Author Topic: The real reason the economy... (Read 6239 times)

Chris_ · « **on:** July 25, 2008, 10:28:51 PM »

In a previous thread, I didn't respond to a question asked of me....

jtyangel asked:

Are you insinuating these companies are punished by God? Just curious.

I will respond with a question:

If a person who knows and understands the commandment about Honoring their mother and father as it is the first commandment with a promise: that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth, and that person chooses to not honor their father and mother, and things do not go well for that person, is that a punishment from God?

Lilsson

Ps I am ready and willing to argue my initial points. Walmart and Exxon Mobil do not offer domestic partner benefits, and they are the number 1 and number 2 companies in the US. What would really irk me if I was a CEO of a major manufacturing organization in the US would be to have a company that doesn't really make anything be ahead of me on the Fortune list. Hey Michael Dell, or Mark Hurd (HP), Waggoner(GM) and whoever took over for Bill Ford, doesn't that bother you guys in the least bit?

Chris_ · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2008, 12:54:57 PM »

Actually, no it doesn't bother them......I can speak as a long-time employee (now retired) in executive management for one of the companies on your list......what they ARE interested in are; (generally in this order).......

Today's trading range for the companies' common shares (it's posted in the executive elevator, and updated every 15 minutes)........

The earnings forecast for the upcoming quarter.........

Year-to-date market share.........

Not that I don't disagree with your initial premise (as I understand it)........that domestic partner benefits are not a good thing for a company to offer, they just don't factor into boardroom thinking.....generally left up to the HR Director, unless they develop into a huge publicity flap.......

As an aside, my present employer DOES NOT offer domestic partner benefits, and is unabashadly anti-homosexual.......and haven't made a dime in net profit for nearly a decade.........are they being punished by GOD for doing the right thing??

doc

RightCoast · « **Reply #2 on:** July 26, 2008, 02:53:01 PM »

Quote from: Lilsson on July 25, 2008, 10:28:51 PM

I will respond with a question:

How about responding with an answer?

Quote from: Lilsson on July 25, 2008, 10:28:51 PM

Ps I am ready and willing to argue my initial points.

Why now and not before

Quote from: Lilsson on July 25, 2008, 10:28:51 PM

What would really irk me if I was a CEO of a major manufacturing organization

Well, we'll never really have to worry about that will we?

Chris_ · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2008, 11:38:08 PM »

Doc Said:
As an aside, my present employer DOES NOT offer domestic partner benefits, and is unabashadly anti-homosexual.......and haven't made a dime in net profit for nearly a decade.........are they being punished by GOD for doing the right thing??

Why is everyone concerned about whether or not someone believes or doesn't believe that something is God's punishment? There are natural laws that are in place. Give and it shall be given unto you. Does your company support any soup kitchens or halfway houses in the area? Does your give to anything besides United Way. In my opinion giving to large organizations like United Way or Red Cross, is like not giving at all.

Lilsson

Chris_ · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2008, 11:43:17 PM »

Quote from: Lilsson on July 28, 2008, 11:38:08 PM

Doc Said:
As an aside, my present employer DOES NOT offer domestic partner benefits, and is unabashadly anti-homosexual.......and haven't made a dime in net profit for nearly a decade.........are they being punished by GOD for doing the right thing??

Why is everyone concerned about whether or not someone believes or doesn't believe that something is God's punishment? There are natural laws that are in place. Give and it shall be given unto you. Does your company support any soup kitchens or halfway houses in the area? Does your give to anything besides United Way. In my opinion giving to large organizations like United Way or Red Cross, is like not giving at all.

Lilsson

Is there a point to your babbling? You really shouldn't drink and post -- especially on a forum to which you are new.

Are you somehow linking "God's Punishment" to charitable activities on This Mortal Coil? Or to the Heart of those who give?

You need to make sense to make a point.

Chris_ · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2008, 11:58:32 PM »

I get on about once a week and it may take several days for me to respond.

Lilsson

ps Honest questions will get honest answers. And I am not the one doing the drinking...

Chris_ · « **Reply #6 on:** July 29, 2008, 12:01:19 AM »

Quote from: Lilsson on July 28, 2008, 11:58:32 PM

I get on about once a week and it may take several days for me to respond.

Lilsson

ps Honest questions will get honest answers. And I am not the one doing the drinking...

Well, we will see you in a few weeks when you make sense.

asdf2231 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 29, 2008, 12:33:25 AM »

Quote from: Lilsson on July 28, 2008, 11:38:08 PM

In my opinion giving to large organizations like United Way or Red Cross, is like not giving at all.

Lilsson

I have done disaster relief work since Hurricane Katrina.

If you think that donations to the Red Cross are like not giving at all than you are an idiot.

Chris_ · « **Reply #8 on:** July 29, 2008, 12:56:46 AM »

Quote from: asdf2231 on July 29, 2008, 12:33:25 AM

Quote from: Lilsson on July 28, 2008, 11:38:08 PM
In my opinion giving to large organizations like United Way or Red Cross, is like not giving at all.

Lilsson

I have done disaster relief work since Hurricane Katrina.

If you think that donations to the Red Cross are like not giving at all than you are an idiot.

Pretty easy to catch them. Like "Deadliest Catch," the nonsensical crabmouth is easy to trap in the sensible thinking pots.

MrsSmith · « **Reply #9 on:** July 29, 2008, 06:42:40 AM »

Quote from: Lilsson on July 25, 2008, 10:28:51 PM

In a previous thread, I didn't respond to a question asked of me....

jtyangel asked:

Are you insinuating these companies are punished by God? Just curious.

I will respond with a question:

If a person who knows and understands the commandment about Honoring their mother and father as it is the first commandment with a promise: that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth, and that person chooses to not honor their father and mother, and things do not go well for that person, is that a punishment from God?

Lilsson

Ps I am ready and willing to argue my initial points. Walmart and Exxon Mobil do not offer domestic partner benefits, and they are the number 1 and number 2 companies in the US. What would really irk me if I was a CEO of a major manufacturing organization in the US would be to have a company that doesn't really make anything be ahead of me on the Fortune list. Hey Michael Dell, or Mark Hurd (HP), Waggoner(GM) and whoever took over for Bill Ford, doesn't that bother you guys in the least bit?

Michael Dell, Mark Hurd, Waggoner and whoever probably don't post here, Lil. I guess your initial premise is that God rewards companies that follow His commandments. This may be true, but you've really not made your point. Plenty of companies, and people, that do not obey still make very nice profits. Plenty of companies, and people, that do obey still just barely scrape by. God does not always reward people, or companies, with worldly wealth.

Lauri · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:29:55 PM »

Quote from: MrsSmith on July 29, 2008, 06:42:40 AM

Quote from: Lilsson on July 25, 2008, 10:28:51 PM
In a previous thread, I didn't respond to a question asked of me....

jtyangel asked:

Are you insinuating these companies are punished by God? Just curious.

I will respond with a question:

If a person who knows and understands the commandment about Honoring their mother and father as it is the first commandment with a promise: that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth, and that person chooses to not honor their father and mother, and things do not go well for that person, is that a punishment from God?

Lilsson

Ps I am ready and willing to argue my initial points. Walmart and Exxon Mobil do not offer domestic partner benefits, and they are the number 1 and number 2 companies in the US. What would really irk me if I was a CEO of a major manufacturing organization in the US would be to have a company that doesn't really make anything be ahead of me on the Fortune list. Hey Michael Dell, or Mark Hurd (HP), Waggoner(GM) and whoever took over for Bill Ford, doesn't that bother you guys in the least bit?
Michael Dell, Mark Hurd, Waggoner and whoever probably don't post here, Lil. I guess your initial premise is that God rewards companies that follow His commandments. This may be true, but you've really not made your point. Plenty of companies, and people, that do not obey still make very nice profits. Plenty of companies, and people, that do obey still just barely scrape by. God does not always reward people, or companies, with worldly wealth.

the OP is making some illogical blunder, like, "all companies employ the same like minded people"

"Companies" are not one being; they are made up of LOTS of individuals who may or may not obey the Commandments.

broad brushes just arent good for debate..

jtyangel · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:36:29 PM »

Quote from: Lilsson on July 28, 2008, 11:38:08 PM

Doc Said:
As an aside, my present employer DOES NOT offer domestic partner benefits, and is unabashadly anti-homosexual.......and haven't made a dime in net profit for nearly a decade.........are they being punished by GOD for doing the right thing??

Why is everyone concerned about whether or not someone believes or doesn't believe that something is God's punishment? There are natural laws that are in place. Give and it shall be given unto you. Does your company support any soup kitchens or halfway houses in the area? Does your give to anything besides United Way. In my opinion giving to large organizations like United Way or Red Cross, is like not giving at all.

Lilsson

This is simply untrue. Even the most generous Christians are not always 'rewarded' in the way one would expect to be on earth for their good deeds. That runs contrary to Christian belief. By the same token, expecting punishment ON THIS EARTH for misdeeds is equally misdirected. Some very corrupt individuals made a lot of earthly rewards and were 'rewarded'. And a lot of very giving people left the world with 'only' the greatest gift from God: eternal salvation.

You are operating on the premise that obeying God's law will bring you earthly rewards or punishment. That's just not what it's all about.

If I've misunderstood you, then I apologize, but this is how I am reading your statement.

jtyangel · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:37:35 PM »

Quote from: MrsSmith on July 29, 2008, 06:42:40 AM

Quote from: Lilsson on July 25, 2008, 10:28:51 PM
In a previous thread, I didn't respond to a question asked of me....

jtyangel asked:

Are you insinuating these companies are punished by God? Just curious.

I will respond with a question:

If a person who knows and understands the commandment about Honoring their mother and father as it is the first commandment with a promise: that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth, and that person chooses to not honor their father and mother, and things do not go well for that person, is that a punishment from God?

Lilsson

Ps I am ready and willing to argue my initial points. Walmart and Exxon Mobil do not offer domestic partner benefits, and they are the number 1 and number 2 companies in the US. What would really irk me if I was a CEO of a major manufacturing organization in the US would be to have a company that doesn't really make anything be ahead of me on the Fortune list. Hey Michael Dell, or Mark Hurd (HP), Waggoner(GM) and whoever took over for Bill Ford, doesn't that bother you guys in the least bit?
Michael Dell, Mark Hurd, Waggoner and whoever probably don't post here, Lil. I guess your initial premise is that God rewards companies that follow His commandments. This may be true, but you've really not made your point. Plenty of companies, and people, that do not obey still make very nice profits. Plenty of companies, and people, that do obey still just barely scrape by. God does not always reward people, or companies, with worldly wealth.

Hi5

Toastedturningtidelegs · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2008, 06:33:00 PM »

Quote from: Lilsson on July 25, 2008, 10:28:51 PM

In a previous thread, I didn't respond to a question asked of me....

jtyangel asked:

Are you insinuating these companies are punished by God? Just curious.

I will respond with a question:

If a person who knows and understands the commandment about Honoring their mother and father as it is the first commandment with a promise: that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth, and that person chooses to not honor their father and mother, and things do not go well for that person, is that a punishment from God?

Lilsson

Ps I am ready and willing to argue my initial points. Walmart and Exxon Mobil do not offer domestic partner benefits, and they are the number 1 and number 2 companies in the US. What would really irk me if I was a CEO of a major manufacturing organization in the US would be to have a company that doesn't really make anything be ahead of me on the Fortune list. Hey Michael Dell, or Mark Hurd (HP), Waggoner(GM) and whoever took over for Bill Ford, doesn't that bother you guys in the least bit?

The punishment comes in the afterlife! If you really believe that. Otherwise why are such evil people like Saddam,Pol Pot,Stalin and Adolf Hitler allowed such free reign while they lived without being punished by The Almighty while they were here?

Chris_ · « **Reply #14 on:** August 02, 2008, 10:09:49 AM »

Quote from: MrsSmith on July 29, 2008, 06:42:40 AM

Quote from: Lilsson on July 25, 2008, 10:28:51 PM
In a previous thread, I didn't respond to a question asked of me....

jtyangel asked:

Are you insinuating these companies are punished by God? Just curious.

I will respond with a question:

If a person who knows and understands the commandment about Honoring their mother and father as it is the first commandment with a promise: that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth, and that person chooses to not honor their father and mother, and things do not go well for that person, is that a punishment from God?

Lilsson

Ps I am ready and willing to argue my initial points. Walmart and Exxon Mobil do not offer domestic partner benefits, and they are the number 1 and number 2 companies in the US. What would really irk me if I was a CEO of a major manufacturing organization in the US would be to have a company that doesn't really make anything be ahead of me on the Fortune list. Hey Michael Dell, or Mark Hurd (HP), Waggoner(GM) and whoever took over for Bill Ford, doesn't that bother you guys in the least bit?
Michael Dell, Mark Hurd, Waggoner and whoever probably don't post here, Lil. I guess your initial premise is that God rewards companies that follow His commandments. This may be true, but you've really not made your point. Plenty of companies, and people, that do not obey still make very nice profits. Plenty of companies, and people, that do obey still just barely scrape by. God does not always reward people, or companies, with worldly wealth.

My initial premise is the nuclear family is the foundation of society and civilization. I would also consider this premise a natural law. When someone or some group goes against the foundation of society, they will not prosper. It is not only domestic partner benefits. I know of a clinic that has been around for over fifty years. It became a pro-choice clinic some time ago, and have radio spots stating so. The Clinic has been in a decline for about the same amount of time. Unless it changes that policy, it will not prosper. I worked in the defense industry for some time and one of our board of directors was the Head of International Planned parenthood. We had bid and lost contracts for a long time, then this person took a leave of absence for two years. We won several major contracts while this person was on the leave. When that person came back, we moved back into the mold of bidding and losing. That company was bought out by another defense contractor, and my opinion is that they used money from the company I worked for to seal the deal. There are other examples that I could share, but I won't at this time. My premise hasn't changed, and though many have chimed in, most attack me personally rather than addressing the issue I brought. Exxon Mobil and Walmart are the No.1 and No.2 companies in the US. Neither of those companies offer domestic partner benefits.

So here is something to watch: Walmart and McDonalds are both doing the same thing right now. Basically distancing themselves from the majority, and catering to people who have chosen to live in a minority role. That is not the same as underwriting that behavior with providing domestic partner benefits but it will have an effect on the companies. One would have to factor in the boycotts also in place which will definitely have an affect on Mickey D's.

*EDITED TO ADD ORIGINAL QUOTES*

Please use the quote function. Thanks --DixieBelle

TheSarge · « **Reply #15 on:** August 02, 2008, 01:14:49 PM »

Quote from: Lilsson on July 28, 2008, 11:38:08 PM

Doc Said:
As an aside, my present employer DOES NOT offer domestic partner benefits, and is unabashadly anti-homosexual.......and haven't made a dime in net profit for nearly a decade.........are they being punished by GOD for doing the right thing??

Why is everyone concerned about whether or not someone believes or doesn't believe that something is God's punishment? There are natural laws that are in place. Give and it shall be given unto you. Does your company support any soup kitchens or halfway houses in the area? Does your give to anything besides United Way. In my opinion giving to large organizations like United Way or Red Cross, is like not giving at all.

Lilsson

Chris_ · « **Reply #16 on:** August 02, 2008, 01:22:31 PM »

Quote from: TheSarge on August 02, 2008, 01:14:49 PM

Quote from: Lilsson on July 28, 2008, 11:38:08 PM
Doc Said:
As an aside, my present employer DOES NOT offer domestic partner benefits, and is unabashadly anti-homosexual.......and haven't made a dime in net profit for nearly a decade.........are they being punished by GOD for doing the right thing??

Why is everyone concerned about whether or not someone believes or doesn't believe that something is God's punishment? There are natural laws that are in place. Give and it shall be given unto you. Does your company support any soup kitchens or halfway houses in the area? Does your give to anything besides United Way. In my opinion giving to large organizations like United Way or Red Cross, is like not giving at all.

Lilsson

Is that a picture rebus?

Wait -- I just got it!!! (LOL)

asdf2231 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 04, 2008, 05:52:51 PM »

Quote from: TheSarge on August 02, 2008, 01:14:49 PM

H5 and I SO stole that!

formerlurker · « **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2008, 06:17:30 PM »

Quote from: Lilsson on August 02, 2008, 10:09:49 AM

Quote from: MrsSmith on July 29, 2008, 06:42:40 AM
Quote from: Lilsson on July 25, 2008, 10:28:51 PM
In a previous thread, I didn't respond to a question asked of me....

jtyangel asked:

Are you insinuating these companies are punished by God? Just curious.

I will respond with a question:

If a person who knows and understands the commandment about Honoring their mother and father as it is the first commandment with a promise: that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth, and that person chooses to not honor their father and mother, and things do not go well for that person, is that a punishment from God?

Lilsson

Ps I am ready and willing to argue my initial points. Walmart and Exxon Mobil do not offer domestic partner benefits, and they are the number 1 and number 2 companies in the US. What would really irk me if I was a CEO of a major manufacturing organization in the US would be to have a company that doesn't really make anything be ahead of me on the Fortune list. Hey Michael Dell, or Mark Hurd (HP), Waggoner(GM) and whoever took over for Bill Ford, doesn't that bother you guys in the least bit?
Michael Dell, Mark Hurd, Waggoner and whoever probably don't post here, Lil. I guess your initial premise is that God rewards companies that follow His commandments. This may be true, but you've really not made your point. Plenty of companies, and people, that do not obey still make very nice profits. Plenty of companies, and people, that do obey still just barely scrape by. God does not always reward people, or companies, with worldly wealth.
My initial premise is the nuclear family is the foundation of society and civilization. I would also consider this premise a natural law. When someone or some group goes against the foundation of society, they will not prosper. It is not only domestic partner benefits. I know of a clinic that has been around for over fifty years. It became a pro-choice clinic some time ago, and have radio spots stating so. The Clinic has been in a decline for about the same amount of time. Unless it changes that policy, it will not prosper. I worked in the defense industry for some time and one of our board of directors was the Head of International Planned parenthood. We had bid and lost contracts for a long time, then this person took a leave of absence for two years. We won several major contracts while this person was on the leave. When that person came back, we moved back into the mold of bidding and losing. That company was bought out by another defense contractor, and my opinion is that they used money from the company I worked for to seal the deal. There are other examples that I could share, but I won't at this time. My premise hasn't changed, and though many have chimed in, most attack me personally rather than addressing the issue I brought. Exxon Mobil and Walmart are the No.1 and No.2 companies in the US. Neither of those companies offer domestic partner benefits.

So here is something to watch: Walmart and McDonalds are both doing the same thing right now. Basically distancing themselves from the majority, and catering to people who have chosen to live in a minority role. That is not the same as underwriting that behavior with providing domestic partner benefits but it will have an effect on the companies. One would have to factor in the boycotts also in place which will definitely have an affect on Mickey D's.

*EDITED TO ADD ORIGINAL QUOTES*

Please use the quote function. Thanks --DixieBelle

You have never been to MA -- pretty much every major company offers same sex partner benefits.

Your argument is a bizarre one indeed, and really holds no basis in truth whatsoever.

Chris_ · « **Reply #19 on:** August 05, 2008, 10:40:13 PM »

[/quote]

You have never been to MA -- pretty much every major company offers same sex partner benefits.

Your argument is a bizarre one indeed, and really holds no basis in truth whatsoever.

[/quote]

Name a major company in MA that offers domestic partner benefits, then we can take a look at how they are doing financially. Is Bear/Stearns based in MA? What about Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. I recall DEC was a large employer there, bought out by HP. HP numbers may be OK for now, but that's because they are firing people in the US making six figures and hiring PRC workers in Shanghai for six dollars a day. I am not the one using the broad brush here. There is one company that I believe took my advice and changed their benefit package. Maybe I will start a new thread and write about that company. Afterall, this is a discussion of economics...

Lilsson

Chris_ · « **Reply #20 on:** August 07, 2008, 12:41:06 AM »

I am still working on getting the quoting to work right, but I did check several companies in MA. One was EMC, which appears to be a dpb type company. The stock is trading at around $14 dollars, which is a laughable value for a company with the revenue it generates, like Ford and GM. Gee what companies are doing well in the US and don't offer domestic partner benee's? Exxon/Mobil, Walmart, and though I can't be 100% certain, I emailed Steve Jobs when Apple was trading at around $11 dollars, just after the Big Bill Bailout, and explained the situation, and the remedy. Three months later there was a writeup in Computerworld magazine that Steve had made major changes to the benefit packages at Apple, but the article didn't say what the changes were. I thought that was a bit odd. But since that time, Apple stock has done extremely well.
Lilsson

MrsSmith · « **Reply #21 on:** August 07, 2008, 07:15:08 PM »

Seriously, God does not reward all the faithful with worldly wealth...even companies.

Chris_ · « **Reply #22 on:** August 07, 2008, 11:25:26 PM »

Quote from: MrsSmith on August 07, 2008, 07:15:08 PM

Seriously, God does not reward all the faithful with worldly wealth...even companies.

I think God gives us laughter in this world -- everything else is pretty unimportant.

In the next world I get to be with my Mom and my departed kitties Neysa and Musica. And eventually Mrs. FD (I assume I will go first).

A loving God would do no less. And I know God will reward us accordingly.

A chat with Jesus wold be pretty cool, but it isn't what I ask of Heaven.

I am not being facetious -- this is what I believe. It also reflects what I think love means.

Chris_ · « **Reply #23 on:** August 08, 2008, 12:05:19 AM »

Quote from: MrsSmith on August 07, 2008, 07:15:08 PM

Seriously, God does not reward all the faithful with worldly wealth...even companies.

He doesn't but the natural laws he has put in place work. That is why the Mormon Church, and for that matter most tithing Mormons or JDubs are better off financially. Deep down they want to believe that they are being blessed by God. They are not. God instituted the tithe and the offering, and it works regardless of whether or not the person is a Christian. Again my initial point is that God is pro-family, and when companies put any other lifestyle on par with the nuclear family and fund that lifestyle, the company is going to take the financial roller coaster ride down, and they will not pull out until they change that policy. No comments on EMC in MA. Should I just go down the list? I did listen to the CEO of Freddie Mac yesterday. He sounds like he was born and bred in MA.

Lilsson

rich_t · « **Reply #24 on:** August 08, 2008, 12:17:42 AM »

Quote

Name a major company in MA that offers domestic partner benefits

Name some that don't.

News:

Author Topic: The real reason the economy... (Read 6239 times)