brain dead questions.

[vesta111]

That poor child that has been in the news lately after a medical procedure common they  are saying in childhood.  Questions here.

As there is a death certificate for her, can her parents claim her as a dependent ?

If someone sneaks into the place she is being treated at, rapes  her, what charges can be placed other then abuse of a corpse. While she is pregnant can the child be taken off the machines that will also kill the baby?

What kind of birth certificate would the child get when father unknown and mother deceased a year before the child's birth ?

Who is the legal guardian of the child, if her grandparents take custody of the child will any court settlement money be used to support the child ?

If the rapist is found can he sue for custody of the child and tap into the mothers settlement money

Most important, if the mother had become brain dead from a stroke or seizure and there was no one to sue, would her parents be fighting so hard to keep her alive in body only ?

I think about that poor Terri Scheviro  and the heartbreak of it all. After her accident and an award of a few million bucks, it lasted a few years and her husband raided the trust fund to buy his main squeeze a home and they produced 2-3 kids.

Now both the husband and girlfriend were GOOD Christians and their Church backed then both up all the way. The Church considered her decided

The money needed to be spent on her care but soon the trust was way, way down and Terri's husband and girlfriend had spent most of it.    Along comes the husband when the trust fell to a couple hundred thousand bucks and decided to have the Doctors take his wife off the machines. Had he not there was no way he with a new family pay the bills to keep her alive.

It became a Circus as his wife's parents fought tooth and nail to prevent this action.

Both sides lined up in court after court but in the end the Husband and girlfriend got their way.

Now I wonder about this child, brain dead and what is in store for her. Once the family gets the settlement money will they then decide the best thing to do is to pull her plug ?

I saw both sides of the problem and I cannot imagine  what side was the most tragic, the husband with a wife brain dead, the girlfriend with his kids or the parents who desperately wanted to believe one day their daughter would wake up.

To make matters worse the internet was flooded with story's of how a family member was in a coma for years and came out of it unexpected, for some reason, and it was found the person had been misdiagnosed.

  for all party's in a similar situation.

As medical technology advances at jet speed, we I believe need to rethink the laws on medical practices and the impact it has on grieving in shock family

Some states put a cap on how much can be sued for in malpractice suites is baloney, the man that went into surgery for a circumcision had his entire Penis's cut off and now has to sit to pee.  His doctor just took a look at the member and decided he had cancer, no cold tests of any time of the tissue, just a eye ball guess that the patient may have something that looks like cancer.  Unfortunately the member at issue was disposed of in the trash.

Boston, a patient under brain surgery was left for 30 minutes on the table with skull wide open as the surgeon left to run across the street to cash his pay check.  No crap, lots of crap happens, kids dieing from routine dentil care, I can just imagine how Obama care will be much better.

Looking at on line photos of medical care in Russia in the 1980's may as well get a neighbor to take out your gall bladder in their kitchen.

 

[Dori]

Can't answer any of your questions, but we can pray for the child and her family.

Vesta, how is your daughter doing?

[thundley4]

Vestanumbers, this little girl is so far gone that her body is decaying.

[Bad Dog]

Vesta, I'm so glad you brought this up.

[jtyangel]

That poor child that has been in the news lately after a medical procedure common they  are saying in childhood.  Questions here.

As there is a death certificate for her, can her parents claim her as a dependent ?

My guess would be no--a death certificate means she is dead--you can't claim the dead as dependents or collect anything on them other then an estate or a lawsuit for negligence in that death of some kind.

If someone sneaks into the place she is being treated at, rapes  her, what charges can be placed other then abuse of a corpse. While she is pregnant can the child be taken off the machines that will also kill the baby?

First of all, you'd have to assume at 13 she was even menstruating and ovulating. Secondly, she is BRAIN DEAD vesta. Her brain no longer sends the necessary hormonal signals to her reproducive organs to produce a cycle. She can NOT get pregnant. If you reference the woman in texas who was pregnant bfore he brain death there is no doubt her doctors are having to put the necessary hormones in her system in order to maintain the pregnancy and provide nutrients to the child.

What kind of birth certificate would the child get when father unknown and mother deceased a year before the child's birth ?

Ask Texas. Since they can supersede the directive of a parent in this situation when they are pregnant, they likely have the precedence established for birth certificates. In the case of the child, Jahi, she will not be getting pregnant because of what I mentioned before.

Who is the legal guardian of the child, if her grandparents take custody of the child will any court settlement money be used to support the child ?

If the rapist is found can he sue for custody of the child and tap into the mothers settlement money

Irrelevant in brain death. The person should not be able to get pregnant with the disruption in normal hormonal processes.

Most important, if the mother had become brain dead from a stroke or seizure and there was no one to sue, would her parents be fighting so hard to keep her alive in body only ?

I don't know their intentions...there has been talk that the settlement would be far less if they had let her die.

I think about that poor Terri Scheviro  and the heartbreak of it all. After her accident and an award of a few million bucks, it lasted a few years and her husband raided the trust fund to buy his main squeeze a home and they produced 2-3 kids.

Now both the husband and girlfriend were GOOD Christians and their Church backed then both up all the way. The Church considered her decided

The money needed to be spent on her care but soon the trust was way, way down and Terri's husband and girlfriend had spent most of it.    Along comes the husband when the trust fell to a couple hundred thousand bucks and decided to have the Doctors take his wife off the machines. Had he not there was no way he with a new family pay the bills to keep her alive.

It became a Circus as his wife's parents fought tooth and nail to prevent this action.

Both sides lined up in court after court but in the end the Husband and girlfriend got their way.

Now I wonder about this child, brain dead and what is in store for her. Once the family gets the settlement money will they then decide the best thing to do is to pull her plug ?

Terry Shiavo and Jahi are not comparable. Terry was brain DAMAGED. she could breathe on her own. She was killed at the husband in name only's behest at the end. Jahi is brain dead. She would not have to be starved or dehydrated in order for her to pass like Terry was. One would only need to stop the machine that provides oxygenation to the blood and spark to the heart. Death would follow soon after since her brain does not even work on the most primitive level where breathing is controlled. She is essentially dead with a machine forcing oxygen and blood through it. Terry was very much alive, just unable to care for herself in the same way children born with brain damage are unable to care for themselves. She could breath on her own and it was even believed she could have had her tubed pulled and been retaught how to eat for herself too. She would have lived as a child if her parents had taken her, but she was not dead.

I saw both sides of the problem and I cannot imagine  what side was the most tragic, the husband with a wife brain dead, the girlfriend with his kids or the parents who desperately wanted to believe one day their daughter would wake up.

Terry Shivao was not brain dead. Jahi is.

To make matters worse the internet was flooded with story's of how a family member was in a coma for years and came out of it unexpected, for some reason, and it was found the person had been misdiagnosed.

  for all party's in a similar situation.

As medical technology advances at jet speed, we I believe need to rethink the laws on medical practices and the impact it has on grieving in shock family

In those cases, many times all the tests that were done on Jahi by MULTIPLE Doctors included ones asked for by independent review by the family all agreed she is brain dead. Jahi has been better tested then most people out there who you are referring to.

Some states put a cap on how much can be sued for in malpractice suites is baloney, the man that went into surgery for a circumcision had his entire Penis's cut off and now has to sit to pee.  His doctor just took a look at the member and decided he had cancer, no cold tests of any time of the tissue, just a eye ball guess that the patient may have something that looks like cancer.  Unfortunately the member at issue was disposed of in the trash.

Boston, a patient under brain surgery was left for 30 minutes on the table with skull wide open as the surgeon left to run across the street to cash his pay check.  No crap, lots of crap happens, kids dieing from routine dentil care, I can just imagine how Obama care will be much better.

Looking at on line photos of medical care in Russia in the 1980's may as well get a neighbor to take out your gall bladder in their kitchen.

 
Are you seriously questioning the expertise of multiple doctors and the coroner in this case that this child is dead? One doctor making a mistake is one thing; the review of several is quite another and there are some pretty concrete standards to make that declaration. Keep in mind too that regulations restrict what the hospital can even reveal in this situation so you are allowing the emotional ranting of the family(whose true motivations are unclear) and their lawyer and a bunch of armchair ridiculousness on the  net influence you.

I hope some of our medical wizzes come in to speak more on this.

[Bad Dog]

My guess would be no--a death certificate means she is dead--you can't claim the dead as dependents or collect anything on them other then an estate or a lawsuit for negligence in that death of some kind.

There should be some sort of award for that effort.

[vesta111]

Can't answer any of your questions, but we can pray for the child and her family.

Vesta, how is your daughter doing?

Thank you for asking Dori, she is doing super well, 2 1/2 weeks and no signs of rejection yet.    Because of hospital infections they will try to get her out of the hospital and home as fast as possible

I wonder if there is any way I can get information on the donor. I would like to thank their family for the gift of life from their loved ones.     

[longview]

Thank you for asking Dori, she is doing super well, 2 1/2 weeks and no signs of rejection yet.    Because of hospital infections they will try to get her out of the hospital and home as fast as possible

I wonder if there is any way I can get information on the donor. I would like to thank their family for the gift of life from their loved ones.     

Glad your daughter is doing well.  You can contact the hospital social worker and they should be able to help you make your gratitude known to the family of the donor. 

On this other case... I just can't imagine being in the family's position.  You raised a lot of really good questions, Vesta.

There is a case in Texas right now with a woman declared brain dead, husband wants life support stopped, but... the woman is pregnant. 

Some real ethical struggles going on as a result of the wonderful things doctors can do.

[vesta111]

Glad your daughter is doing well.  You can contact the hospital social worker and they should be able to help you make your gratitude known to the family of the donor. 

On this other case... I just can't imagine being in the family's position.  You raised a lot of really good questions, Vesta.

There is a case in Texas right now with a woman declared brain dead, husband wants life support stopped, but... the woman is pregnant. 

Some real ethical struggles going on as a result of the wonderful things doctors can do.

I was also thinking of Katerina and the female doctor who was charged with 15-20 murders for her actions.

With a hospital full of patients the most healthy were removed to safety, as I understand it.

The ones that could not be moved were in horrid shape.  With no power and no safe drinking water, no food  and most over the age of 60 with little chance of survival to boot, even had the disaster not hit.

The Doctor was accused of "snowing" the patients ----rather then allowing them to suffer and slowly die.   

This at the time became a big moral question for me.  Was she an angel of Mercy or a killer.

Big hot button of controversy at work.

  Some really religious people felt that she was a killer, Only God should decide when a persons time was up.  Even when a person suffering begged to be released from their suffering to do so was to commit suicide by proxy and never get into heaven.

Others believed that being starved to death, no hydration or medication, or anything to help these people in any way they could was a fate worse then death, especially if the suffering was prolonged by hours or days.

In came the Humanitarians that believed that if one has a pet suffering one put them down,---- to allow a person to suffer was a sin.

So what to do when you or a family member gets into a condition at sometime in their life.   When is it time to pull the plug and release a loved one or a stranger from Hell on Earth.   

Religion and social mores say to save the baby's First, then the woman and older children second, then the men.

Then this poor Terri, as you said she was brain damaged but could still live as some part of her brain was working.   I wonder what part, could she still hear or even see ?

Someone mentioned up thread that specialist by the half dozen came in to diagnose the brain dead child, why question them?   A good reason, monetary and political.

About Terri, was she ever given a cat scan or MOI, why did her Autopsy results show her brain had shrunk to the size of an orange ?????  This could have been picked up years before had her husband allowed those tests.

Now why in America can a husband order the starvation and death of a wife that is on no machines just in a coma like state ?

Troubling questions from a old Lady that sees the changing world.

BTW, my daughter has had a few of 2-3 week comas and recovered  against 4 doctors prognoses from the start that she never would.   Not to mention that at times she would wake up to the point of hearing what was going on, then going back under. Surprising thing was she after out of the coma remembered what she heard.

--People must do this often as when getting treatment before laying hands on the nurse would state her name and call her by name before giving an injection or any kind of care.

Whole new world to me after 30 years out of the trade.

[jtyangel]

Then this poor Terri, as you said she was brain damaged but could still live as some part of her brain was working.   I wonder what part, could she still hear or even see ?

Someone mentioned up thread that specialist by the half dozen came in to diagnose the brain dead child, why question them?   A good reason, monetary and political.

About Terri, was she ever given a cat scan or MOI, why did her Autopsy results show her brain had shrunk to the size of an orange ?????  This could have been picked up years before had her husband allowed those tests.

Now why in America can a husband order the starvation and death of a wife that is on no machines just in a coma like state ?

Troubling questions from a old Lady that sees the changing world.

BTW, my daughter has had a few of 2-3 week comas and recovered  against 4 doctors prognoses from the start that she never would.   Not to mention that at times she would wake up to the point of hearing what was going on, then going back under. Surprising thing was she after out of the coma remembered what she heard.

--People must do this often as when getting treatment before laying hands on the nurse would state her name and call her by name before giving an injection or any kind of care.

Whole new world to me after 30 years out of the trade.

Vesta, I think you don't have a good understanding of the difference between brain death and brain damaged. They are NOT the same. As for the doctors, you discount that the independent doctors the familiy and their lawyers brought in also was in cahoots with the others eh? All of the tests done on Jahi are in her record, however the hospital obviously can not release that due to privacy laws. The deterioration hs been documented as well and is available as part of court record.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/bay-area-news/ci_24855412/document-medical-analysis-jahi-mcmath-deteriorating-condition?source=most_viewed

 I don't happen to agree your questions are relevant since you are comparing apples to oranges here. Brain Death is a LEGAL determination of death. That is why this young lady has a death certificate, dated not at the end of december, but the day she was declared legally brain dead. As I understand it, the hospital is under no obligation when death is declared to do anything more then allow the family time to say goodbye and or support the body very briefly for organ harvest. That ventilator was only meant for them to say goodbye while her skin was warm artificially not to sustain the corpse indefinitely. It's shocking you can not understand that.

Terry Schiavo should not even be a part of this discussion and her family's foundation are allowing emotionality to rule over good sense. I was an advocate for Terry Schiavo--I believe she to be a brain damaged woman who was starved to death. She could breath right up to the end on her own. Her brain functioned, just not at the capacity it did before her injury. She was basically infantile and like a toddler but still very much alive. Like a child she needed only nurturing and to have food prepared and served and bathed to do fine--like a toddler she did not need a machine to push air in her lifeless body, just the love and care of others.

If you cite movements in Jahi, I will refer to you to the videos of the lazarus reflex in brain dead patients ie reflexes that are inherent to the spinal cord and not the brain.
http://necrobiology.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/the-lazarus-reflex/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-RXcW16ylQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffqz-vKZO5Q

[vesta111]

Vesta, I think you don't have a good understanding of the difference between brain death and brain damaged. They are NOT the same. As for the doctors, you discount that the independent doctors the family and their lawyers brought in also was in cahoots with the others eh? All of the tests done on Jami are in her record, however the hospital obviously can not release that due to privacy laws. The deterioration hs been documented as well and is available as part of court record.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/bay-area-news/ci_24855412/document-medical-analysis-jahi-mcmath-deteriorating-condition?source=most_viewed

 I don't happen to agree your questions are relevant since you are comparing apples to oranges here. Brain Death is a LEGAL determination of death. That is why this young lady has a death certificate, dated not at the end of december, but the day she was declared legally brain dead. As I understand it, the hospital is under no obligation when death is declared to do anything more then allow the family time to say goodbye and or support the body very briefly for organ harvest. That ventilator was only meant for them to say goodbye while her skin was warm artificially not to sustain the corpse indefinitely. It's shocking you can not understand that.

Terry Schiavo should not even be a part of this discussion and her family's foundation are allowing emotionality to rule over good sense. I was an advocate for Terry Schiavo--I believe she to be a brain damaged woman who was starved to death. She could breath right up to the end on her own. Her brain functioned, just not at the capacity it did before her injury. She was basically infantile and like a toddler but still very much alive. Like a child she needed only nurturing and to have food prepared and served and bathed to do fine--like a toddler she did not need a machine to push air in her lifeless body, just the love and care of others.

If you cite movements in Jahi, I will refer to you to the videos of the lazarus reflex in brain dead patients ie reflexes that are inherent to the spinal cord and not the brain.
http://necrobiology.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/the-lazarus-reflex/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-RXcW16ylQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffqz-vKZO5Q

   But my dear the first link does not agree with the last links.  Dateline has a story of a young man considered brain dead.

MRI was taken to show his brain injury was so bad his blood was not going to his brain, Visuals of his scan showed he was dead.

The young man was declared brain dead and the young man an organ done  had organ harvesters on the way. 

At ground zero an hour before he was to be harvested he woke up.   

His doctors reviewing his MRI test reviewed had no idea how this could have happened. Impossible they cried, this man is medically dead, but, only an hour  before the harvesting began he opened his eyes to speak and recognised his parents. 

This was in Texas and the man has fully recovered from being just minutes from being harvested.

Was a mistake made in the MRI procedure, were his two or three doctors relying on the tests alone ??

Much worse were the harvester's all too anxious to for some reason to get the organs before some time had gone on ?

One thing that helped was the man had a couple nurses in the family that treated him and noticed he was improving, but no one listened as the proof was there from the MRI that he was brain dead.

So what to think here, I have some deep dark thoughts about this, would another scan have shown something different ???

Organs from young healthy deceased is Hugh around the world. Wealthy people anywhere on earth will pay anything for a Kidney, Liver, Heart  or Lungs.

The unthinkable comes in here, Doctors that get a commission on the organs they send.

I followed your links you sent to find this Dateline story, This man from Texas is now able to walk, talk and go fishing and have a normal life.

Some call this a miracle, especially the mans doctors, but, the 3 Doctors that were busted in NY for getting money from Israel for organs sent was a wake up call for me.

Just how dead were the patients who were harvested ???