Author Topic: 1983 Datsun 280ZX  (Read 144400 times)

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Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2009, 02:53:06 AM »
Blue smoke is oil....

Did you ever find out where the leak was from? (when you used the wiper/washers)

No, but I'm assuming it is a loose hose or fitting around the heater core.  Did I mention I had the heater on full-blast at the time?  There are some plastic covers under the dash that I haven't been able to remove to get to the HC and they're not shown in my service manual.  I have no idea where the billowing white smoke was coming from, but it was only visible when the weather was cold.  It's 50° right now... if I went outside, you probably wouldn't see it.

I still have a laundry list of tests I need to do... wet compression, cylinder leakdown, PCV valve, throttle position switch, valve guides, valve stems. :(
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Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2009, 02:56:57 AM »
Oh... that reminds me.  Dumping a bottle of Seafoam into the tank will produce the same symptoms because I did it with my motorcycle.  I wonder if the previous owner did that?  The gas tank is nearly empty.

Someone else recommended using a high-detergent oil as well.
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Offline RobJohnson

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2009, 02:59:12 AM »
Oh... that reminds me.  Dumping a bottle of Seafoam into the tank will produce the same symptoms because I did it with my motorcycle.  I wonder if the previous owner did that?  The gas tank is nearly empty.



Yeah, seafoam can really smoke when it starts to work

but I have a feeling your smoke is oil


Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2009, 03:04:13 AM »
Yeah, seafoam can really smoke when it starts to work

but I have a feeling your smoke is oil

There was a clear difference between the smoke I saw last month and the smoke I saw yesterday.  The stuff coming out previously looked mostly white with no visible blue color.  I did a little tire-squealing in the parking lot and revved the motor up to 4,500 rpm yesterday... I don't normally drive like that, and it was the first time I could definitely say the smoke was blue.
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Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2009, 03:11:57 AM »
Yeah, seafoam can really smoke when it starts to work

but I have a feeling your smoke is oil

lol... someone in another forum referred to it as "having your neighbors call the EPA on your ass".   
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Offline RobJohnson

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2009, 03:30:13 AM »
Hopefully the mystery of the smoke escapes into the pass so that you may get plates for the car.

Offline Wineslob

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2009, 10:59:27 AM »
Blue smoke when first starting the car= valves. This is from oil leakdown when it's been shut off, but lessens or goes away after a few minutes.

When the engine is under acceleration/load is usually rings. Probably the oilscrapers are "stuck" into the piston grooves, and aren't controlling the oil allowing it to be "sucked up" into the combustion chambers. Thats what causes continuious smoke or more/worse when accelerating. Find that PCV valve, it can cause this too, though I doubt it to the level you are seeing.

Try seeing if you get alot of blow by. Usually you'll get a draft/pressure out of the oil fill with the cap removed. You should have a slight vacuum. Sometimes pulseations will show it's not all the pistons if the frequency is not as fast as the revolutions of the engine.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 12:31:01 PM by Wineslob »
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Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2009, 10:45:15 PM »
There is a Datsun shop downtown somewhere.  They even have the old Datsun sign outside.  I've heard good things about them.  I got a quote from Jasper Engines just for the hell of it.

List Price: $2326.00 
Core Charge: $600.00 
Shipping: $15.00 
Parts: $344.00
Labor: $290.00

How do core charges work?  I pay them and get the money back when they get the core?  Do I have to pay it up front?

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Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #83 on: February 10, 2009, 02:35:08 AM »
Blue smoke when first starting the car= valves. This is from oil leakdown when it's been shut off, but lessens or goes away after a few minutes.

When the engine is under acceleration/load is usually rings. Probably the oilscrapers are "stuck" into the piston grooves, and aren't controlling the oil allowing it to be "sucked up" into the combustion chambers. Thats what causes continuious smoke or more/worse when accelerating. Find that PVC valve, it can cause this too, though I doubt it to the level you are seeing.

Try seeing if you get alot of blow by. Usually you'll get a draft/pressure out of the oil fill with the cap removed. You should have a slight vacuum. Sometimes pulseations will show it's not all the pistons if the frequency is not as fast as the revolutions of the engine.

I have *tried* to watch the smoke -- I can't see it very well from the drivers seat.  It does not start immediately... it starts 5-10 seconds after the engine has been started.  Since the weather has warmed up above freezing, I see what appears to be a string of white smoke after the engine has warmed up, or is under any kind of load (traffic).  This does not include the blue smoke from my little "fun" in the parking lot.  The tank is nearly empty and the plugs are in horrible condition with the oil fouling and damaged insulators.  I will have to install new plugs and re-fill the tank with fresh gas to see if there is any improvement.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 03:24:13 AM by Chris »
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #84 on: February 10, 2009, 12:35:53 PM »
White smoke is usually bad, it means that water is entering the combustion chambers.
The price for the rebuilt is'nt too bad. The core is charged up front and what you get back is dependent on how rebuildable your "core" is. Pretty much if it runs you'll get it all back. What they are hedging against is a "blown" engine, ie: broken rods, crank, holes in the block, etc..
“The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”

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Offline Peter3_1

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #85 on: February 10, 2009, 03:03:43 PM »
White smoke, sweet smell (anti freeze) , blown head gasket. Run the car HARD and she'll probably start to overheat. Stop, and check your plugs. Find one that looks PERFECTLY clean, you've found the leak.

Now, you can try and cheap out with a can of heavy duty boiler sealer (I ran a Packard for 2 years on a boiler sealer fix) , and if that doesn't work, do a head gasket . BUT, send the head out and hav e it checked for warpage, and, if there is none, just have it shaved so it is completely level. Do the valves, seals, seats, clean up the ports while you have it apart.

Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #86 on: February 10, 2009, 04:02:50 PM »
Would test strips be useful for detecting oil contamination in the coolant, or vice versa?  How accurate are coolant pressure tests in detecting a damaged gasket?
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Offline Peter3_1

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #87 on: February 10, 2009, 04:39:13 PM »
Coolant in the water USED to show up as gray goo where the  contaminated oil/warte vapors condensed on the oil fill cap on the cam/valve cover. NOW, io looks like tiny black beeds embeded in the oil condensed on the fill cal. The car must be COLD after being hot when you check. Oil floating on cold coolant is a giveaway  too. BUt, WHEN YOU START IT UP AND THE WHITE SMOKE LEAKS OUT, sniff it. Smells sweel, you have a failed head gasket.

Offline RobJohnson

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #88 on: February 11, 2009, 02:37:05 AM »

Try seeing if you get alot of blow by.

 :evillaugh:

Offline Peter3_1

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2009, 11:30:21 AM »
Also a leakdown test might point out where you lose compression thru a leak. It will even tell you which valve(s)  is(are)  bad.

Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #90 on: February 11, 2009, 08:18:34 PM »
Also a leakdown test might point out where you lose compression thru a leak. It will even tell you which valve(s)  is(are)  bad.

I did a vacuum test and the results were normal... no indication of any valve leaks.  Normally a vacuum test will show a leaking valve as a drop in pressure during idle.  I did find a set of Accustrips that will detect glycol in the oil for $35.  I need to install new plugs, do an oil change, and a wet compression test this weekend to see if there is a difference in any of the cylinders.  I should have done it yesterday but didn't. 

I need to swap over the old registration so I can at least drive it on the weekends.
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Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #91 on: February 11, 2009, 08:57:13 PM »
Found a couple other things from this forum...

Wet test:
Quote
the oil control rings could be frozen and causing it to use/burn oil. if the compression rings are ok then it will have good compression and still burn oil with bad #3 control rings.

Non-functioning or disabled PCV valve on a fuel-injected engine:
Quote
increased crankcase pressure resulting in oil forced past seals and rings producing a cloud of acrtid bluish-white smoke

I was suffering from information overload yesterday which is why I didn't accomplish anything. :-)


edited to add:
Quote
Like the title says. I have an A4 w/ 1.8t that's blowing clouds of smoke from the exhaust, the turbo was replaced 8k miles ago for the same symptom (early last February when very cold) , but I'm not so sure that was the only problem. This has happened both times when it was very cold out.

I'm out on a limb here but could this be caused by an accumulation of moisture and then subsequent freezing in a less than perfectly clean PCV system - essentially blocking any crankcase ventilation and pushing oil past the rings?

Well, that was exactly the problem - frozen PCV - brought it in the garage for an evening with the heat on, let it warm up - drove it like stink till all the oil was out of the exhaust - worked great!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4209176
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 12:55:13 AM by Chris »
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Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #92 on: February 13, 2009, 02:11:56 AM »
I added some more information to the previous post. 

Damn this confusing car.  It is 37° outside right now, clearly cold enough to see any vapor and/or smoke.  About a minute or so of idling with a normal-looking (for a cold night) exhaust, the white smoke starts bellowing out of the tailpipe.  It bellows and bellows, gradually diminishing as the engine heats up.  I drove the car around the block three or four times and idled for a bit until the temperature gauge read 185°.  No visible smoke at all which is what the previous owner claimed, that it will pass emissions once the car has heated up.  Last time I was at the MARTA station, the engine was cold, or at least the coolant gauge was not standing straight up.  The PCV valve is threaded directly into the exhaust manifold.  I'm going to guess that it's all gummed up and doesn't loosen and start working until the manifold has gotten hot.  It's all dark and shit outside and I don't feel like testing it right now.  I'll pick up a new PCV valve and a new set of plugs on Saturday.

The Talking Lady and my fancy little "this-part-is-broken" diagnostic thingy on the dashboard works.  I'm getting a tail light error.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 02:14:15 AM by Chris »
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Offline RobJohnson

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #93 on: February 13, 2009, 02:17:20 AM »
I added some more information to the previous post. 

Damn this confusing car.  It is 37° outside right now, clearly cold enough to see any vapor and/or smoke.  About a minute or so of idling with a normal-looking (for a cold night) exhaust, the white smoke starts bellowing out of the tailpipe.  It bellows and bellows, gradually diminishing as the engine heats up.  I drove the car around the block three or four times and idled for a bit until the temperature gauge read 185°.  No visible smoke at all which is what the previous owner claimed, that it will pass emissions once the car has heated up.  Last time I was at the MARTA station, the engine was cold, or at least the coolant gauge was not standing straight up.  The PCV valve is threaded directly into the exhaust manifold.  I'm going to guess that it's all gummed up and doesn't loosen and start working until the manifold has gotten hot.  It's all dark and shit outside and I don't feel like testing it right now.  I'll pick up a new PCV valve and a new set of plugs on Saturday.

The Talking Lady and my fancy little "this-part-is-broken" diagnostic thingy on the dashboard works.  I'm getting a tail light error.

It sounds like you continue to figure things out about the car.

Hopefully you can get the plates soon and enjoy the car.

Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #94 on: February 13, 2009, 02:27:01 AM »
It sounds like you continue to figure things out about the car.

Hopefully you can get the plates soon and enjoy the car.

I can take stuff apart and put it back together and I can follow mechanical instructions reasonably well, but I'm no mechanic.  Diagnosing car problems has never been a strong point, but having years and years of information and experience availible has helped.  Outside of the Racer Retard forums, there are a lot of very knowledgable people when it comes to these cars.
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #95 on: February 13, 2009, 09:57:58 AM »
I think it's a bad head gasket/warped head. When it heats up thermal expansion "seals" the head.
“The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”

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"Practice random violence and senseless acts of brutality"

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Offline Peter3_1

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2009, 11:50:18 AM »
BINGO, WINESLOB! Then if you run it REALLY hard, it will finish blowing out that portion of the gasket that leaks. Erosion from the hot combustion will, eventually, erode the leak and open the passage up for REAL damage. The erosion could cut the block, or head or both to the point where a simple machining won't cure it. Thenis is new head, new block or crate engine.

Or, you can do as I did, bolier seal it, and when it eventually and finally burns out, scrap it. In my case, it lasted 2 years.

Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2009, 02:04:14 PM »
I spoke with the Nissan dealership down the street.  Aside from a head compression test, they can test the coolant for any hydrocarbon/oil contamination and run an exhaust gas analyzer up the tailpipe.  If the head compression test doesn't show anything, the other two should show some kind of results.
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Offline Chris

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #98 on: February 14, 2009, 05:24:41 PM »
So I'm in NAPA getting my stuff and the kid behind the counter has this blank look on his face when he can't find a Nissan 280ZX in the computer system.  I don't think it ever occurred to him to look for a Datsun.

I can see this is going to be a lot of fun.

Did I mention I hate auto parts stores?  Except for NAPA.  They always seem to have what I need when I need it.  The rest of them seem to be designed soley for peddling aftermarket floor mats and air freshener.
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Offline RobJohnson

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Re: 1983 Datsun 280ZX
« Reply #99 on: February 15, 2009, 01:23:58 AM »
So I'm in NAPA getting my stuff and the kid behind the counter has this blank look on his face when he can't find a Nissan 280ZX in the computer system.  I don't think it ever occurred to him to look for a Datsun.

I can see this is going to be a lot of fun.

Did I mention I hate auto parts stores?  Except for NAPA.  They always seem to have what I need when I need it.  The rest of them seem to be designed soley for peddling aftermarket floor mats and air freshener.

I like both Napa and Carquest.