Suspect’s parents charged in Michigan school shooting

[enslaved1]

https://apnews.com/article/oxford-high-school-shooting-crime-shootings-michigan-pontiac-743d8e262a35d07123732cb870186772

PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — A prosecutor in Michigan filed involuntary manslaughter charges Friday against the parents of a boy who is accused of killing four students at Oxford High School, after saying earlier that their actions went “far beyond negligence.”

Jennifer and James Crumbley were charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter. Under Michigan law, an involuntary manslaughter charge can be pursued if prosecutors believe someone contributed to a situation where harm or death was high. If convicted, they could face up to 15 years in prison.

“The parents were the only individuals in the position to know the access to weapons,” Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald said Thursday. The gun “seems to have been just freely available to that individual.”

There's still so much missing information, I'm not sure how I feel about this.....

[SVPete]

Maybe there's more that is relevant to the charge than is publicly known, but this sounds like over-charging. I have read that the gun that was used was purchased a few days before the shooting. And since the boy got ahold of it without the parents' knowledge, it may not have been stored and supervised properly. But that's, IMO, negligence, not manslaughter.

IF the parents knew the boy had mental problems AND that he tended to be violent and that he was extremely angry with specific schoolmates, not properly storing and supervising the gun might, IMO, rise to the level of involuntary manslaughter, but that's some pretty big "IF"s.

Just my opinions at present, and my profession is not related to law.

[Mr Mannn]

This reeks more of gun control than of justice.

[DefiantSix]

This reeks more of gun control than of justice.

Actually, I'm failing to see the difference between this and the usual Commie/tyrant's practice of punishing the entire family for the sins of the offender. Remember, these ****wits believe the process itself is its own punishment.

[Drafe Hoblin]

There are whispers that the parents gave the kid legal advice of some sort.  The DA was pissed at something she couldn't reveal regarding the parents' behavior, which may've reminded her about the Laundry-family's behavior.

[Eupher]

The parents were supposed to have surrendered to the SO at 2 pm today -- that didn't happen. The parents' attorney said they weren't fleeing, as is reported in various news outlets. The attorney said they left town when the incident happened "for their own safety."

In other news, maybe in the link above, the kid's mother had texted the kid on the day of the shootings stating, "Don't do it." And apparently there were some other tidbits that the SO learned about both parents in their texts to the kid, which is one of the reasons they're charged.

Further, on the day that the firearm was purchased (just a day or two before the shootings), the kid accompanied his father at the gun store -- not to suggest that that is illegal. But you can believe that the gun control crowd is going to scream "Straw purchase!" while frothing at the mouth.

[Eupher]

Parents were arrested early this morning in Detroit.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/michigan-school-shooting-suspects-parents-charged/story?id=81525654

[SVPete]

Parents were arrested early this morning in Detroit.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/michigan-school-shooting-suspects-parents-charged/story?id=81525654

From the article:

The parents charged in connection with this week's deadly shooting at Oxford High School in Michigan were captured early Saturday following an hourslong search after they did not turn themselves in for their scheduled arraignment Friday afternoon, according to law enforcement officials.

The attorney for James and Jennifer Crumbley had said they were returning to town for their arraignment after detectives announced they were trying to locate the couple. But the duo remained missing late Friday. The U.S. Marshals Service joined in on the search.

Leaving town was a questionable move and not a good "look". Failing to show up for the arraignment was moronic and to an ordinary person could look suspicious/guilty, like an effort to flee (with which they might be charged, also).

Have DUpipo Played the Race Card on their being captured alive? Or are many of them still in drunken stupors laying on their beds, sofas, and floors?

[Drafe Hoblin]

Weak justification for fleeing.

The mother's lawyer:  " Why would she retain me if she was planning on leaving? "

Obvious answer:  " She just left, whether she retained you or not.  Happens all the time. "

[Eupher]

One article I read indicates that they were arrested in Detroit after a person recognized the mother and their vehicle parked in a parking lot outside a building. $500,000 bail for each parent; the judge agreed with the prosecution that they pose a flight risk.

Ya think?

Story also says that the mother (Jennifer) fled on foot after she was approached by cops, but both were arrested shortly afterwards.

Despite the hyperbole by the Crumbley's attorneys, their failure to make their arraignment goes beyond looking just "bad".

https://www.yahoo.com/news/parents-michigan-school-shooting-suspect-075600276.html

[SVPete]

I still haven't seen information that would justify an involuntary manslaughter charge rather than a negligence charge, not that I'm especially privy to information about the case. Right now it looks like over-charging, possibly anti-gun-ownership (though the prosecutor claimed it is not).

[SVPete]

From https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/12/04/crumbleys-apprehended-at-their-hideout-but-can-they-be-convicted-n433169

Ed already ran through some of the obvious questions about the charges being filed, but I wanted to touch on a couple of additional points here. It’s difficult to see the prosecution’s path forward in going after the parents. We’re seeing some cheers for these charges coming from the anti-Second Amendment lobby, including a hastily published op-ed from the parents of one of the victims of the Columbine shooting. But while blaming the parents may provide some emotional relief for the aggrieved, that doesn’t necessarily translate to actual justice.

The Oakland County prosecutor, Karen McDonald, seems to be throwing a Hail Mary in an attempt to bring down somebody in addition to the shooter. As Ed already discussed, James Crumbley legally purchased the handgun and passed a background check. It’s not illegal for a parent to allow their teenage child to use a firearm. (I received my first gun at the age of eleven. It was a Remington Arms .22 caliber, bolt-action rifle.) And Michigan law apparently does not require firearms to be secured inside of the home. There’s certainly a case to be made that they were negligent, particularly given their son’s troubling behavior and the red flags raised by the school. But making that add up to manslaughter is going to be a long row to hoe in a courtroom.

The sentence I emphasized is where I'm at. It's going to take a lot of very specific, very strong, evidence to get past Negligence to involuntary homicide. Even if Ethan was a troublemaker at school, it would have to be trouble of a very violent character.

[Eupher]

I still haven't seen information that would justify an involuntary manslaughter charge rather than a negligence charge, not that I'm especially privy to information about the case. Right now it looks like over-charging, possibly anti-gun-ownership (though the prosecutor claimed it is not).

From what I've read (sorry, no link) a series of text messages from the kid's mother seems to point toward her knowledge that first, the kid was off his bean (also substantiated by the kid's misbehavior in school, which the school notified the parents about -- and was ignored) and second, the kid's fascination with gun violence was also known to his parents.

One text message in particular, sent to the kid on the actual day of the shootings - "Don't do it." The context of this text would seem to point toward knowledge ahead of time or even suspicions that the mother, at least, knew of the kid's intentions.

Of course, that's all conjecture because the prosecution hasn't spelled out the reasons for the involuntary manslaughter charge - maybe that'll come out in the arraignment.

[FlaGator]

From what I have read and heard on the news, the father and the son were together when the gun was purchased. The kid posted pictures on the internet of him and his "Christmas Present". The kid had the gun on him at the time of the second meeting with the school administration. When the parents got home they claim is when they realized that the gun was missing (however, there is a 2-hour gap between the end of the meeting and when the shooting started. The mom, at some point, texted the kid "don't do it" indicating that she had prior knowledge that he might do something like this, or was able to deduce it when she realized the gun wasn't at home. At any rate they did not have the gun secured and, at least in Florida, that would qualify them to be charged with culpable negligence. The question will be is did the parents have enough knowledge to determine what the kid was up to. The text from the mom doesn't look good for her.

[SVPete]

I won't guess who is lying and who is truthing, but the parents are contradicting one of the prosecutor's key claims, that the gun was unlocked, https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/gwendolynsims/2021/12/04/new-details-emerge-as-parents-of-accused-michigan-school-shooter-formally-arraigned-n1538894 . Since at least some pistols include some sort of lock in the manufacturer's box/case, disproving the parents' claim could be difficult if they can prove they had a gun lock (obviously if the gun is locked and the key right next to it ... but getting evidence for that ...).

Over-charging to coerce a plea bargain and for political effect is a too common tactic among DAs. I don't claim she's doing that, but in the context of the hyper-political failed prosecution of Rittenhouse, I think that a too real possibility.

[Eupher]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time that prosecuting attorneys have lied.

They missed their arraignment on Friday because of a miscommunication with the court? Doesn't sound plausible, frankly.

And the Oakland County sheriff announced that they're also investigating a third party who allowed the Crumbleys access to a building in Detroit, ostensibly to hide them. Law enforcement is also known to lie from time to time, but that kind of lie should be easily debunked.

As always, there's more to the story than we're getting.

[enslaved1]

From the article:

Leaving town was a questionable move and not a good "look". Failing to show up for the arraignment was moronic and to an ordinary person could look suspicious/guilty, like an effort to flee (with which they might be charged, also).

Have DUpipo Played the Race Card on their being captured alive? Or are many of them still in drunken stupors laying on their beds, sofas, and floors?

As more information is coming, the parents are definitely making very poor choices that don't help their case, even if the charges are excessive or overreach. 

There were some memes floating around that the parents tried to get into Canada, but were refused cause they aren't vaccinated, anyone else see any substantiation, or is that just moonbat's daydreaming?