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Author Topic: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.  (Read 1013 times)

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Offline MrsSmith

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Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« on: March 28, 2012, 05:41:18 AM »
Quote
ErikJ
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:26 AM
 
Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.

Last edited Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:31 AM USA/ET - Edit history (2)

The Supreme Court is saying the Obama mandate is unprecedented in the US ------BUT ITS NOT!

The Origininal Individual Mandate, 1792.

......The Militia Acts of 1792, passed by the Second Congress and signed into law by President Washington, required every able-bodied white male citizen to enroll in his state’s militia and mandated that he “provide himself” with various goods for the common weal:

ach and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States . . . shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia . . . .provid himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein . . . and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service


This was the law of the land until the establishment of the National Guard in 1903. For many American families, compliance meant purchasing-and eventually re-purchasing-multiple muskets from a private party.

This was no small thing. Although anywhere from 40 to 79% of American households owned a firearm of some kind, the Militia Act specifically required a military-grade musket. That particular kind of gun was useful for traditional, line-up-and-shoot 18th century warfare, but clumsy and inaccurate compared to the single-barrel shotguns and rifles Americans were using to hunt game. A new musket, alone, could cost anywhere from $250 to $500 in today’s money. Some congressmen estimated it would cost £20 to completely outfit a man for militia service-about $2,000 today.
Perhaps the most surprising aspect of the militia mandate is how uncontroversial it was. .................

http://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2010/07/23/the-original-individual-mandate-circa-1792/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002482767

The DUmmie makes a great point!  We should immediately demand Congress pass an updated version of this mandate.  This one act alone would greatly reduce crime across the country, and reduce the chances of anything like the Trayvon case from repeating.  After all, if all people were sufficiently educated as to the chances of another person being armed, people would be far more likely to discuss things pleasantly rather than getting into fights.   :-) :-)
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2012, 05:43:30 AM »
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." -Robert A. Heinlein

Think about it, DUmmies.
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Offline Skul

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2012, 05:48:11 AM »
Were they taxed or have to pay a penalty if they didn't?
Oh, ya, that's a different thing.
Stupid DUmpmonkey.
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Offline WinOne4TheGipper

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2012, 07:13:56 AM »
Quote from: MrsSmith on March 28, 2012, 05:41:18 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002482767

The DUmmie makes a great point!  We should immediately demand Congress pass an updated version of this mandate.  This one act alone would greatly reduce crime across the country, and reduce the chances of anything like the Trayvon case from repeating.  After all, if all people were sufficiently educated as to the chances of another person being armed, people would be far more likely to discuss things pleasantly rather than getting into fights.   :-) :-)

Weak argument.  The raising of militias is one of the enumerated powers.  Health insurance is not.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 07:26:29 AM »
The DUmmies are always saying that "The Constitution" is a living, breathing document...SOOOOOO

provid himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein

...now means that I am entitled to a machine gun....and at least a medium tank and one of the retired F-14 Tomcats. :-).
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Offline wasp69

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 08:23:55 AM »
Quote
ErikJ

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:26 AM
 
Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.

Methinks the DUmmies just figured out that obamacare is most likely going down in flames.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2012, 08:38:05 AM »
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ach and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States . . . shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia . . . .provid himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein . . . and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service
Since they don't have flintlocks and muskets anymore, we have Selective Service.

DUmmies are so f'n stupid.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2012, 09:27:38 AM »
Quote from: Skul on March 28, 2012, 05:48:11 AM
Were they taxed or have to pay a penalty if they didn't?
Oh, ya, that's a different thing.
Stupid DUmpmonkey.

No.  Anyone who showed up without their shit in time of real emergency was fitted out with armory gear.  And a 'Military grade musket' of the day was pretty equivalent to a shotgun of the same day, the choke bore we associate with shotguns today was not widely known or manufactured until a hundred years after that law was enacted.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2012, 02:49:19 PM »
DUmmies at Harvard...

"HARVARD LAWPROF EINER ELHAUGE EMAILS A LINK TO HIS PIECE IN THE NEW REPUBLIC: If Health Insurance Mandates Are Unconstitutional, Why Did the Founding Fathers Back Them? But I don’t find it as convincing has he does. He cites two “mandates” — the Militia Act of 1792 and a requirement that ship owners insure their seamen’s health."

"The Militia Act argument doesn’t work at all. First, as Elhauge admits, it’s justifiable under the Militia Clause, not the Commerce Clause. The Militia Clause empowers Congress to provide for arming, training, and disciplining the militia, and the cash-strapped first Congress chose to “provide for” arming them by requiring adult males to own guns. This method of arming the miltia existed under the common law and, indeed, in Anglo-Saxon history going back at least as far as the seventh century, so it was hardly a stretch."

Instapundit
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Offline Doubleplusungood

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2012, 03:05:32 PM »
Quote from: WinOne4TheGipper on March 28, 2012, 07:13:56 AM
Weak argument.  The raising of militias is one of the enumerated powers.  Health insurance is not.

Beat me to it. Hi5.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2012, 03:14:47 PM »
As long as I have the right weapon and my aim stays good, you ain't going to need health insurance DUmmies.
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"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline jukin

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2012, 03:26:05 PM »
The losers at DUmpville can have their 0bama fee mandate when they pass a Constitutional Amendment that allows it. Until then it is un-Constitutional. That is how The Constitution can live and breath.
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Offline Ralph Wiggum

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Re: Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2012, 03:32:30 PM »
DUmmies will twist themselves in all sorts of logical pretzels to force socialism on us.
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2012, 03:36:25 PM »
Quote from: JohnnyReb on March 28, 2012, 07:26:29 AM
The DUmmies are always saying that "The Constitution" is a living, breathing document...SOOOOOO

provid himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein

...now means that I am entitled to a machine gun....and at least a medium tank and one of the retired F-14 Tomcats. :-).
Precisely correct, when accounting for inflation, maybe even more firepower than that.
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Offline miskie

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2012, 03:38:15 PM »
Point 1 - raising militias is in The Constitution. Universal healthcare isn't.

Point 2 - specifically applies to seafaring merchants and those who work for them. Commerce clause could be applied since we are talking interstate (and international) trade.

The problem here is Obama has made the case that American life is subject to the commerce clause. It is a ridiculous overreach - If being a living American subjects one to the will of government via the commerce clause, then the government can require living Americans to enlist in or pay for anything. Whereas Point 2 only addresses certain people in a specific trade, and those whom they employ.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2012, 03:41:04 PM »
Quote from: miskie on April 13, 2012, 03:38:15 PM
Point 1 - raising militias is in The Constitution. Universal healthcare isn't.

Good thing it didn't take off. Could you imagine all those DUmbasses with guns?
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2012, 03:46:06 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on April 13, 2012, 03:41:04 PM
Good thing it didn't take off. Could you imagine all those DUmbasses with guns?
Wait till they get armed with their free healthcare. A gun in their hand would cause far less damage. Not to mention the EBT card in their other hand.
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Offline miskie

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2012, 03:47:53 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on April 13, 2012, 03:41:04 PM
Good thing it didn't take off. Could you imagine all those DUmbasses with guns?

I suspect there would be a lot less primitives in the United States. Either via personal accident, or via bad decision - there would be a serious culling of primitive tribesmen.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2012, 05:02:02 PM »
There is still a militia statute making everyone of age a member of the 'Unorganized militia.'  It's just that there is no requirement to equip yourself, there is no defense bureaucracy to run it if called up, and there has never been a situation dire enough to require a President to invoke it.
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Offline Bad Dog

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2012, 07:02:53 PM »
Are you guys kidding? This is brilliant.  If only this primitive had gotten to Barry's Solicitor General in time, I'll bet the Supremes would have thrown the case out on summary judgement.
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Offline Skul

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2012, 02:18:06 AM »
Quote from: DumbAss Tanker on March 28, 2012, 09:27:38 AM
No.  Anyone who showed up without their shit in time of real emergency was fitted out with armory gear.  And a 'Military grade musket' of the day was pretty equivalent to a shotgun of the same day, the choke bore we associate with shotguns today was not widely known or manufactured until a hundred years after that law was enacted.
We could talk about choked bores for hours. Not common in those years.
The old smooth-bores served double duty back thatn.
We're pretty far off topic right now.
Lets yap in the gun forum.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2012, 06:26:57 PM »
Quote from: Skul on April 14, 2012, 02:18:06 AM
We could talk about choked bores for hours. Not common in those years.
The old smooth-bores served double duty back thatn.
We're pretty far off topic right now.
Lets yap in the gun forum.

Hey, that's how the yanks kicked our asses, rifled bores and we still had smooth bores. They still lost more men because they couldn't shoot for shit. :stirpot:
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Obamacare mandate nothing compared to Founding Father's individual mandate.
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2012, 10:40:46 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on April 14, 2012, 06:26:57 PM
Hey, that's how the yanks kicked our asses, rifled bores and we still had smooth bores. They still lost more men because they couldn't shoot for shit. :stirpot:

We had this thing called "Artillery," and this other thing called "Logistics."  It proved to be more than enough.
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