Preview to future primitive outrage

[USA4ME]

argiel1234

Cutting SS/Medicare/Medicaid/Food Stamps in deal with Republicans. Yes or No?

Would you accept if Obama cut Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid/Food Stamps, etc with Republicans in some sort of deal?

Simple Question.

Yes or No

Lets see where DU members stand on this issue

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Edit for clarity

Please recommend and kick for importance to see who really supports Democratic values

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EDIT again I will NOT accept any cuts whatsoever in these vital programs and those who would accept these cuts to the most vulnerable among us I would like to be exposed publicly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1794953

There's going to be changes to SS and Medicare which will include cuts and, in the case of SS, probably raising retirement age to 67 and eventually 70.  Paul Ryan has clearly pointed out that the numbers don't currently add up, and other Dems including Bill Clinton have made statements backing that up.

Of course the primitives are saying no.  I'm not seeing many, if any, of the 100% Dear Leader cult followers chiming in.  They've got to leave their options open to proclaim that Dear Leader did what was best and screwed over those repigs, and you can't do that if you say no.

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[DumbAss Tanker]

There's currently a cap on the amount of income subject to FICA tax at around $100K, that'll probably go away and the FICA tax rate increase somewhat...there may well also be some upward movement of the eligibility age or downward in the way the benefit is calculated...all assuming the Oministration brings in somebody who can do simple arithmetic, let alone anything as alien to them as uncooked accounting.

[USA4ME]

There's currently a cap on the amount of income subject to FICA tax at around $100K, that'll probably go away and the FICA tax rate increase somewhat...there may well also be some upward movement of the eligibility age or downward in the way the benefit is calculated...all assuming the Oministration brings in somebody who can do simple arithmetic, let alone anything as alien to them as uncooked accounting.

I think the current level is $120K, but you're right it'll probably be increased some.  The primitives would have it completely go away and then means test the rich and not let them ever collect, but that's not going to happen.  But when they move the age of eligibility and reduce coverage in Medicare, they'll explode.  Fun for all!!

.

[I_B_Perky]

argiel1234

Cutting SS/Medicare/Medicaid/Food Stamps in deal with Republicans. Yes or No?

Would you accept if Obama cut Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid/Food Stamps, etc with Republicans in some sort of deal?

Simple Question.

Yes or No

Lets see where DU members stand on this issue

********

Edit for clarity

Please recommend and kick for importance to see who really supports Democratic values

********
 
EDIT again I will NOT accept any cuts whatsoever in these vital programs and those who would accept these cuts to the most vulnerable among us I would like to be exposed publicly

http://www.democraticunde...orum=1002&pid=1794953

Well dummie... here is the cold hard truth. SS will go broke.  The trust fund is nothing more than a bunch of federal government IOU's on a IBM Enterprise Server hard drive in Parkersburg, WV. The government does not have the money to pay it back and borrowing will probably be out of the question once obumbles gets done. No skin off my back. I have prepared to be able to retire without SS. If I get anything out of it, that's gravy.

Medicare will be raising premiums. It has too. It will cost too much not to.

I'm betting that when that day arrives and the seniors start really complaining the politicians will look around and cut welfare before they will cut SS and Medicare. Either way, you libs lose.

[USA4ME]

WinkyDink

122. Like the dog that didn't bark, the non-posters here are interesting.

At least one primitive has noticed the Dear Leader cult cheerleaders not commenting.

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[USA4ME]

cthulu2016

I did not vote for a "Grand Bargain"

I doubt more than 10% of Obama voters voted for a grand bargain.

I voted to leave entitlements alone, and for the government to continue to borrow and spend because that is what is keeping the economy propped up right now.
 
If I had wanted to vote to indicate that the deficit was a priority I would have voted for the man running on eliminating the government.
 
Anyone who is, in this year of 2012, particularly worried about the deficit is an idiot. Since the deficit is largely a product of low economic growth, it is more symptom than core problem.
 
A "grand bargain" on achieving full employment would be more to the point. A robust economy is prerequisite to deficit reduction.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1806113

Red Knight

Wow--is Chuck Shumer ready to bargain

Just watching him on C-SPAN and it's clear he's toting the "Grand Bargain" line that will cut social security.
 
"We don't have 60 votes in the senate, they won the house, it's a 50-50 thing, we have to be ready to cut.....blah, blah, blah."
 
They really are going to give it away.

NOTE: This OP is not critical of Obama. It is critical of something me might do, not something he has done. And the sensible time to voice your opinion about what someone might do is before they do it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021807741

I'm seeing more and more of these types of threads.  These dolts are going to go nuts when they preceive the Dems have sold them out, because there will be changes to SS and Medicare along with some tax increases on the rich.  The final draft won't be hammered out until probably May or June (unlikely Congress will want this to drag on through the summer), but they're already getting a whiff that the Dems have kicked them to the curb.

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[Ptarmigan]

You limp noodles got what you voted for. You should be happy. So stop your whining.

[USA4ME]

grahamhgreen

SS does not add one nickel to the deficit. Any talk of cutting SS to reduce the deficit is a CON.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021808897

reformist2

If Dems won the election, why is ANYONE talking about a 3:1 ratio of spending cuts/tax increases???

Or even a 2:1 ratio for that matter. As far as I can tell, NO Democrat ran on cutting any social program in such a way. Now it's conventional wisdom that this is the deal that must be made???
 
NO.

Any deal made to win Republican votes in the House and Senate must be biased in favor of tax increases. You know, because Democrats won the election. Anything less is a total sellout, imo.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1805179

Poll_Blind

TYT: Grand Bargain = Grand Larceny, Grand Lie

Why the Grand Bargain Is One-Sided and Totally Unfair

First of all, let's establish that no one in Washington actually cares about balancing the budget. If they did, they would love this so-called Fiscal Cliff. It raises taxes and cuts spending, so it would massively reduce the deficit. Isn't that what all of Washington has been pretending to care about all of this time?
 
Second, understand that this so-called compromise they are talking about in order to avoid this supposed calamity is a trick. In fact, it'll be the greatest robbery in American history. Think about it -- they say they are worried about all those tax increases and spending cuts. But that's not true. The Grand Bargain would dramatically increase spending cuts, not alleviate them. So, in fact, the only thing they care about is paying less taxes, as always.
 
Right now, according to the sequester $1.2 trillion in spending cuts are set to take place if nothing happens. Half of that would come from defense. Of course, this is the real problem because there's no way the defense contractors are going to allow that. Whenever people in Washington complain about spending cuts they mean spending cuts that would affect defense contractors. They want to massively increase spending cuts everywhere else in the budget.
 
President Obama has proposed that the Grand Bargain include $4 trillion in savings. He has said over and over again that the ratio would be $3 in spending cuts to $1 in tax increases. This is before his legendarily disastrous negotiating begins. So, let's do some quick math. According to the president's own plan that would be $3 trillion in spending cuts, which is significantly higher than the current plan of $1.2 trillion in spending cuts.
 
--snip--

Much more at the link!

It's going to be A Lesson to watch about half of everyone here climb on the tracks and pray for the train to come. News: The train's coming nomatter what.
 
PB

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021808913

woo me with science

Reject Third Way propaganda, *especially* now.

The Third Way/corporate-faction-of-our-party bids for passivity and low expectations re: "The Grand Bargain" have begun.
 
We were spared them for a few days during celebration over the elections, but the corporate mantra is starting to crop up all over the boards now, from the same familiar corners. Don't buy it.
 
You will hear the usual prepping for acceptance of a new "Grand Bargain" to impose trillions in austerity on Americans:
 
"We don't hold the House." 'Obama can't get anything unless he compromises." "You're just a purist." "Tax increases don't have popular support." "We have to address the deficit."

The arguments are tired, stale, and insulting. They are also economically irresponsible. The fact is that we have a tide of real change happening, so of course the corporate pushback will be strong and pervasive in every bit of media the one percent can reach, down to discussion boards on the internet. The defeatist messages are corporate-derived, even in cases where the ones repeating them do not realize it.
 
Reject the propaganda about our weak hand. Obama just carried every single swing state, with polls showing decisively that Americans, even across party lines, utterly reject Simpson Bowles and cutting Medicare and Social Security. Austerity is wildly unpopular among the electorate, for sound economic reasons. Europe is collapsing under austerity, and reasoned and educated voices are multiplying to proclaim that multi-trillion dollar budget slashing and austerity are a scam and an assault on a nation. They are not only NOT healthy like eating your peas....They are economically destructive.
 
Democrats who *truly* oppose austerity and Republican policies don't start out by preaching about bipartisanship and party weakness, especially when we have unprecedented public support and momentum now behind our party to do the right thing for the nation. Every bit of evidence...from economic data, to polls, to results of this decisive election.... is coalescing around the consensus that telling the one percent and the Republicans exactly what they can do with their austerity is not only the popular thing to do, but the economically responsible thing to do.
 
We hold the cards now, by every measure. The nation is with us. There are plenty of excellent prescriptions in thoughtful media, and in history, for how we can do this, EVEN with a Republican House:
 
Voters Didn't Ask for Bi-Partisanship, They Demanded Good Policies...Obama holds the cards this time
 http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021789621

Budget cutting in a depression just deepens the depression
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021789566

It is well past time for the deliberate looting of the poor and middle classes to stop, and for the looters to be hobbled once and for all. We must pressure our politicians to seize this opportunity for real leadership and real change. Don't let the conversation be derailed by the same tired, destructive propaganda. We hold the cards this time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1791044

The awareness grows.

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[jukin]

I was wary of a Cloward Piven type breakdown because the system was firmly on the side of law. Now it is on the side of men and moochers. They have so much more to lose in a meltdown. When the shit hits the fan and it will sooner now, much sooner, the worst off will be the hardest hit as the government ceases to send out checks.  No way it can hang together with local LEO forces. National Guard will not show up like they did in NOLA and protect their own. I really do not see how the moochers and looters come out on top with a government fail while we still are armed.

Hence look for lots of gun control and confiscation work by the left in the next two years and keep buying ammo...in cash.

[formerlurker]

EDIT again I will NOT accept any cuts whatsoever in these vital programs and those who would accept these cuts to the most vulnerable among us I would like to be exposed publicly

The messiah already cut Medicare, and there is a thread on your island concerning cuts to Medicaid in Ohio ($50 per month decrease in food stamps).

Whatcha gonna do about it?

[Tucker]

At least one primitive has noticed the Dear Leader cult cheerleaders not commenting.

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That whole thing is a mole trap.

[Rebel]

I was wary of a Cloward Piven type breakdown because the system was firmly on the side of law. Now it is on the side of men and moochers. They have so much more to lose in a meltdown. When the shit hits the fan and it will sooner now, much sooner, the worst off will be the hardest hit as the government ceases to send out checks.  No way it can hang together with local LEO forces. National Guard will not show up like they did in NOLA and protect their own. I really do not see how the moochers and looters come out on top with a government fail while we still are armed.

Hence look for lots of gun control and confiscation work by the left in the next two years and keep buying ammo...in cash.

That's exactly how I see it playing out.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I was wary of a Cloward Piven type breakdown because the system was firmly on the side of law. Now it is on the side of men and moochers. They have so much more to lose in a meltdown. When the shit hits the fan and it will sooner now, much sooner, the worst off will be the hardest hit as the government ceases to send out checks.  No way it can hang together with local LEO forces. National Guard will not show up like they did in NOLA and protect their own. I really do not see how the moochers and looters come out on top with a government fail while we still are armed.

Hence look for lots of gun control and confiscation work by the left in the next two years and keep buying ammo...in cash.

I don't put any stock in the Cloward-Piven theory because whether ruled by law (Ultimately a product of men) or just by men, it is based on a false assumption that the system can only deal with ever-increasing demands by giving them up until it breaks, rather than adapting to them, and if it works at all it works .  Of course, if the theory does work, it seems to take a very long time to actually get to the breakdown stage, since even Greece isn't there yet even after 60 years of going for it balls-to-the-wall.  The other good thing about it is that if it does work, the DUmmies and other biggest moochers start dying first, making it much easier to change the entitlement system that brought it to fruition. 

[Rebel]

I don't put any stock in the Cloward-Piven theory because whether ruled by law (Ultimately a product of men) or just by men, it is based on a false assumption that the system can only deal with ever-increasing demands by giving them up until it breaks, rather than adapting to them, and if it works at all it works .  Of course, if the theory does work, it seems to take a very long time to actually get to the breakdown stage, since even Greece isn't there yet even after 60 years of going for it balls-to-the-wall.  The other good thing about it is that if it does work, the DUmmies and other biggest moochers start dying first, making it much easier to change the entitlement system that brought it to fruition. 

Remove the EU factor. Now how do you see it?

[USA4ME]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1813696

Too much to bring over on this thread.  I did note in an indirect way that WillyPitt seems to indicate he knows the Grand Bargain is going to be a reality, he just can't talk about it in the way he'd like to yet.

We all enjoy it when the primitives get the wailing and gnashing of teeth they deserve.  This is going to be one of the better ones when it happens.

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[FlaGator]

I don't put any stock in the Cloward-Piven theory because whether ruled by law (Ultimately a product of men) or just by men, it is based on a false assumption that the system can only deal with ever-increasing demands by giving them up until it breaks, rather than adapting to them, and if it works at all it works .  Of course, if the theory does work, it seems to take a very long time to actually get to the breakdown stage, since even Greece isn't there yet even after 60 years of going for it balls-to-the-wall.  The other good thing about it is that if it does work, the DUmmies and other biggest moochers start dying first, making it much easier to change the entitlement system that brought it to fruition. 

I suppose this explains Obama's attempts to increase the number of people receiving unearned government benefits. Load up the system until it crashes.