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Author Topic: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?  (Read 4965 times)

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Offline Carl

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Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« on: November 11, 2009, 06:20:17 PM »
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Nederland  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-09-09 08:09 PM
Original message
Poll question: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
   People around here say health care is a right. What about the other necessities of life? Food? Clothing? Shelter? Should society guarantee that people receive these things even if they can't afford them?
   Poll result (104 votes)
Yes, people have a right to food, clothing and shelter.    (88 votes, 85%)   Vote
No, people should have to work to provide the basic necessities of life.    (16 votes, 15%)   Vote

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6975824

There you have it.

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slackmaster  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-09-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, but not everyone is entitled to have someone else pay for them
   Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 08:12 PM by slackmaster


Should society guarantee that people receive these things even if they can't afford them?

I think safety nets can be good, as long as they are reserved for the truly destitute and don't encourage people to give up on supporting themselves.
   

Not going to go over well slacky

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Warren Stupidity  (1000+ posts)          Mon Nov-09-09 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Yeah we have to careful or there will be another outbreak of welfare cadillac queens
   Rightwing Thought is infectious. I blame 40 years of concerted media brainwashing myself.

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bikingaz (63 posts)        Mon Nov-09-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. how much are you willing to pay for me to stay home & do nothing?
   What is your limit?

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Warren Stupidity  (1000+ posts)          Mon Nov-09-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I think my marginal rate is like 35-36% and I am ok with that.
   In fact I would be most happy to divert hundreds of billions poured annually into the MIC cesspool toward decent welfare benefits for all in need.

Sure...you are at the top of the tax brackets. :whatever:

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treestar  (1000+ posts)          Tue Nov-10-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
62. I don't actually have a problem with that.
   If people didn't work because they had the basics, they would still provide jobs for others by purchase of the basics and would just not get more than that. Seeing other people have more than that can be just as motivating.

Nomination for stupidest post of the day.

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The_Commonist  (668 posts)        Mon Nov-09-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. To get better food, clothing and health care?
   I think the idea that if one gets the basic necessities, then one doesn't have an incentive to work is silly. The vast majority of people would still work to have a better life.

It is what the DUmp hopes and dreams for because once they have that then the next rung on the ladder will also be demanded.

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wuushew (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-09-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. people who drop out of the consumerist society probably have a lower carbon footprint
   is laziness worse than overconsumption? Mother Earth would probably say no.

Please feel free to stop consuming anything.

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pitohui  (1000+ posts)         Tue Nov-10-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
52. of course, it's impossible for everyone to work
   Edited on Tue Nov-10-09 12:11 PM by pitohui
it is just nonsense, first of all, there are not worthwhile jobs for everyone, we have automation and we will have more in the future -- we are going to have to accept that not everyone can work, either that, or we will have to accept some kind of mass murder (which is to me unacceptable) -- sure we're getting rid of plenty of testosterone fueled males by shipping them out to foreign countries but it isn't really working all that well because we still have too many bodies and too few j-o-b JOBS

once even little children and the very old either had to work or beg, now we accept that the children, the old, the disabled, etc. should not be expected to work (it would be impossible for them to earn enough to service by working anyway, esp. in the cases of small children and the frail old)

we're still angry and bitter when a supposedly able-bodied guy can't find work and i guess the guy is supposed to either stick a gun in our face or die, personally i would rather the guy not be asked to stick a gun in my face to survive but our society has decided that we won't help single young/middle-aged males -- the demographic most likely to become aggressive and criminal if they have nothing useful to do -- i don't see the sense of it

we just don't accept the reality of a world where there are millions more people than jobs which i think is just plain stupid

i guess we could have "make work" jobs but our society is unwilling to fund even needed "make work" jobs like improving roads, bridges, levees, etc. -- we don't want to give jobs to anyone, then we turn around and yell at them for not having jobs

screwy

the tiny minority who "choose" not to work are doing a favor to the overwhelming majority that desperate wants and needs a job and, too often, can't find one -- altho i doubt any real "choice" is often involved, i think that's just a pride/ego saver -- the person from the ghetto background who "chooses" not to work because no one he knows works and can give him a recommend, and he speaks in non-standard english (if he speaks english at all) so no stranger will hire him -- hmmm, was there ever any choice here? 80% of jobs are found through personal referral. EIGHTY ****ING PERCENT. they had this stat on yahoo/jobs just yesterday or the day before...choice is a joke, it's abt contacts and having the right parents, professors, and so on

I have to rethink that nomination for stupidest post of the day now.
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Offline TheSarge

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2009, 06:28:21 PM »
Sadly...what the DUmmies think "basic rights" entails and what the FF's idea of "basic rights" was....are galaxies apart.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2009, 06:34:17 PM »
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it is just nonsense, first of all, there are not worthwhile jobs for everyone, we have automation and we will have more in the future -- we are going to have to accept that not everyone can work,

DUmmies support illegal immigrants because they take low paying jobs, that people on welfare may be forced to take.
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Offline DixieBelle

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2009, 06:47:38 PM »
My head hurts from reading that.
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Offline Lord Undies

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2009, 06:53:59 PM »
The only basic "right" anyone has is to the air he breathes, and the folks behind that funny looking puppet in the White House are trying to take even that away from us.
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Offline jinxmchue

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2009, 06:55:27 PM »
DUmpthought: "basic right" = the right to sit around on one's ass doing nothing other than crying "GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!"
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Offline Carl

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2009, 07:02:53 PM »
It is hard to grasp the inanity of the primitives.
They actually believe that if you provided "basic" needs then everyone would happily work for better.

Okay...let me ask any lurkers to sign up and answer a question.

If a basic fulfillment of this was a daily supply of potato soup and bread served in a room with four walls,a bed and a toilet with enough clothes to wear for two days while two more were being washed would you be content that your needs were met and demand nothing more?

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Offline thundley4

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2009, 07:11:31 PM »
Quote
If a basic fulfillment of this was a daily supply of potato soup and bread served in a room with four walls,a bed and a toilet with enough clothes to wear for two days while two more were being washed would you be content that your needs were met and demand nothing more?

I wouldn't have much problem if my tax dollars went to that kind of welfare. I'd even through in a daily multivitamin and meat once  or twice a week.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2009, 08:31:46 PM »
Quote from:
The_Commonist

To get better food, clothing and health care?
 
I think the idea that if one gets the basic necessities, then one doesn't have an incentive to work is silly. The vast majority of people would still work to have a better life.

Knowing full you you don't have the ability to think, I still say to you "Think again, dimwit!"  Everyone gets free food, shelter, and clothing, so what reason do they have to lift a finger?  Answer:  They won't.  The only reason to get up and do anything is when it suddenly occurs to everyone that enough food isn't going to grow itself.  And then I assure you the ones doing all the work to grow the food won't share it with all the lazy bums still lying around waiting for their free meal.

Yeah, make food, shelter and clothing a "right."  Congo will look like a city of gold compared to what we'll look like.

Morans.

.
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Offline tuolumnejim

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2009, 08:34:04 PM »
Yet another thread of useless oxygen stealing f***ing morons, all I want for Christmas is for them to stop stealing oxygen.  :-)
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2009, 08:44:24 PM »
Quote from: tuolumnejim on November 11, 2009, 08:34:04 PM
Yet another thread of useless oxygen stealing f***ing morons, all I want for Christmas is for them to stop stealing oxygen.  :-)

Here at VRWC Labs, we now have the technology to grant your wish, Ma'am.

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Offline Chump

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2009, 08:45:39 PM »
Any right, "basic" or not, can't come at a cost to the rights of someone else.  It's that simple.  That's why DUmmies are wrong, every time, about everything.  Their very first thought is wrong, if you can call that inane drivel thinking.
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Offline dandi

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2009, 09:32:45 PM »
A right is an activity one can exercise that requires no effort or sacrifice on the part of anyone else. Any government-mandated benefit one receives which requires involuntary effort or sacrifice on someone else's part is an entitlement.

You have no "right" to what is mine, be it money, food, clothing, shelter, property, labor, whatever, just because you were born in the same country as I or have less than I. I may elect to be charitable and give stuff to you, or laws may be passed with or without my consent which redistribute my wealth to you through taxation, but you don't have a "right" to jack shit that belongs to me
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2009, 10:25:09 PM »
The "I'm so po" stories are out of control. It amazes me to know end the way they think.

The right.  As if.   :rotf:
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Offline LC EFA

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 10:47:47 PM »
They have a "right" to those things in so far as they cannot be denied them if they have the means to obtain them.

They seem to get confused between "must be provided" and "cannot be denied".

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Offline Rebel

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2009, 10:58:40 PM »
Good God, some of those f'n idiots need to have their voting rights revoked.

He DUmbasses, it takes working people to make the world go round, you f'n idiots.  :censored:
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2009, 04:19:47 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on November 11, 2009, 10:58:40 PM
Good God, some of those f'n idiots need to have their voting rights revoked.

He DUmbasses, it takes working people to make the world go round, you f'n idiots.  :censored:

Someday, when living conditions are Zimbabwe-like, they'll figure that out.
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Offline md11hydmec

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2009, 06:54:25 AM »
Quote from: BlueStateSaint on November 12, 2009, 04:19:47 AM
Someday, when living conditions are Zimbabwe-like, they'll figure that out.

That's the problem with socialism or even liberalism. It wants everyone equal, equally miserable.
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Offline whiffleball

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2009, 07:06:39 AM »
I had to row over to see if the Bobbling One had shown up and sure enough, even though she only gets to be on the computer at the library, here she comes:



bobbolink  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)     Mon Nov-09-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
35. If we are to be deprived of the basic necessities of life, then not only allow people to "check out"
   
but provide the painless means to do so.

Clearly, if we aren't worth being kept alive, then we aren't wanted, and should be allowed to leave this mess.

Face up to what YOUR values are.


Oh, poor, poor Bobbolink!  She can't even afford the means to shuffle herself off this mortal coil without government assistance.  I'm certain she'd be the first to queue up for ObamaCare provided painless lethal injections for the worthless.
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Offline Duchess

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2009, 07:25:30 AM »
Quote from: whiffleball on November 12, 2009, 07:06:39 AM
I had to row over to see if the Bobbling One had shown up and sure enough, even though she only gets to be on the computer at the library, here she comes:



bobbolink  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)     Mon Nov-09-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
35. If we are to be deprived of the basic necessities of life, then not only allow people to "check out"
   
but provide the painless means to do so.

Clearly, if we aren't worth being kept alive, then we aren't wanted, and should be allowed to leave this mess.

Face up to what YOUR values are.


Oh, poor, poor Bobbolink!  She can't even afford the means to shuffle herself off this mortal coil without government assistance.  I'm certain she'd be the first to queue up for ObamaCare provided painless lethal injections for the worthless.

If this loser expended as much energy on getting a job and doing it well in order to keep it, as she does on moaning at the DUmp, and looking for yet more ways to scam producers out of the fruits of their labor through government "entitlements", she could have a fairly good life.  I'd like to know where these losers' "rights" would be if all the people in the US who actually work for a living, just sat down and said "forget it, I have enough for me and my family, I'm tired of subsidising lazy parasites". If only that was possible. Our thieving government, starting with Wilson's "temporary" income tax to pay for WWI, made sure that would never be possible. The more my family is forced to pay in "taxes" (stolen money, labor, and time), the less I have of "compassion".
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2009, 08:35:23 AM »
Quote from: Rebel on November 11, 2009, 10:58:40 PM
Good God, some of those f'n idiots need to have their voting rights revoked.

He DUmbasses, it takes working people to make the world go round, you f'n idiots.  :censored:

voting rights?  I move to have their entire heads revoked!  Srsly, I agree with Dixiebelle - the post made my head hurt.
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Offline jtyangel

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2009, 09:29:09 AM »
Quote from: dandi on November 11, 2009, 09:32:45 PM
A right is an activity one can exercise that requires no effort or sacrifice on the part of anyone else. Any government-mandated benefit one receives which requires involuntary effort or sacrifice on someone else's part is an entitlement.

You have no "right" to what is mine, be it money, food, clothing, shelter, property, labor, whatever, just because you were born in the same country as I or have less than I. I may elect to be charitable and give stuff to you, or laws may be passed with or without my consent which redistribute my wealth to you through taxation, but you don't have a "right" to jack shit that belongs to me


Well said, I may have to quote you dandi so my liberal friends can understand this basic difference(since they still cry right, right, right at every turn).
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2009, 10:42:32 AM »
Read this and weep, DUmbasses!

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I don't see "food clothes and shelter" anywhere in there, but knowing how you asshats think, they must be in the "certain unalienable Rights" quote, right?

Oh, and "Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of happiness", ARE the "necessities of life", dipshit!
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2009, 10:48:41 AM »
Quote from:
bobbolink

If we are to be deprived of the basic necessities of life, then not only allow people to "check out" but provide the painless means to do so.

How much does a 50 caplet bottle of Tylenol cost?  Less than $10, I suspect.

.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2009, 10:57:48 AM »
Quote from: USA4ME on November 12, 2009, 10:48:41 AM
How much does a 50 caplet bottle of Tylenol cost?  Less than $10, I suspect.

.


Actually, she could just find a nice high bridge........it would also be "free"......

doc
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