What the **** OVER!!!!!!!

[Crazy Horse]

I swear............the goverment drives me crazy.......crazy I tell ya

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/ea_china_02_04.asp

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Monday, February 4, 2008       Free Headline Alerts

China brokered sale of F-14 spare parts to Iran

WASHINGTON — The United States has learned that China was serving as a front for the illegal export of spare parts of the F-14 fighter-jet to Iran.
Officials said China has brokered purchases of F-14 spare parts for Iran's military. They said most of the components were obtained from surplus offered by the U.S. Defense Department.

"The Department of Defense should not be supplying sensitive military equipment to our adversaries, our enemies, terrorists," Rep. Christopher Shays, a Connecticut Republican, said.

Shays said the Pentagon must end the sale of F-14 spare parts, Middle East Newsline reported. He said Iran was the only country that operated the F-14 Tomcat, a 1970s-era platform retired by the U.S. Navy.
Officials said Iran has been desperate to find spare parts to maintain its F-14 and F-4 fleet, procured from the United States in the early 1970s. They said Iran has achieved the capability of producing about 15 percent of the F-14.
<snip>

 

[Lauri]

so... i'm reading Charlie Wilson's War ..

and in this story, he supplies the Afghan rebels in the early 80s (who are fighting against the Communist Russians) with Russian stamped weapons so as not to tip anyone off that the US is supplying these weapons.

well, fast forward a few decades and the Afghan rebels, and most Muslims, have no idea how the US helped them out in terms of running off Russia - and so they turn and attack the US repeatedly.


our govt is nothing short of brilliant at selling weapons (or giving them) to countries who continually screw us over..

[Attero Dominatus]

And yet most of our government officials insist that China is a friend. Duncan Hunter was about the only official who saw China as a threat.

[Bh]

F-14's would be child's play for our F-22's and our vastly superior pilots.

[The Night Owl]

F-14's would be child's play for our F-22's and our vastly superior pilots.

Not necessarily. If the Iranians were to send up F-14s, they wouldn't be sending them up to tangle with F-22s but rather to get them in firing range of US vessels- not a tall order for fast planes which carry long range missiles.

[Attero Dominatus]

F-14's would be child's play for our F-22's and our vastly superior pilots.

Not necessarily. If the Iranians were to send up F-14s, they wouldn't be sending them up to tangle with F-22s but rather to get them in firing range of US vessels- not a tall order for fast planes which carry long range missiles.

Then they would probably be intercepted by the F/A-18 Hornets from the carriers.

[TheSarge]

The F-14's that the Iranians have...had just been delivered to the Shah in 1979...they've never flown to my knowledge...the Grumman Tech's did something to disable them just before they left town.

Not to mention they are early models with the less powerful engines and older tech radar and firing systems.

They'd never get in range of a U.S. Navy Battle group.  The DG's would pick them up long before they'd pose a threat.

The Iranians are just grasping in the dark hoping the "spare parts" contain something to get those planes working again.

[Crazy Horse]

F-14's would be child's play for our F-22's and our vastly superior pilots.

Not necessarily. If the Iranians were to send up F-14s, they wouldn't be sending them up to tangle with F-22s but rather to get them in firing range of US vessels- not a tall order for fast planes which carry long range missiles.

You show the same knowledge of the military and tactics as other primitives.

Between SPY radars, E2C hawkeyes, AWACS and JSTARS...............we'd know if the the Iranian pilot farted on the taxi way.

Yes sarge I believe a couple flew in that great victory the Iranians had in 1987

[Airwolf]

The Islamic Republic Of Irans Air Force has indeed been able to use their F-14s as both a fighter and as a Type of AWACS sing the AGW-9 weapon system and radar. While they didn't eactly have the same air to air Kills ratio of the Israelies they didn't just sit on the runway during those 8 years of having at it with Saddam and his little scout troops.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_211.shtml

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_212.shtml

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0077.shtml

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f14_6.html

[The Night Owl]

Between SPY radars, E2C hawkeyes, AWACS and JSTARS...............we'd know if the the Iranian pilot farted on the taxi way.

Knowing when the F-14s are taking off is one thing. Shooting down the F-14s before they get in firing range is another thing- considerably more difficult.

Look, I doubt that the Iranians would try to attack a US Navy ship. Attacking a US Navy ship would be a suicidal action for the Iranian government to undertake and the Iranian government has not shown itself to be suicidal. All I'm saying is that underestimating a muscular plane such as the F-14 is a mistake. Keep in mind that history is full of examples of inferior planes getting the better of superior planes. What matters most is the pilot and the situation.

[The Night Owl]

The Islamic Republic Of Irans Air Force has indeed been able to use their F-14s as both a fighter and as a Type of AWACS sing the AGW-9 weapon system and radar. While they didn't eactly have the same air to air Kills ratio of the Israelies they didn't just sit on the runway during those 8 years of having at it with Saddam and his little scout troops.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_211.shtml

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_212.shtml

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0077.shtml

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f14_6.html

Thank you for the links to the interesting articles.

[Rebel]

Between SPY radars, E2C hawkeyes, AWACS and JSTARS...............we'd know if the the Iranian pilot farted on the taxi way.

Knowing when the F-14s are taking off is one thing. Shooting down the F-14s before they get in firing range is another thing- considerably more difficult.

Track, Lock, Fire. Not that hard.

[Bh]

I think I saw it on "Future Weapons" where an F-22 pilot was saying they had war gamed 1 F-22 against 12 F-18's, and the F-22 took out all 12 F-18's before the F-18's ever saw the F-22. Iranian flown F-14's? Pfffft.

[The Night Owl]

I think I saw it on "Future Weapons" where an F-22 pilot was saying they had war gamed 1 F-22 against 12 F-18's, and the F-22 took out all 12 F-18's before the F-18's ever saw the F-22. Iranian flown F-14's? Pfffft.

I doubt that an F-22 Raptor downed 12 F-18 Hornets. The Raptor carries only 8 air-to-air missiles and two of those have to be used at very close range. Even if a Raptor were able to use its missiles to dispatch 8 out of 12 Hornets, that would leave 4 Hornets that the Raptor would have to dispatch with guns only. The Raptor might be able to survive or even win a gunfight against 4 Hornets, but I highly doubt that it can prevent all of them from disengaging.

Anyway, the Future Weapons segment on the F-22 Raptor can be seen at the following site...

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v2585742cGs7EWgF

One of the people interviewed in the FW segment mentions some sort of test engagement of Raptors and Hornets but does not give the specifics on the result of that engagement.

Look, I agree that Tomcats don't pose much of a threat to US Navy ships which are aware of their intentions, but in the opening moves of any conflict, the intentions of the various players are often not known and shit happens. That said, my money will always be on the F-22. 

[Crazy Horse]

I think I saw it on "Future Weapons" where an F-22 pilot was saying they had war gamed 1 F-22 against 12 F-18's, and the F-22 took out all 12 F-18's before the F-18's ever saw the F-22. Iranian flown F-14's? Pfffft.

I doubt that an F-22 Raptor downed 12 F-18 Hornets. The Raptor carries only 8 air-to-air missiles and two of those have to be used at very close range. Even if a Raptor were able to use its missiles to dispatch 8 out of 12 Hornets, that would leave 4 Hornets that the Raptor would have to dispatch with guns only. The Raptor might be able to survive or even win a gunfight against 4 Hornets, but I highly doubt that it can prevent all of them from disengaging.

Anyway, the Future Weapons segment on the F-22 Raptor can be seen at the following site...

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v2585742cGs7EWgF

One of the people interviewed in the FW segment mentions some sort of test engagement of Raptors and Hornets but does not give the specifics on the result of that engagement.

Look, I agree that Tomcats don't pose much of a threat to US Navy ships which are aware of their intentions, but in the opening moves of any conflict, the intentions of the various players are often not known and shit happens. That said, my money will always be on the F-22. 

Why not just stay out of converstations you don't know anything about.

Why could a F22 not down 12 F/A-18's??

[The Night Owl]

Why not just stay out of converstations you don't know anything about.

Why could a F22 not down 12 F/A-18's??

Perhaps you missed the part where I pointed out that the F-22 carries no more than 8 air-to-air missiles?

[Rebel]

Why not just stay out of converstations you don't know anything about.

Why could a F22 not down 12 F/A-18's??

Perhaps you missed the part where I pointed out that the F-22 carries no more than 8 air-to-air missiles?

Perhaps you need to do some more research. There are 3 different loadouts for the F-22 and you can never count out the 20mm Gatling gun it carries.

[The Night Owl]

Perhaps you need to do some more research. There are 3 different loadouts for the F-22 and you can never count out the 20mm Gatling gun it carries.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-22-weaps-mg27.gif

The diagram confirms what I have been saying. In combat configuration, the F-22 carries 8 air-to-air missiles.

The F-22 can be configured to carry external missiles in addition to internal ordnance, but such a configuration greatly reduces the plane's stealth and maneuvering advantage. As far as I know, the external combat configuration has not been implemented yet.

[Rebel]

The F-22 can be configured to carry external missiles, but such a configuration eliminates the plane's stealth advantage and has not, to my knowledge, been implemented yet.

How does it confirm what you're saying? You think the 22 has to be stealth to shoot down an F/A-18? Riiiggghhhhttt.t. The damn thing is the only plane on our MTOE, to my knowledge, that can fly supersonic without burning it's afterburners. You can load that damn thing to the max. It doesn't have to be stealth to lock onto an F/A-18 and blow it out of the sky. Not to mention it's thrust-vectoring capabilities that make it much more maneuverable.

[Crazy Horse]

Perhaps you need to do some more research. There are 3 different loadouts for the F-22 and you can never count out the 20mm Gatling gun it carries.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-22-weaps-mg27.gif

The diagram confirms what I have been saying. In combat configuration, the F-22 carries 8 air-to-air missiles.

The F-22 can be configured to carry external missiles in addition to internal ordnance, but such a configuration eliminates the plane's stealth advantage and has not, to my knowledge, been implemented yet.

Hmmm..............8 missles internally........8 missles externally................wait let me check my math...........yeah, that's 16. Stealth is not all a F-22 has for an advantage.

You are saying that the F-22 has no hardpoints on it's wings yet...........

Maybe you should pay attention to everything............again I ask, Why could a F-22 not shoot down 12 F-18's?

[The Night Owl]

How does it confirm what you're saying? You think the 22 has to be stealth to shoot down an F/A-18? Riiiggghhhhttt.t. The damn thing is the only plane on our MTOE, to my knowledge, that can fly supersonic without burning it's afterburners. You can load that damn thing to the max. It doesn't have to be stealth to lock onto an F/A-18 and blow it out of the sky. Not to mention it's thrust-vectoring capabilities that make it much more maneuverable.

Like I said... As far as I know, the external combat configuration which allows the F-22 to carry missiles externally has not been implemented. If you can find me a photo of an F-22 carrying missiles externally in a combat configuration, I would love to see it.

[Crazy Horse]

How does it confirm what you're saying? You think the 22 has to be stealth to shoot down an F/A-18? Riiiggghhhhttt.t. The damn thing is the only plane on our MTOE, to my knowledge, that can fly supersonic without burning it's afterburners. You can load that damn thing to the max. It doesn't have to be stealth to lock onto an F/A-18 and blow it out of the sky. Not to mention it's thrust-vectoring capabilities that make it much more maneuverable.

Like I said... As far as I know, the external combat configuration which allows the F-22 to carry missiles externally has not been implemented. If you can find me a photo of an F-22 carrying missiles externally in a combat configuration, I would love to see it.

You are a dumbass

[Bh]

Look Mr. Owl, let's say you're right and it only has 8 air to air missiles, then the guy must have said the F-22 was 8-0. The point is the stealth capability of the F-22 allowed it to remain essentially invisible to the F-18's while the F-22 locked on them and fired it's missiles. Maybe it was on the Military channel, there's been several shows produced on the F-22. For starters the Iranian F-14's radar's would get jammed as soon as they took off, no contest. And this is what's next:


F-35 Joint Strike fighter, probably the last manned fighter.

[The Night Owl]

You are a dumbass

I've already seen photos of the F-22 carrying external fuel tanks. I asked for a photo of an F-22 carrying external missiles. Keep looking.

[The Night Owl]

Look Mr. Owl, let's say you're right and it only has 8 air to air missiles, then the guy must have said the F-22 was 8-0.

The guy did not say that the Raptor shot down 8 Hornets.