Don't cry for me Argentina

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

dipsydoodle (31,629 posts)

Argentina may defy NY courts with payment offer

 Source: Associated Press

 BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) -- With just hours to go before Argentina has to show its last cards in a billion-dollar debt showdown in the U.S. courts, President Cristina Fernandez seems to be keeping up her "we're going for more" motto. Her government is reportedly preparing a response that analysts say could lead the country into another catastrophic default.
 
Argentina has until midnight Friday to propose how it would satisfy a $1.4 billion judgment won by plaintiffs who have insisted for a decade on getting full payment in cash, plus interest and penalties, on sovereign debt that the country hasn't paid since its world-record default in 2002.
 
Government officials weren't talking in public about the plan this week, but they have repeatedly said that the plaintiffs it considers "vulture funds" should get no better than what 92 percent of other investors in Argentina accepted in 2005 and 2010 in exchange for their defaulted bonds: a package of new bonds that were initially worth less than 30 cents on the dollar.
 
The exact details likely won't be known until just before the deadline, but the broader aspects have been widely reported in Argentina's media: Rather than the quick cash payout ordered by the courts, it will offer new bonds that won't come fully due for up to 35 years. And rather than pay in full, the government will insist on paying no more than 30 percent to start with.
 
Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_ARGENTINA_DEBT_SHOWDOWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-03-29-03-47-05

Fuddnik (4,067 posts)

4. Paul Singer and Vulture Funds.

International collection agencies.

Buy third world debt for pennies on he dollar. Demand full face value, and start seizing a countries assets and aid to collect.

idwiyo (1,221 posts)

5. Tell them to **** off, Argentina. Am with you on that one. You don't own anything to those vultures.

COLGATE4 (4,270 posts)

6. That type of brilliant thinking is what

causes nationa like Argentina to stay economically ****ed up.

idwiyo (1,221 posts)

7. Paying debts they clearly shouldn't have any obligation to pay is GREAT for economy!

Last edited Fri Mar 29, 2013, 09:22 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Because NOTHING stimulates economy more that getting into financial servitude to hedge funds, bond speculators and their ilk. EVERYONE knows its a driving force to prosperity.
 
You are Genius! THANK YOU for pointing those facts to me! I am going to switch to new nick and call myself Third-Way IDWIYO (following in Third-Way Manny's footsteps)!

PS I doubt I need a sarcasm smilie for the above.

geek tragedy (23,768 posts)

8. So, which money are they supposed to pay back

and which money are they allowed to screw their lenders out of?

idwiyo (1,221 posts)

9. As far as I am concerned, none of it. Argentina is a bit more generous Than I am,so they offered to

pay same rate as they payed everyone else. That's was a damn generous offer.

If anything they should be the ones getting payed for the years of Military Dictatorship sponsored by US.

geek tragedy (23,768 posts)

12. Okay, I guess if they want to go without borrowing money

that's a good idea.

idwiyo (1,221 posts)

13. Borrowing from whom? Hedge funds, money sharks, IMF, others like that? Damn well its a great idea

Not to.

Glad you agree.

geek tragedy (23,768 posts)

14. The flip side to that is that they have to balance their

budget each and every year.

No deficit spending.

Like that'll happen!

idwiyo (1,221 posts)

28. They will manage, I am sure. Funny thou how you so honestly believe that Argentinian taxpayers


Should just pay the debt AFTER what was done to them. VERY touching.

Or did I misread something?

Judi Lynn (76,228 posts)

24. Damned right. The U.S. Gov't owes them 30,000 people back who were terrorized, tortured, murdered.

It wouldn't have happened on that grotesque scale, with such gusto without coaching and deep support from the right-wing-controlled U.S. Gov't.
 
That reign of terror was unforgiveable. Can NEVER be absolved.

idwiyo (1,221 posts)

17. Which "law"? In what country? Who made a decision what should the "law" say? Does it apply equally

to everyone or was it designed to benefit specific group of people at the expense of others?
 
Some "laws" even you wouldn't dream of defending. A least I hope so.

But I bet George Bush is an international war criminal for overthrowing the ever-cuddly Saddam Hussein.

COLGATE4 (4,270 posts)

18. You make it impossible to have

Last edited Fri Mar 29, 2013, 12:47 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

a reasonable discussion with you. Playing with semantics or philosophizing about the 'nature of good' may strike you being clever but adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. You are (I assume) aware the rest of the world operates according to certain norms, principal among which, (at least in a civilized society) is the creation of and obedience to the rules it makes ("laws").
 
To answer your question regarding 'which law?', the law that concerns us here is the law under which the contract between Argentina and its lenders was executed (and which was agreed to by Argentina at the time of execution). This law, like all others, applies equally to all. Argentina is obliged to honor it and, in doing so, honor the judgment of the court to whose jurisdiction it submitted. It is not free now to decide it isn't happy with its terms and force the lender to modify the agreement.
 
If you don't like a given law you are more than free to attempt to have it changed by whatever legal means are available to you to do so. What you (and Argentina) are not free to do is to simply ignore it because you are now unhappy with the terms of a prior decision.

idwiyo (1,221 posts)

19. You can't even define which "law" you are talking about. Let alone anything else about it.

And this is somehow my fault?

You insist that I should accept that there is a "law" and everyone should obey it. That's like saying there is a gawd and everyone should believe in it. Just because. Nothing else apply. It's an axiom. Immutable. Just is.
 
Sorry, doesn't work that way.

BTW, if any of that debt was incurred during or as a consequence of the destruction that Military Hunta inflicted on the country and its people than the bill should be send to the old good US of A.

Judi Lynn (76,228 posts)

26. Truly. Their government was run by sociopaths, murderous elitists who were backed by the US,

Last edited Fri Mar 29, 2013, 04:24 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

 who terrorized the country, completely destroyed any and all dissent, slaughtered politically unwanted people, destroyed the lives of their loved ones, traumatized their neighborhoods, terrorized the country at large, with total public awareness of the persecution and torture and murder of people who didn't support them, paralyzed the nation with fear, eventually, stole the children of the prisoners, even removed the viable infants from the pregnant political prisoners by Cesarian Section, then took the mothers immediately, chaining them together, naked, putting them into airplanes and dropping them into the ocean, or rivers, etc. The government then went to the trouble to infiltrate groups of the parents whose children had been kidnapped, tortured, baby stolen, grandmothers trying to find out where the babies went, and they then started killing the grandmothers, the "ladies in white" and their supporters.
 
The right-wing borrowed heavily from US sources, wildly misused the money, privatized utilities, etc., and drove the entire country into the ditch.
 
When the people finally got a chance to elect a leftist President who started pulling things together, they were faced with overwhelming debt which had been incurred by true enemies of the people of Argentina.
 
It's downright grotesque hearing people gibbering about how their deep moral sensibilities are offended that Argentina has a problem with what has happened WITHOUT the consent of the people, which they have decided to handle in the best way possible for the country now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014438472

[GOBUCKS]

Argentina used to be the only civilized country south of Texas, back when their currency was still pegged to the dollar.

You didn't see the sprawling, enormous barrios like in Brazil, VZ, mexico, and the others.

People on the sidewalks of Buenos Aires looked as prosperous as pedestrians in America (and better dressed).

You could walk around in the evening with no concern for street crime.

In B.A., in every store and restaurant someone could speak English, unlike New York or Miami.

It was just a nice place to visit, though I'd never want to live there.

I guess that was while the government was still filtering out the vermin.

[USA4ME]

idwiyo

19. You can't even define which "law" you are talking about. Let alone anything else about it.

And this is somehow my fault?

You insist that I should accept that there is a "law" and everyone should obey it. That's like saying there is a gawd and everyone should believe in it. Just because. Nothing else apply. It's an axiom. Immutable. Just is.
 
Sorry, doesn't work that way.

Ah, but it does work that way, as Argentina (and fools like you) will soon learn.

.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

idwiyo

19. You can't even define which "law" you are talking about. Let alone anything else about it.

I like how they shift the terms of debate.

The OP notes that this has already been hashed out in a court of law where a judge presided and Squirtner sent her lawyers.

Now, suddenly it's the interlocutor's failing to prove the case...as if idiot-way-out would know if the proper statute had been cited.

[USA4ME]

Here's the rule for you libs: Either pay up or you'll pay in other ways. The sooner you dolts learn this lesson, the better we'll permit you to live.

It's just like abortion and twinkie marriage; sure you may get your way, but the trade off is you get to live in poverty under a bridge. Hey, there's always trade-offs, and we decide what they are.

.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Here's the rule for you libs: Either pay up or you'll pay in other ways. The sooner you dolts learn this lesson, the better we'll permit you to live.

It's just like abortion and twinkie marriage; sure you may get your way, but the trade off is you get to live in poverty under a bridge. Hey, there's always trade-offs, and we decide what they are.

But we never done it this way before! We know this because we're progressives so we progress and since life has always been miserable we have to do what hasn't been done before because we're progressives and this is progress which is good because we haven't done it before because it's progress and we know this because we're progressives.

[JohnnyReb]

But we never done it this way before! We know this because we're progressives so we progress and since life has always been miserable we have to do what hasn't been done before because we're progressives and this is progress which is good because we haven't done it before because it's progress and we know this because we're progressives.

A DUmmie couldn't have explained any better than that.

[98ZJUSMC]

But we never done it this way before! We know this because we're progressives so we progress and since life has always been miserable we have to do what hasn't been done before because we're progressives and this is progress which is good because we haven't done it before because it's progress and we know this because we're progressives.

[Ptarmigan]

Argentina used to be the only civilized country south of Texas, back when their currency was still pegged to the dollar.

You didn't see the sprawling, enormous barrios like in Brazil, VZ, mexico, and the others.

People on the sidewalks of Buenos Aires looked as prosperous as pedestrians in America (and better dressed).

You could walk around in the evening with no concern for street crime.

In B.A., in every store and restaurant someone could speak English, unlike New York or Miami.

It was just a nice place to visit, though I'd never want to live there.

I guess that was while the government was still filtering out the vermin.

Argentina was one of the world's largest economy. Very prosperous nation until the Perons came.