundreds of pounds of tax law books.

And I would end up paying 20-25% tax on after tax money I have saved -- double (actually triple or more) taxation.  A punishment for the thrifty.

You pay it either way.  Either built into the wholesale price as it is today or as a sales tax in the Fair Tax.  Either way that $12 item costs $12.  Difference is you get every dollar of that (making up a number for discussion purposes only) $30 an hour you make with Fair Tax instead of the $20 you get in your pay now.

[Chris_]

And I would end up paying 20-25% tax on after tax money I have saved -- double (actually triple or more) taxation.  A punishment for the thrifty.

What part of "prices won't increase" do you not understand? If they do, they'll only be by about 1-2%. You're not factoring in the embedded taxes that will come out.

The part that says there will be a consumption tax.

Prices aren't taxes.

[Jim]

And I would end up paying 20-25% tax on after tax money I have saved -- double (actually triple or more) taxation.  A punishment for the thrifty.

What part of "prices won't increase" do you not understand? If they do, they'll only be by about 1-2%. You're not factoring in the embedded taxes that will come out.

The part that says there will be a consumption tax.

Prices aren't taxes.

People do not realize that there are taxes inbedded into the wholesale prices and particularly to what extent.

[Rebel]

The part that says there will be a consumption tax.

Prices aren't taxes.

Yeah, businesses suck all the money they are taxed by themselves. They just give up the profits they "could" have received. 

Dude, seriously?

[rich_t]

And I would end up paying 20-25% tax on after tax money I have saved -- double (actually triple or more) taxation.  A punishment for the thrifty.

What part of "prices won't increase" do you not understand? If they do, they'll only be by about 1-2%. You're not factoring in the embedded taxes that will come out.

The part that says there will be a consumption tax.

Prices aren't taxes.

People do not realize that there are taxes inbedded into the wholesale prices and particularly to what extent.

Very true.

As I often mention on other boards...  Companies in this country do NOT pay taxes.  They simply roll it into the consumer purchase price.

[Chris_]

And I would end up paying 20-25% tax on after tax money I have saved -- double (actually triple or more) taxation.  A punishment for the thrifty.

What part of "prices won't increase" do you not understand? If they do, they'll only be by about 1-2%. You're not factoring in the embedded taxes that will come out.

The part that says there will be a consumption tax.

Prices aren't taxes.

People do not realize that there are taxes inbedded into the wholesale prices and particularly to what extent.

So, prices will drop 23-2%?

[Rebel]

So, prices will drop 23-2%?

Yes, how? Because our tax base of 40 million will go to 300+ million.

[Chris_]

So, prices will drop 23-2%?

Yes, how? Because our tax base of 40 million will go to 300+ million.

That is what I need to break even from my stupid Conservative saving.

[rich_t]

So, prices will drop 23-2%?

Yes, how? Because our tax base of 40 million will go to 300+ million.

That is what I need to break even from my stupid Conservative saving.

Huh? 

[Jim]

And I would end up paying 20-25% tax on after tax money I have saved -- double (actually triple or more) taxation.  A punishment for the thrifty.

What part of "prices won't increase" do you not understand? If they do, they'll only be by about 1-2%. You're not factoring in the embedded taxes that will come out.

The part that says there will be a consumption tax.

Prices aren't taxes.

People do not realize that there are taxes inbedded into the wholesale prices and particularly to what extent.

So, prices will drop 23-2%?

Yes, and then the Fair Tax will be applied bringing the tab back to what it is now.  This will vary by item of course (car tires are heavily loaded I know, perhaps candy bars are less so for example).

[Lacarnut]

Eliminate the Federal Income Tax FIRST then a plan can be drawn up to replace it not the other way around. The Fair Tax is a pipe dream that will never materialize.

[Rebel]

Eliminate the Federal Income Tax FIRST then a plan can be drawn up to replace it not the other way around. The Fair Tax is a pipe dream that will never materialize.

I'm guessing you've never read H.R. 25, I.e., the Fair Tax bill?

....if you had, you'd know that repealing the 16th Amendment is a contingency to the implementation of the Fair Tax.

[DumbAss Tanker]

And I would end up paying 20-25% tax on after tax money I have saved -- double (actually triple or more) taxation.  A punishment for the thrifty.

What part of "prices won't increase" do you not understand? If they do, they'll only be by about 1-2%. You're not factoring in the embedded taxes that will come out.

That's an impossibility.  To the extent it replaced ONLY embedded taxes in the goods basket you buy, true, but to the extent it is supposed to replace all other taxes which are not so embedded, like income tax, that means the price the buyer actually pays to get the goods in his grubby little hands will go up quite significantly.

[Jim]

And I would end up paying 20-25% tax on after tax money I have saved -- double (actually triple or more) taxation.  A punishment for the thrifty.

What part of "prices won't increase" do you not understand? If they do, they'll only be by about 1-2%. You're not factoring in the embedded taxes that will come out.

That's an impossibility.  To the extent it replaced ONLY embedded taxes in the goods basket you buy, true, but to the extent it is supposed to replace all other taxes which are not so embedded, like income tax, that means the price the buyer actually pays to get the goods in his grubby little hands will go up quite significantly.

No.  Its too complex to cover in two paragraph posts. 

FAIRTAX.ORG

[DumbAss Tanker]

It has zero chance of happening so debate about its feasibility is essentially just jaw-jacking.  Here's why: Using Rebel's figures, spreading the taxes now paid by over 40 million over 300 million may be great for the 40 million, but that means not so great for 260 million, and the Congressmen that would have to pass tend to not be so keen on 4:26 odds.  There are massively more stakeholders on the status quo side of the equation than on the Fair Tax side of it.   

[Rebel]

That's an impossibility.  To the extent it replaced ONLY embedded taxes in the goods basket you buy, true, but to the extent it is supposed to replace all other taxes which are not so embedded, like income tax, that means the price the buyer actually pays to get the goods in his grubby little hands will go up quite significantly.

The Fairtax will be a 23% tax on all new purchases made. Right now, there's about a 21% embedded tax, which will be removed. The only entity that will pay taxes, which is what they did before only without their knowledge, is the individual. The Fairtax also can't be manipulated without EVERYONE knowing about it. There is no pandering to a segment of the population. There is no shopping for votes with the Capital of promises to screw over those that have it better than you. 300 million people + 20 million undocumented illegals, will be paying into the system.

The only reason it wouldn't work is if everyone had the same type of attitude you have. ...one that was, unfortunately, pretty common before the Declaration of Independence. That attitude? "It can't happen".

[Rebel]

It has zero chance of happening so debate about its feasibility is essentially just jaw-jacking.  Here's why: Using Rebel's figures, spreading the taxes now paid by over 40 million over 300 million may be great for the 40 million, but that means not so great for 260 million, and the Congressmen that would have to pass tend to not be so keen on 4:26 odds.  There are massively more stakeholders on the status quo side of the equation than on the Fair Tax side of it.   

Those 260 million other people get a monthly check up to the poverty level. About 150 a month per person.

[DumbAss Tanker]

It has zero chance of happening so debate about its feasibility is essentially just jaw-jacking.  Here's why: Using Rebel's figures, spreading the taxes now paid by over 40 million over 300 million may be great for the 40 million, but that means not so great for 260 million, and the Congressmen that would have to pass tend to not be so keen on 4:26 odds.  There are massively more stakeholders on the status quo side of the equation than on the Fair Tax side of it.   

Those 260 million other people get a monthly check up to the poverty level. About 150 a month per person.

They also vote, at least in the same proportion as the 40 million do.  Are you math-impaired, or just don't want to think through how the House of Representatives actually works (including that little 'Popular election every two years' thing)?

Everything you've said is a great argument for the 4 in that 26:4 setup, and a worse deal for the 26.  That 26 is not going to go for big changes like Fair Tax just because 'It won't make the prices that much different,' they would only do it because they see some advantage for them or their interests in the change, and so far it all cuts the other way for them.  The fact that the present system doesn't seem equitable to the 4 means exactly jack to the 26.

Figure it out using some actual brain cells instead of testosterone and wishful thinking, and spare me the asswipe snark about "The same attitude as you, Revolution never would have happened, blahblahblah," you sound like some retard Paulista when you do that. 

[Rebel]

They also vote, at least in the same proportion as the 40 million do.  Are you math-impaired, or just don't want to think through how the House of Representatives actually works (including that little 'Popular election every two years' thing)?

Everything you've said is a great argument for the 4 in that 26:4 setup, and a worse deal for the 26.  That 26 is not going to go for big changes like Fair Tax just because 'It won't make the prices that much different,' they would only do it because they see some advantage for them or their interests in the change, and so far it all cuts the other way for them.  The fact that the present system doesn't seem equitable to the 4 means exactly jack to the 26.

...and there has never been a tax increase on the "rich" that has done a damn thing to help them either. On the contrary, it's had a negative impact on them as it affects the entire economy. The Fair Tax would give them 150 a month for life. This is across the board and not something you have to apply for. If they're that Damn stupid, they shouldn't vote anyway.

[Lacarnut]

Eliminate the Federal Income Tax FIRST then a plan can be drawn up to replace it not the other way around. The Fair Tax is a pipe dream that will never materialize.

I'm guessing you've never read H.R. 25, I.e., the Fair Tax bill?

....if you had, you'd know that repealing the 16th Amendment is a contingency to the implementation of the Fair Tax.

No I have not read it. How many admendments have been repealed or passed lately?. The ERA did not quite make it so I see zero chance of it happening. The Supreme Court has ruled against the states that try to impose sales tax on interstate sales where no nexus exists. The commerce clause throws another monkey wrench into the pie.   

[DumbAss Tanker]

If they're that Damn stupid, they shouldn't vote anyway.

Heh, well, I guess we both know "shouldn't" is a long way from "won't."  Drives me nuts to see the voting campaigns sometimes, since to me it seems like it is just getting a bunch of know-nothings who have no commitment or opinion to go out and screw up the election by picking the name they can most easily pronounce or the prettiest face.