Massive financial bailout fails in the House

[asdf2231]

Anytime the House can get Pelosi to look this sad and defeated, I trust whatever happened was a good thing for America. When she's happy, I'm scared.

If you tilted her head back and used a bow could you play her throat like a chello?  Because she has some NASTY face lift tension wattle going on there...

[Willow]

apparently pelosi delivered another one of her PMS-assisted lunatic rants just before the roll call that blamed the entire mess on george bush and the republicans, and ended up costing herself GOP votes.  whether it was enough votes to have made a difference is another story, but if she wanted it to pass, all she had to do was keep her pie hole shut.

that woman has utterly poisoned the well in the house.  The BarackStar! has long since stopped talking about hope, healing, and unity, but even if he suddenly changed his mind, he is now looking at deficit of goodwill about as big as the grand canyon.

oh, and the doddering old man over in the senate has done about the same thing there. 

add to that the fact that it is Pelosi who was standing in the way of offshore drilling. I don't know how far it is possible for her ratings to fall but I suspect it will be like -100...  

[bijou]

Anytime the House can get Pelosi to look this sad and defeated, I trust whatever happened was a good thing for America. When she's happy, I'm scared.

If you tilted her head back and used a bow could you play her throat like a chello?  Because she has some NASTY face lift tension wattle going on there...

And look at her ear, in a year or two her ears will be meeting at the back of her head.

[Hawkgirl]

apparently pelosi delivered another one of her PMS-assisted lunatic rants just before the roll call that blamed the entire mess on george bush and the republicans, and ended up costing herself GOP votes.  whether it was enough votes to have made a difference is another story, but if she wanted it to pass, all she had to do was keep her pie hole shut.

that woman has utterly poisoned the well in the house.  The BarackStar! has long since stopped talking about hope, healing, and unity, but even if he suddenly changed his mind, he is now looking at deficit of goodwill about as big as the grand canyon.

oh, and the doddering old man over in the senate has done about the same thing there. 

add to that the fact that it is Pelosi who was standing in the way of offshore drilling. I don't know how far it is possible for her ratings to fall but I suspect it will be like -100...  

Expect to have a Republican majority in Congress next session.

[JohnnyReb]

apparently pelosi delivered another one of her PMS-assisted lunatic rants just before the roll call that blamed the entire mess on george bush and the republicans, and ended up costing herself GOP votes.  whether it was enough votes to have made a difference is another story, but if she wanted it to pass, all she had to do was keep her pie hole shut.

that woman has utterly poisoned the well in the house.  The BarackStar! has long since stopped talking about hope, healing, and unity, but even if he suddenly changed his mind, he is now looking at deficit of goodwill about as big as the grand canyon.

oh, and the doddering old man over in the senate has done about the same thing there. 

add to that the fact that it is Pelosi who was standing in the way of offshore drilling. I don't know how far it is possible for her ratings to fall but I suspect it will be like -100...  

Yeah, well, in the district she represents that means a landslide vote to send her back to Washington.

[formerlurker]

The Republicans are blaming it on Pelosi's ridiculous ramblings to which Frank of all people told them to get over it and toughen up -- that they should be doing what is best for the nation.  He also threw in there that the Republicans in doing this are revolting against GWB and McCain.   

I just can't take the hypocrisy anymore.    I am thrilled this tanked.  The Boston media is actually all over Frank for this disaster.  I hope that bastard loses his seat over this.

 

[Hawkgirl]

what's next? a recount? back to the drawing board?
DOW futures are up btw...Isn't closing with a - 777 good luck?

[DumbAss Tanker]

The Republicans are blaming it on Pelosi's ridiculous ramblings to which Frank of all people told them to get over it and toughen up -- that they should be doing what is best for the nation.  He also threw in there that the Republicans in doing this are revolting against GWB and McCain.   

I just can't take the hypocrisy anymore.    I am thrilled this tanked.  The Boston media is actually all over Frank for this disaster.  I hope that bastard loses his seat over this.

 

I'm glad someone is calling one of the bastards on ridiculously overplaying his crappy hand, I'd love to see that disgusting porkroll Schumer take a pounding for his own grandstanding bullshit while they're at it.

[formerlurker]

House to Wall Street: Drop dead
Commentary: Uneasy Republicans couldn't stomach massive bailout
By MarketWatch
Last update: 2:40 p.m. EDT Sept. 29, 2008

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - With a firm rejection of Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, the House Republicans have told the financial markets that they'll have to solve their problems on their own, without $700 billion of taxpayer money.
In a stunning vote on Monday, the House rejected the financial rescue package on a vote of 205 to 228. Republicans voted against the bill by a two-to-one ratio, and in the process rejected their own leadership, who had worked for nearly a week to craft a bill that could gain a majority. Nearly 100 Democrats also voted against the bill, spurning their leadership.

Many Republicans in the House were never persuaded that the credit crunch in the financial system is an impending disaster deserving of taxpayer aid. Politicians who had cut their teeth on free-market principles couldn't accept the idea that the federal government should back up the banks who had foolishly bet everything on the housing bubble.

Or they didn't want to face the voters in six weeks and explain why a Republican would vote for the biggest government bailout ever.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/house-wall-street-drop-dead/story.aspx?guid={6FCA5CAB-BFB5-41ED-8FBB-B4005F4169DA}

[Hawkgirl]

The Republicans are blaming it on Pelosi's ridiculous ramblings to which Frank of all people told them to get over it and toughen up -- that they should be doing what is best for the nation.  He also threw in there that the Republicans in doing this are revolting against GWB and McCain.   

I just can't take the hypocrisy anymore.    I am thrilled this tanked.  The Boston media is actually all over Frank for this disaster.  I hope that bastard loses his seat over this.

 

I'm glad someone is calling one of the bastards on ridiculously overplaying his crappy hand, I'd love to see that disgusting porkroll Schumer take a pounding for his own grandstanding bullshit while they're at it.

He had a shit-eating grin on his face 2 days ago every time a republican spoke, but a smile when Pelosi takes the throne.  
I'm glad to see this wiped the smiles off their faces.  This whole bail-out mess makes me think much less of President Bush btw....he succumbed to them and that is just sad.
H5 to the republicans in the house.

[formerlurker]

McCain blames Obama for bailout defeat
By POLITICO STAFF | 9/29/08 3:31 PM EDT   Text Size:     
 
 
 
Shortly after the bailout vote, a statement from the campaign of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) blamed the loss on "the Democratic leadership: Senators [Barack] Obama and [Harry] Reid, Speaker [Nancy] Pelosi and others.

"Their partisan attacks were an effort to gain political advantage during a national economic crisis. By doing so, they put at risk the homes, livelihoods and savings of millions of American families," said the statement, released in the name of senior policy adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin.

Here is the text of the statement:

“From the minute John McCain suspended his campaign and arrived in Washington to address this crisis, he was attacked by the Democratic leadership: Senators Obama and Reid, Speaker Pelosi and others. Their partisan attacks were an effort to gain political advantage during a national economic crisis. By doing so, they put at risk the homes, livelihoods and savings of millions of American families.

“Barack Obama failed to lead, phoned it in, attacked John McCain, and refused to even say if he supported the final bill.

“Just before the vote, when the outcome was still in doubt, Speaker Pelosi gave a strongly worded partisan speech and poisoned the outcome.

“This bill failed because Barack Obama and the Democrats put politics ahead of country.” — McCain-Palin senior policy adviser Doug Holtz-Eakin

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/14087.html


Stick that in your turban and smoke it skippy.   I have to wipe the tears from the corners of my eyes I am so proud of McCain's campaign right now -- GENIUS.   

Karl Rove has met his match.   


 

[Willow]

funny as hell, the liberals are freaking out over this, why aren't they celebrating? They are the very ones who wanted to sock it to corporate America and the rich.. 

[Hawkgirl]

Anyone know how the junior senator wannabe president Hillary Clinton voted?  She hasn't been seen as a key operator on any of this...perhaps purposely.

[jtyangel]

what's next? a recount? back to the drawing board?
DOW futures are up btw...Isn't closing with a - 777 good luck?

I'm curious since you said and I quote that you would 'worry when we had a day like in 87' what you say to this:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601057&sid=aFVo3p8GzeWk&refer=futures

Sept. 29 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks plunged and the Standard & Poor's 500 Index tumbled the most since the 1987 crash after the House of Representatives rejected a $700 billion plan to rescue the financial system.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average slid 778 points for its biggest point drop ever as $1.2 trillion in market value was erased from American equities. The MSCI World Index of 23 developed markets slid 6.9 percent, the most in 21 years.

Wachovia Corp. tumbled 82 percent after the bank was sold to Citigroup Inc. in a deal brokered by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., sending shares of Sovereign Bancorp Inc. down 72 percent and National City Corp. 63 percent lower. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley, the two largest Wall Street securities firms, fell more than 12 percent. General Motors Corp., Chevron Corp. and Intel Corp. sank more than 10 percent each as all 30 Dow average stocks lost at least 2.8 percent.

``We've completely decimated confidence in the markets,'' said James Dunigan, managing executive of investments at PNC Wealth Management, which oversees $66 billion in Philadelphia. ``I appreciate their wanting to be a watchdog. On the other hand, if the kitchen's on fire, you don't want it to spread to rest of the house.'' (totally agree with this and it's what I've been saying)

The S&P 500 decreased 106.59 points, or 8.8 percent, to 1,106.42. The Dow slid 7 percent to 10,365.45. The Nasdaq Composite Index declined 199.61, or 9.1 percent, to 1,983.73, its steepest plunge since April 2000. Twenty-five stocks fell for each that rose on the New York Stock Exchange as 2 billion shares were traded on the floor, 35 percent more than the three- month average.

Now, I admit, I don't often stay in these threads. I find it tedious to explain the importance of liquidity, fixed income movement, historical signifigance, credit availability, and such to seasoned investment professionals, but given that some of the things have happened that would 'worry' certain posters here, I thought perhaps we could get a word as to why optimism reigns in the face of their own triggers being reached.

BTW, the DOW futures are now down in after market trading(37 currently)

http://money.cnn.com/data/afterhours/index.html

A little side note, bonds are up...bonds(treasuries) go way up in a bad economy...FYI

Another little tidbit to look at

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm

The day's loss knocked out approximately $1.2 trillion in market value, the first post-$1 trillion day ever, according to a drop in the Dow Jones Wilshire 5000, the broadest measure of the stock market.

Just a few other interesting things on the credit implications

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/markets/bondcenter/treasury_prices/index.htm

Now, of course this market should have constricted, but the point it is restricting to now is not good for the economy.

Well, peeps, gotta run. Please, if you want to address anything I've said, address the content of the articles as they are the backups I failed to provide the first time around(unfortunately the other info I could not send out as it was not for reproduction and I didn't want to get involved with issues of confidentiality or copyright if there were any).

Now, all this said, am I a pessimist? In the short term, yes, most definitely. In the long term, 3 years out and that's WITH the bailout, I am not. More like 5 without it. Do I like being vindicated--hell no because I know this is inherently bad for the American people. The repercussions of even businesses having a hard time getting credit WILL hurt the average person. The implication of seriously reduced retail spending will hurt the many people who work there. The problems that home selling has on people being able to move where there is opportunity will have repercussions(not everyone can rent out--if you have a VA loan you are not allowed and good luck getting that restructered into a conventional).

[Miss Mia]

Anyone know how the junior senator wannabe president Hillary Clinton voted?  She hasn't been seen as a key operator on any of this...perhaps purposely.

This was the House vote, it never moved to the Senate. 

[Chris_]

Anyone know how the junior senator wannabe president Hillary Clinton voted?  She hasn't been seen as a key operator on any of this...perhaps purposely.

This was the House vote, it never moved to the Senate. 

Too bad, I was looking forward to Teh Obamessiah voting "Present" on it.

[Airwolf]

They way I am seeing this is the economy is kind of like a box of hand grenades. The government told people to remove the saftey pins on some of the grenades and then hold on to them to keep them from exploding. Eventually someone is going to have to let go of their grip. The smart people want those pins back in the grenades and the idiots( Mostly the Dems) are standing around telling those holding them to keep hanging on. If they don't put he pins back we will all be looking at this again in the years to come.

[DixieBelle]

They way I am seeing this is the economy is kind of like a box of hand grenades. The government told people to remove the saftey pins on some of the grenades and then hold on to them to keep them from exploding. Eventually someone is going to have to let go of their grip. The smart people want those pins back in the grenades and the idiots( Mostly the Dems) are standing around telling those holding them to keep hanging on. If they don't put he pins back we will all be looking at this again in the years to come.

excellent analogy. The dems clearly want to shove those holding the grenades though. And then run like hell.

[Hawkgirl]

what's next? a recount? back to the drawing board?
DOW futures are up btw...Isn't closing with a - 777 good luck?

I'm curious since you said and I quote that you would 'worry when we had a day like in 87' what you say to this:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601057&sid=aFVo3p8GzeWk&refer=futures

Sept. 29 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks plunged and the Standard & Poor's 500 Index tumbled the most since the 1987 crash after the House of Representatives rejected a $700 billion plan to rescue the financial system.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average slid 778 points for its biggest point drop ever as $1.2 trillion in market value was erased from American equities. The MSCI World Index of 23 developed markets slid 6.9 percent, the most in 21 years.

Wachovia Corp. tumbled 82 percent after the bank was sold to Citigroup Inc. in a deal brokered by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., sending shares of Sovereign Bancorp Inc. down 72 percent and National City Corp. 63 percent lower. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley, the two largest Wall Street securities firms, fell more than 12 percent. General Motors Corp., Chevron Corp. and Intel Corp. sank more than 10 percent each as all 30 Dow average stocks lost at least 2.8 percent.

``We've completely decimated confidence in the markets,'' said James Dunigan, managing executive of investments at PNC Wealth Management, which oversees $66 billion in Philadelphia. ``I appreciate their wanting to be a watchdog. On the other hand, if the kitchen's on fire, you don't want it to spread to rest of the house.'' (totally agree with this and it's what I've been saying)

The S&P 500 decreased 106.59 points, or 8.8 percent, to 1,106.42. The Dow slid 7 percent to 10,365.45. The Nasdaq Composite Index declined 199.61, or 9.1 percent, to 1,983.73, its steepest plunge since April 2000. Twenty-five stocks fell for each that rose on the New York Stock Exchange as 2 billion shares were traded on the floor, 35 percent more than the three- month average.

Now, I admit, I don't often stay in these threads. I find it tedious to explain the importance of liquidity, fixed income movement, historical signifigance, credit availability, and such to seasoned investment professionals, but given that some of the things have happened that would 'worry' certain posters here, I thought perhaps we could get a word as to why optimism reigns in the face of their own triggers being reached.

BTW, the DOW futures are now down in after market trading(37 currently)

http://money.cnn.com/data/afterhours/index.html

A little side note, bonds are up...bonds(treasuries) go way up in a bad economy...FYI

Another little tidbit to look at

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm

The day's loss knocked out approximately $1.2 trillion in market value, the first post-$1 trillion day ever, according to a drop in the Dow Jones Wilshire 5000, the broadest measure of the stock market.

Just a few other interesting things on the credit implications

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/markets/bondcenter/treasury_prices/index.htm

Now, of course this market should have constricted, but the point it is restricting to now is not good for the economy.

Well, peeps, gotta run. Please, if you want to address anything I've said, address the content of the articles as they are the backups I failed to provide the first time around(unfortunately the other info I could not send out as it was not for reproduction and I didn't want to get involved with issues of confidentiality or copyright if there were any).

Now, all this said, am I a pessimist? In the short term, yes, most definitely. In the long term, 3 years out and that's WITH the bailout, I am not. More like 5 without it. Do I like being vindicated--hell no because I know this is inherently bad for the American people. The repercussions of even businesses having a hard time getting credit WILL hurt the average person. The implication of seriously reduced retail spending will hurt the many people who work there. The problems that home selling has on people being able to move where there is opportunity will have repercussions(not everyone can rent out--if you have a VA loan you are not allowed and good luck getting that restructered into a conventional).

777 point fall today is not the same as a 777 point fall in 1987.  Black Monday had a 1 day drop of 24%, today's was about 6.5%.
As I said, let the correction happen....just as it did in the housing sector.  I'm a long term investor in housing and still haven't seen a bottom (nationally) although some states have bottomed out.  Buckle up and hold on.

[Airwolf]

They way I am seeing this is the economy is kind of like a box of hand grenades. The government told people to remove the saftey pins on some of the grenades and then hold on to them to keep them from exploding. Eventually someone is going to have to let go of their grip. The smart people want those pins back in the grenades and the idiots( Mostly the Dems) are standing around telling those holding them to keep hanging on. If they don't put he pins back we will all be looking at this again in the years to come.

excellent analogy. The dems clearly want to shove those holding the grenades though. And then run like hell.

And guess who is going to get caught in the blast when it happenes? Most likely all of us and not them.

[Hawkgirl]

Anyone know how the junior senator wannabe president Hillary Clinton voted?  She hasn't been seen as a key operator on any of this...perhaps purposely.

This was the House vote, it never moved to the Senate. 

Bah...that's right..lol

[Chris_]

They way I am seeing this is the economy is kind of like a box of hand grenades. The government told people to remove the saftey pins on some of the grenades and then hold on to them to keep them from exploding. Eventually someone is going to have to let go of their grip. The smart people want those pins back in the grenades and the idiots( Mostly the Dems) are standing around telling those holding them to keep hanging on. If they don't put he pins back we will all be looking at this again in the years to come.

excellent analogy. The dems clearly want to shove those holding the grenades though. And then run like hell.

And guess who is going to get caught in the blast when it happenes? Most likely all of us and not them.

Unless we get our heads about us soon, and lob those grenades where they'll do the most good.

[jendf]

Optimism reigns, Jty, because going through life as a pessimist can be awfully taxing on the body, mind, and soul. That's in my opinion, anyway.

I like Michelle Malkin's take on it...it's all about perspective:

Some perspective for the Chicken Littles
By Michelle Malkin  •  September 29, 2008 04:55 PM

Today’s stock market drop is a record point drop, but does not even crack the top 10 single-day percentage drops in American history.

Let’s stop pounding the panic buttons.

On FNC right now, Neil Cavuto emphasizes that lending is going on and puts a damper on Heather Nauert’s panic-button heaving about credit-freeze anecdotes.

Are there businesses getting turned down for loans? Yes.

Here’s a novel thought: Maybe banks are finally learning they shouldn’t fork over money to bad risks.

There's more at the link above, including a link to a website that documents other crashes throughout history. It's a good reminder that everything, including the stock market, is cyclical. This too shall pass. As franksolich so astutely notes from time to time, one adapts, one adjusts, and one moves on.

[Jim]

do y'all remember how we were all talking about energy independence the last few weeks ?
remember how the donkeys we losing with it ?

and now we've blown that off the front page and its 1929 again.

who does better when people are fretting about money ?

I'm sure you'll recall that the dems had the votes to pass this thing last week and yet they didn't.  I'm thinking that they needed to stretch this out as long as possible to help the messiah.

not only will they sell the middle east down sewer
not only will they risk American soldiers by attempting to delay reductions in numbers

they're happy to risk a depression just to elect FDR II.

I need a drink....

[Tess Anderson]

Some HR final vote: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

Haha, Nancy. Of course, my dolt Congressman voted for this. I hope he pays with his seat.

777 point fall today is not the same as a 777 point fall in 1987.  Black Monday had a 1 day drop of 24%, today's was about 6.5%.
As I said, let the correction happen....just as it did in the housing sector.  I'm a long term investor in housing and still haven't seen a bottom (nationally) although some states have bottomed out.  Buckle up and hold on.

That's right, today was only the bigggest drop in absolute numbers. You sound as if you don't want a bailout at all, for this to be handled by the free market, but I may misunderstood - I think this bill was a choice between big Obamite socialism and economic chaos, the latter wins AFAIC.