corrupt states, clean states

[franksolich]

So.....I just heard from a nephew of mine, who expressed astonishment at how long the south was dominated by the Democrats; he was honestly not aware it was something that went on for generations and generations.

We need to do something about the teaching of American history.

I replied back that in The Making of the President 1960, the author, Theodore White, an avowed Kennedyite, had alleged that the four most-corrupt states in the union at the time (1960) were Massachusetts, Maryland, Georgia, and Louisiana, and that the four cleanest states (1960) were Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nebraska, and California.

White theorized that the longer a state was dominated by one single party, the more likely it was to become corrupt, while a state with a vigorous competitive two-party system avoided that affliction.

White, who was a sorry disappointment for his magnanimous patron Henry R. Luce, of course is now dead, but one wonders what states he would rank as the most corrupt, and what states as the cleanest, today.  After all, 1960 was a long time ago now, and much has changed.

[thundley4]

I would say that Illinois ranks near the top for corruption.  Does any other state have one city that controls it's politics?

[franksolich]

I would say that Illinois ranks near the top for corruption.  Does any other state have one city that controls it's politics?

I was surprised that White, even in 1960, didn't have Illinois as one of the top four most-corrupt states.  It sure said something for the level of dishonesty of the four he listed.

[thundley4]

I was surprised that White, even in 1960, didn't have Illinois as one of the top four most-corrupt states.  It sure said something for the level of dishonesty of the four he listed.

I thought it was Chicago that helped put Kennedy over the top in the 1960 election.  I seem to remember reading that some of Nixon's backers wanted him to contest the election.

[franksolich]

I thought it was Chicago that helped put Kennedy over the top in the 1960 election.  I seem to remember reading that some of Nixon's backers wanted him to contest the election.

Yeah, and unlike Alphonse Capote Gore, who whined and cried because he tried to steal Florida and failed, Richard Nixon showed himself a true statesman.

There appeared substantial concrete evidence of voting irregularities in Cook County in favor of John Kennedy, and probably the Republicans could have made something with it.  Kennedy had won Illinois by a razor-thin margin, and it was obvious that margin was provided by "votes" created out of thin air.

However, Richard Nixon said it would be nasty and divisive, and so said forget it.

Quite a difference between two candidates.

[thundley4]

Nixon would not have been elected in 1968 if he had contested the 1960 election, in my opinion.  I think he did the right thing at the time.  It would have been interesting to see how the world would be different if Nixon had actually won in '60.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Nixon would not have been elected in 1968 if he had contested the 1960 election, in my opinion.  I think he did the right thing at the time.  It would have been interesting to see how the world would be different if Nixon had actually won in '60.

True, but that would have had more to do with term limits than public opinion!

 

[Eupher]

True 'nuff about the term limit thing, but there are a number of interesting "what-if's" -


Bay of Pigs

Cuban Missile Crisis

and Vietnam, of course.

While the Sixties were full of people like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, would something approximating "The Great Society" have happened?

I'm suggesting that it wouldn't have, at least not to that extent. All that stuff - Medicare, Medicaid, public broadcasting, arts & humanities entitlements may not have happened to the degree that they did, though Wiki's article on The Great Society indicates that those programs expanded under Nixon and Ford. The catalyst was clearly LBJ and he wouldn't have happened had Kennedy not been elected.

Bay of Pigs? This was early in Kennedy's administration and IIRC, he wasn't as "in tune" with this op as perhaps he should've been. It was a catastrophe for Kennedy, though he managed to stay above most of the fallout. I'm thinking Nixon would've nixed this one.

Cuban Missile Crisis? I think Nixon would've been predisposed with actually negotiating with Khrushchev. Of course, had the Bay of Pigs fiasco not occurred, I'm thinking that the Soviet Union wouldn't have attempted installing missiles in Cuba in the first place.

Vietnam? That's the big question. It's interesting to speculate. I think Nixon may have become just as embroiled and I say that only because of Nixon's bullshit "secret plan" that he waved in everybody's face during the 1968 election campaign as a device for getting out of Vietnam. He had no such plan, but he authorized the raids into Cambodia (overruling his SecDef et. al.) and he authorized the Linebacker II bombing campaigns of 1972.

[5412]

I thought it was Chicago that helped put Kennedy over the top in the 1960 election.  I seem to remember reading that some of Nixon's backers wanted him to contest the election.

HI,

I had a good friend who was a young attorney at the time of the election and he was a so call poll watcher.  His life was threatened.  What happened was the Chicago precincts did not report their election results until all the downstate precincts had reported.  They kept calling Mayor Dailey for his votes and he kept asking, "How many do you need?" 

The consensus was that indeed the late Mayor Dailey stole the election for Kennedy, no doubt about it.  The fact that Kennedy came to Chicago before the election to kiss Dailey's ring did not hurt him, nor that fact that he was an Irish democrat.

Many told Nixon to contest the election but he said "NO", he did not think it was good for the country.  Contrast that with asshole Gore who tried to steal the election with the help of one of Dailey's kids in Florida.  Read the book, "At any cost" and it is a factual account of just how far the democrats went to try to steal the 2000 election. 

The most crime ridden cities, and most poverty ridden cities in America have had democrat mayors and leadership for the better part of a century.  There was something going around the internet a couple months ago about it.  Likely there is a thread buried in the archives about it.

regards,
5412

[Thor]

Minnesota is FULL of "Conservatives", Democrat, Republicans, and Independents. And yet, the Metro Area (Minneapolis & St Paul) control the state as far as elections go. I recall that in 2004, Minnesota went for Kerry, all because of the Metro Area. The out-state and the suburbs voted predominately Republican in this election. The Metro area was also responsible for the election of Keith Ellison, America's first Muslim representative. The suburbs and out-state wanted little to do with him, but their hands were tied.

[bkg]

Minnesota is FULL of "Conservatives", Democrat, Republicans, and Independents. And yet, the Metro Area (Minneapolis & St Paul) control the state as far as elections go. I recall that in 2004, Minnesota went for Kerry, all because of the Metro Area. The out-state and the suburbs voted predominately Republican in this election. The Metro area was also responsible for the election of Keith Ellison, America's first Muslim representative. The suburbs and out-state wanted little to do with him, but their hands were tied.

Spot-on. have you seen the districting here? It's FAWKED UP!

[Chris_]

Minnesota is FULL of "Conservatives", Democrat, Republicans, and Independents. And yet, the Metro Area (Minneapolis & St Paul) control the state as far as elections go. I recall that in 2004, Minnesota went for Kerry, all because of the Metro Area. The out-state and the suburbs voted predominately Republican in this election. The Metro area was also responsible for the election of Keith Ellison, America's first Muslim representative. The suburbs and out-state wanted little to do with him, but their hands were tied.

Didn't it come down to the rural precincts that elected Stuart Smalley to the senate??

doc

[bkg]

Didn't it come down to the rural precincts that elected Stuart Smalley to the senate??

doc

No. That came down to cheating. Big difference.

[Hawkgirl]

NY is corrupt.  I know, I lived there.

[Thor]

Didn't it come down to the rural precincts that elected Stuart Smalley to the senate??

doc

I wasn't living in MN for that election. I left in Mar 2008. I was pretty dismayed that Frankendummy was elected, though. Norm Coleman was a RINO, though. Voted for him, but held my nose when I did. Refer to the Gubernatorial elections back in 1998, when Jesse was elected. (I voted for Jesse) Coleman went from a Democrat Mayor of St Paul to a GOP candidate for Governor overnight. Our choices were Skip Humphrey, Norm Coleman and Jesse Ventura.

[NHSparky]

NM maybe a small and unimportant state in the grand scheme of things, but the corruption in Santa Fe is palpable.  You can't run for elected office in that state without at least one felony conviction and two DWI's.