DUmmies discuss accidental shooting- shows why we shouldn't fear them

[Tucker]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014161698

Omaha Steve (32,367 posts)

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Police: Hug Triggers Officer's Gun, Kills Woman
Source: AP-ABC

A woman celebrating the weekend before her 25th birthday was fatally shot Sunday when she hugged an off-duty police officer while dancing at a party, causing the officer's service weapon to fire, according to police and her mother.

Adaisha Miller would have turned 25 on Monday, according to her mother, Yolanda McNair.

The shooting happened at an outdoor social gathering about 12:30 a.m., said police Sgt. Eren Stephens. It happened on the city's west side.

According to Stephens, the woman "embraced the officer from behind, causing the holstered weapon to accidently discharge." The bullet punctured Miller's lung and hit her heart, and she died at a hospital.

FULL story at link.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-hug-triggers-officers-gun-kills-woman-16737471#.T_oxCJFgzmc

pnwmom (38,704 posts)
1. Are holstered weapons supposed to be locked? This is a serious question.

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I have no idea.

Country Tom (5 posts)
31. Agree

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Something must have gone tragically wrong such as cocked and not locked, mechanical malfunction, or slip of the safety or cross bolt mechanism during the hug. It is also possilble that it was planned and intended.

Meiko (944 posts)
3. Very odd

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that a holstered weapon would discharge like that. Knowing the type of weapon involved would be helpful. If I had to guess I would say it was a Glock.

It was a S&W M&P 40C

Just like mine.

AnotherMcIntosh (2,214 posts)
5. Strange story. So, a round was in the chamber, the safety was off, and somehow a "hug" caused

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the weapon to fire?

Then, on top of that, the bullet punctured her lung and hit her heart?

How many know of any kind of firearm that can be discharged by somehow hugging it or its owner? Any kind at all?

AnotherMcIntosh (2,214 posts)
28. Point taken. In contrast, the hammer on a common S&W acts as a safety in that it must be cocked

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in order for the revolver to be fired.

unblock (21,780 posts)
41. lots of unanswered questions; could he have been trying to prevent access to his gun?

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and in the process, accidentally shoved her fingers into the trigger?

and also twisted the angle of the gun to point toward her heart?

in any event, it sounds like the safety was off, which seems like a mistake in that situation.

veganlush (1,505 posts)
21. guns are mainly

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for cowards to carry. This was another senseless death

obamanut2012 (4,120 posts)
60. So, a gun in an inside-waistband holster was discharged

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Last edited Mon Jul 9, 2012, 08:59 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
And hot upwards and back and shot the woman in the chest... and didn't shoot the guy in the balls, stomach, leg? Surrrrrre.

On edit: this is the type of holster I often use when I go running. There is no way this happened as reported. Impossible.

Why does Monica Lewenski come to mind? Unbuttons his pants, no retention of gun and holster and starts to drop. He tries to catch the gun and grabs the trigger.

I instruct people to let the gun hit the ground. It won't discharge. When you attempt to catch a dropped gun, bad things happen.

Spitfire of ATJ (719 posts)
49. Another question: Why did he have a live round in the chamber?

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Was he expecting an Indian raid?

Everything they learned about guns, they learned from the back of a bubble gum card.

Afraid of an armed liberal? 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

It was a S&W M&P 40C

Just like mine.

I guess I won't be hugging you from behind.

[Jasonw560]

No, veganlush. Cowards don't carry guns. Cowards hide. People who wish to protect themselves and their families from bad guys carry guns. It takes a lot more courage to pull the trigger than to hide and beg for your life.

Idiot.

Tragic story, nonetheless.

[JohnnyReb]

When I first started reading this I figured it would be a GLOCK.

Sorry dudes but I seldom have a live round in the chamber when it's laying around in the house. I'll just have to spot the bad guy a split second or reach for "THE JUDGE".

[Tucker]

I guess I won't be hugging you from behind.

Thanks.

[DumbAss Tanker]

obamanut2012 (4,120 posts)
60. So, a gun in an inside-waistband holster was discharged

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Last edited Mon Jul 9, 2012, 08:59 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
And hot upwards and back and shot the woman in the chest... and didn't shoot the guy in the balls, stomach, leg? Surrrrrre.

On edit: this is the type of holster I often use when I go running. There is no way this happened as reported. Impossible.

Well damn, I have to completely agree with a DUmmie for once.

[Airwolf]

Well damn, I have to completely agree with a DUmmie for once.

Same here. It sounds like the story and the facts don't add up. It could be the reporter left details out or the stoy as told to the cops is a lie.

[Bad Dog]

Same here. It sounds like the story and the facts don't add up. It could be the reporter left details out or the stoy as told to the cops is a lie.

I wouldn't want to be seen as a racist here but, I was just looking at the names in the article.  I would be very interested in the cop's name.

[miskie]

The only way this is plausible is with a shoulder holster.

• Gun is holstered, pointing back under the officer's arm.
• Girl hugs officer from behind
• Girl accidentally gets a finger on the trigger, and pushes backward.
• The holster does what its supposed to do, and resists having the weapon pushed out.
• Weapon fires under the officer's arm, fatally wounding the girl.

[Bad Dog]

The only way this is plausible is with a shoulder holster.

• Gun is holstered, pointing back under the officer's arm.
• Girl hugs officer from behind
• Girl accidentally gets a finger on the trigger, and pushes backward.
• The holster does what its supposed to do, and resists having the weapon pushed out.
• Weapon fires under the officer's arm, fatally wounding the girl.

Hah....(Maxwell Smart voice) the old armpit shot trick.

[miskie]

Hah....(Maxwell Smart voice) the old armpit shot trick.

Indeed.

Granted, I do feel badly for this kid - but if we assume the story is complete & accurate, its the only plausible way this accident could have occurred.

[dutch508]

Indeed.

Granted, I do feel badly for this kid - but if we assume the story is complete & accurate, its the only plausible way this accident could have occurred.

Officers typically have a round in the chamber and the hammer down, thus requiring a double action of the trigger to fire. With this holster, and most others, you cannot engage to trigger while the weapon is bolstered. However, if somehow she dislodged the weapon from the holseter then squeezed the trigger through cock and fire, then this might have happeded.
In a draw situation you don't have time to rack the slide, a la CSI- Where-ever.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Indeed.

Granted, I do feel badly for this kid - but if we assume the story is complete & accurate, its the only plausible way this accident could have occurred.

It's not possible to 'accidentally' (Or probably even intentionally) get your finger inside the trigger guard in that rig with the pistol actually secured in it, which is true for most horizontal-bore armpit rigs.  By the time you got the pistol far enough out to slip a finger onto the trigger, the holster wouldn't be offering enough resistance to fire it DA.

The story is a CYA BS extravaganza.

[miskie]

Officers typically have a round in the chamber and the hammer down, thus requiring a double action of the trigger to fire. With this holster, and most others, you cannot engage to trigger while the weapon is bolstered. However, if somehow she dislodged the weapon from the holseter then squeezed the trigger through cock and fire, then this might have happeded.
In a draw situation you don't have time to rack the slide, a la CSI- Where-ever.

Right - as I said, its the only way its plausible - There are still a few things that need to go wrong, or some sort of oversight such as using a holster that is too small for the weapon carried thus exposing the trigger, or the weapon wasn't holstered correctly - or the girl was trying to be slick and attempted to take the weapon for whatever reason.. there are a lot of "ifs, ands and buts" we simply don't know.

[miskie]

It's not possible to 'accidentally' (Or probably even intentionally) get your finger inside the trigger guard in that rig with the pistol actually secured in it, which is true for most horizontal-bore armpit rigs.  By the time you got the pistol far enough out to slip a finger onto the trigger, the holster wouldn't be offering enough resistance to fire it DA.

The story is a CYA BS extravaganza.

I agree, This is the most likely outcome.

[67 Rover]

Officers typically have a round in the chamber and the hammer down, thus requiring a double action of the trigger to fire. With this holster, and most others, you cannot engage to trigger while the weapon is bolstered. However, if somehow she dislodged the weapon from the holseter then squeezed the trigger through cock and fire, then this might have happeded.
In a draw situation you don't have time to rack the slide, a la CSI- Where-ever.

The M&P in the photo appears to be striker fired which means it is single action only no hammer.

[Tucker]

The M&P in the photo appears to be striker fired which means it is single action only no hammer.

It is. Has a Apex trigger kit installed. 3 pound pull.

[Tucker]

Updated.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120709/METRO01/207090365?fb_comment_id=fbc_10151076754516101_24073903_10151077137696101#f2919dffaf48508

Miller was dancing behind the officer and "there was some manipulation along the officer's waistline that he did not control" when the department-issued Smith and Wesson M&P-40, a .40-caliber semiautomatic pistol, fired and struck her in the chest, Godbee said.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120709/METRO01/207090365#ixzz20AeplGZ4

Here's my post earlier in the day. They musta read my post.

Earl Tucker · Top Commenter · Johnson City, Tennessee

I've been giving this some thought and the only scenario I can come up with is this:

Woman is facing the police office, kneeling ala BJ Billy and Monica Lewinski. As the pants are unsnapped, the gun falls free from the IWB holster due to no more tension from trouser waistband being unsnapped. Officer tries to catch dropped gun and catches it by the butt and trigger causing a discharge at his knee level. As the young woman was on her knees, facing him, the bullet would penetrate her chest area, perforating her lung and heart.

Reply · Like · Unfollow Post · 7 hours ago

[Chris_]

"manipulation along the officer's waistline that he did not control"

*cough*bullshit*cough*

[67 Rover]

It is. Has a Apex trigger kit installed. 3 pound pull.

Ahhh nice.  Unfortunately here in Mass we are limited to 10lb pull double and 5lb single when purchasing from the approved roster.  Milt Sparks makes a nice IWB holster (versa Max II) for that weapon if you are interested.

[Evil_Conservative]

I can't even fit my pinky finger through my holster to reach the trigger of my gun.  There is too much left out of this story. 

Off duty police officer carrying a gun where alcohol was likely being served...

RIP to this woman. 

I heard the mother on a news update say something like, "when I should be planning my daughter's party with her, I am now planning her funeral."  So Sad.

[miskie]

"there was some manipulation along the officer's waistline that he did not control"

- And there it is -

[Tucker]

Ahhh nice.  Unfortunately here in Mass we are limited to 10lb pull double and 5lb single when purchasing from the approved roster.  Milt Sparks makes a nice IWB holster (versa Max II) for that weapon if you are interested.

I have several Milt Sparks. They're worth the 9 month wait. unfortunately not for this gun.

[Chris_]

Am I the only one that has no patience for this legalese gibberish police are using today?  "Manipulation along his waistline."  Okay, whatever you say.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

It's not possible to 'accidentally' (Or probably even intentionally) get your finger inside the trigger guard in that rig with the pistol actually secured in it, which is true for most horizontal-bore armpit rigs.  By the time you got the pistol far enough out to slip a finger onto the trigger, the holster wouldn't be offering enough resistance to fire it DA.

The story is a CYA BS extravaganza.

Dickin' around showing his gun to the cute chick?