The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on November 28, 2018, 11:38:30 PM
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Orrex (58,589 posts) https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211486198
Help with something I'm seeing from a lot of Trump cultists
I have seen the claim made dozens of time that Obama authorized the use of tear gas and pepper spray at the Mexican border "hundreds of times."
They don't offer any citations in support of this claim, and I'd prefer not to waste time chasing it down if someone already knows the answer.
What's the truth on this?
the reports are tear gas was used on the border about once a month during Barry's term.
8 years x 12 months...
maybe not 'hundreds' of times... but yeah... they used it.
shraby (21,338 posts)
1. They would have impeached him if he had done that.
He wasn't impeached, so he didn't do it.
They made enough noise because he wore a tan suit.
:bird:
Response to Orrex (Original post)Wed Nov 28, 2018, 11:25 PM
Star Member Botany (48,868 posts)
2. Let it go
No facts will change their minds.
BTW not one scintilla of truth to what they say .... President Obama never had
American law enforcement or the military fire ANYTHING across an international
border.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-tear-gas-border-migrants/
Customs and Border Protection agents used tear gas 1.3 times per month on average between 2012 and 2016, the final five years of Barack Obama's tenure as president.
oh, higher than originally reported, actually...
On 26 November, the Washington Times published an article whose headline declared that “Tear gas [was] used once a month at border under Obama”:
The same tear-gas agent that the Trump administration is taking heat for deploying against a border mob this weekend is actually used fairly frequently — including more than once a month during the later years of President Barack Obama’s administration, according to Homeland Security data.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection has used 2-chlorobenzylidene malononitrile, or CS, since 2010, and deployed it 26 times in fiscal 2012 and 27 times in 2013. The use dropped after that, but was still deployed three times in 2016, Mr. Obama’s final full year in office.
oh, my... that's more than twice a month! The numbers keep climbing...
CBP sent us the following breakdown of incidents involving tear gas and pepper spray by their agents since 2012. Since these numbers represent incidents, it should be noted that the number of individuals affected is greater than the number of incidents:
Incidents involving CBP use of 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (CS gas)/ Incidents involving CBP use of PAVA (pepper spray)
Fiscal Year
2012: 26/ 95
FY 2013: 27/ 151
FY 2014: 15/ 109
FY 2015: 8/ 30
FY 2016: 3/ 49
FY 2017: 18/ 56
FY 2018: 29/ 43
:lol:
These figures show that from 2012 to 2016, the final five years of Obama’s tenure as president, CBP agents used CS gas (tear spray) in 79 incidents, which is the equivalent of 15.8 incidents per year, or 1.3 per month
The 2013 incident was also the focus of a widely shared 26 November article by the conservative Washington Examiner.
These reports are also accurate and describe a real incident from November 2013 which was not widely reported but was covered by the San Diego Union-Tribune:
A group of about 100 people trying to illegally cross the border near the San Ysidro port of entry threw rocks and bottles at U.S. Border Patrol agents, who responded by using pepper spray and other means to force the crowd back into Mexico, federal officials said …
The incident occurred about a quarter-mile west of the San Ysidro border crossing in the Tijuana River channel. No one was seriously injured, no shots were fired and no arrests were made, said Mary Beth Caston, a Border Patrol spokeswoman.
The group first approached a lone agent stationed about 1/8 of a mile north of the border. They ignored his commands to stop, so he fired pepper balls to try to stop them and protect himself, Caston said. As the crowd kept advancing and throwing rocks and bottles, she said, more agents came to the scene and used other “intermediate use-of-force devices” to push back the group.
The Associated Press also reported on the 24 November 2013 incident:
In the latest confrontation, people crossed the border west of the San Ysidro Port of Entry and got about an eighth of a mile north when a Border Patrol agent ordered the group to stop. The agent fired pepper-balls when the crowd kept coming, the Border Patrol said, and as the people grew unruly other agents arrived and used so-called “intermediate use-of-force devices,” such as pepper-ball launchers, to drive the crowd back across the Tijuana River.
:-)
Initech (72,793 posts)
4. According to Politfact the incident Sanders is quoting was from 2007.
And Obama was not the president then, George Bush was. Trump cultists seem to forget that there was a president before Obama. But there were multiple incidents of teargas being used during the Obama administration, but they were not at the Mexican border and they were not aimed at children.
:loser:
California_Republic (766 posts)
8. You can tamp it down and then " yeah well then what about this?"
It never ends
there is a reason we call you DUmbies...
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I can help DU-member Orifice: (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/16/border-patrol-faulted-for-policy-on-less-lethal-force/5520197/)
Even though Border Patrol reports show that long-range less-lethal weapons, such as one that fires irritant "pepper balls," are highly effective at dispersing rock throwers, Customs and Border Protection doesn't require agents assigned to urban areas such as this one to carry such weapons.
Many agents do. The (Arizona) Republic analyzed nearly 1,600 CBP use-of-force reports nationwide from 2010 to mid-2012, obtained through Freedom of Information Act requests. These reports, the most recent CBP has disclosed, showed the vast majority of the time agents responded to rockings with less-lethal weapons and easily dispersed rock throwers without injury to the agents, rock throwers or bystanders in the crowded areas on both sides of the border.
Agents have several less-lethal long-range alternatives. The pepper-ball launching system, essentially a modified paintball gun, can fire more than 10 balls per second filled with pepper spray, letting agents saturate an area up to 60 feet away with irritating vapors. The longer-range FN-303, a rifle-style weapon, uses compressed air to shoot "kinetic impact" projectiles,similar to rubber bullets, which are meant to incapacitate people without killing them. The sting-ball grenade is a hand-thrown grenade that sets off a flash and a loud bang, exploding several hundred small rubber balls, quickly clearing an area.
In nearly all of the 50 incident reports in east Nogales in which one of these less-lethal devices was used, agents reported that the rock throwers retreated south into Mexico without further incident.
And of course, there's the 2013 incident near San Ysidro (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-border-patrol-rock-throwing-san-ysidro-2013nov25-story,amp.html), mentioned in the DU thread.
DUpipo can chant against What-About-ism to their hearts delight, but they weren't outraged about use of pepper spray balls and rubber projectiles until Trump was President. Their hypocritical selective outrage is truly 100s of Obama-era usages to once during Trump's Presidency.
I realize what I say in my signature is largely true, but when truth nukes Prog narratives, Progs should just move on to the next narrative (and nuking-by-reality, :-) ).
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The citations you are looking for DUmmies can be found here:
http://www.letmegooglethat.com/ (http://www.letmegooglethat.com/)
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unblock
3. snopes is usually pretty reliable for this sort of thing:
they rate it mostly true.
my guess is the devil's in the details. obama wasn't itching for a showdown, so i'd guess that if tear gas and/or pepper spray were used, there might well have been at least a semi-legitimate rationale for it.
It does appear the devil is in the details. Same act, but with Trump it is treason or whatever and with Dear Leader then he must have had a good reason. ::)
And they continue to demonstrate why there’s no reason to try and tell them facts. Unless it agrees with what they already want to believe then you’re wasting time.
.
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It's interesting just how short that thread is since they know it's the truth. :lmao:
KC
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More things 0bozo can take credit for:
Booming economy "I did that"
Tear gassing "undocumented peaceful immigrant poor, children & women. "I did that"
Supported & helped fund a border wall. "I did that too!!!"
Forced GM to close plants & build gashogging SUV's and trucks to raise gas prices. "That was all me, Saint Obama"
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More things 0bozo can take credit for:
Booming economy "I did that"
Tear gassing "undocumented peaceful immigrant poor, children & women. "I did that"
Supported & helped fund a border wall. "I did that too!!!"
Forced GM to close plants & build gashogging SUV's and trucks to raise gas prices. "That was all me, Saint Obama"
You left out the energy boom.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/11/29/barack-obama-takes-credit-oil-gas-production-boom-houston-event
'That Was Me, People': Obama Takes Credit for Oil Production Boom
Ex-Shell exec: Obama 'had nothing to do with it.'
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You left out the energy boom.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/11/29/barack-obama-takes-credit-oil-gas-production-boom-houston-event
Was getting to that, but thanks! Lobbed a softball up there for ya, and you hit a homer.
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More things 0bozo can take credit for:
Booming economy "I did that"
Tear gassing "undocumented peaceful immigrant poor, children & women. "I did that"
Supported & helped fund a border wall. "I did that too!!!"
Forced GM to close plants & build gashogging SUV's and trucks to raise gas prices. "That was all me, Saint Obama"
:lmao: :rotf:
Begs to ask .... "Who Ķilled Roger Rabbit"?
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:lmao: :rotf:
Begs to ask .... "Who Ķilled Roger Rabbit"?
"Michelle did that! And ate him for lunch."
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"Michelle did that! And ate him for lunch."
Obama ate pluto
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Obama ate pluto
Pluto or Dopey?
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Pluto or Dopey?
Pluto. Its alot harder to eat yourself
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Tear gas, land mines really makes no difference to me. In all fairness to drug smugglers. MS-13 members, underage women being sold into prostitution. I believe the sign that faces south on our border warning about landmines should be bilingual.