The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on August 15, 2019, 06:43:26 PM
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before we get into it, the 14 year old was one of the six teenagers who broke into a house to commit burglary (Home Invasion). The Homeowner fought back as one advanced on him with 'something' in his hand. Any bets on how DU feels about it?
Floyd R. Turbo (11,068 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212380958
14-year-old shot during burglary attempt. The 5 other teens with him were charged with murder.
Five Chicago teens are being charged with murder after a 14-year-old who was with them during an attempted burglary was shot by the homeowner, authorities said Tuesday.
The group traveled in a stolen Lexus to an Illinois home where they were confronted by the 75-year-old homeowner, according to the Lake County Illinois Sheriff's Office. The man went out to investigate and told authorities he believed someone was trying to steal his car, a 2011 Audi.
"At least one of the male subjects advanced toward him with an unknown object in his hand," officials said in a release. "The homeowner feared for his life and discharged a firearm."
At least one of the rounds from the small caliber revolver struck the 14-year-old, and a knife was later found at the scene of the shooting. The homeowner called 911 to report the attempted burglary and shots fired, but by the time police arrived all of the suspects had fled.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/14/5-teens-charged-murder-14-year-old-shot-by-homeowner-during-burglary-attempt/2013790001/
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good. This will save the court and state a ton of money over the coming years.
jberryhill (57,519 posts)
1. If someone dies during the course of your felony, that happens
yup. The real shame is they are probably all juvi offenders and won't do real time. Well,... not yet anyway.
no_hypocrisy (33,907 posts)
2. This situation is multitextured.
Not addressed: Does Illinois have The Castle Doctrine where a homeowner is legally permitted to use deadly force to protect his/her home?
:thatsright: In blue state hell, you are not allowed to defend yourself on your own property, from violent assault or murder as the criminals rob your home.
forthemiddle (676 posts)
3. I'm sure it will be a self defense claim and not the Castle Doctrine
According to the story, he shot only after one of the teens came towards him, and a knife was found at the scene. That's self defense, and not just protecting his home.
This is a correct judgment on the prosecutors side. He would not be dead, if he and the other teens were not attempting to commit the crime.
Star Member Lochloosa (12,797 posts)
4. It's more of a self defense question. And yes they do have a Castle Doctrine.
http://rnh-law.com/castle-doctrine-and-illinois-law/
maxsolomon (19,265 posts)
10. I dislike everything about this story.
Condolences to the 14 year old's family. They have to be going through a tough time.
:bird:
WhiskeyGrinder (6,209 posts)
11. That's such a garbage law.
:bird: :bird:
WhiskeyGrinder (6,209 posts)
15. It's an astonishing acceleration of charges. A murder charge without intent can be construed
as unconstitutionally cruel and unusual, and tends to affect teenagers more than other groups. It traps people who were committing crimes, but not pulling the trigger (obviously, in this situation), into lifelong sentences. It doesn't deter crime and reinforces the punitive role of the incarceration industry. If people want to charge and punish a teenager, what's wrong with an armed robbery charge? Why accelerate it? As I say, garbage.
Hey, I got an idea. Don't wanna face criminal charges? DON'T DO THE ****ING CRIME.
MicaelS (8,079 posts)
28. I think it is completely misguided.
I have absolutely do not like the part of these laws that when perp A gets killed during the commission of a crime (no matter how he dies), then perps B&C get charged with murder. Especially if a cop or citizen kills A. A's death is not murder, it is justifiable homicide.
As far as I am concerned, this specific application of the statute is completely misguided and morally indefensible.
:thatsright:
Star Member discntnt_irny_srcsm (15,236 posts)
25. Similar laws in several states have been around for awhile
I expect that numerous defense attorneys have argued against them with probably mixed results but the laws are still around.
The essence of these events is:
-Five teens in a stolen car try stealing another car.
-One of them is shot (and killed) by the 75 year old owner as he approached the senior citizen who feared for life and safety.
-The remaining 4 lead police on a chase at over 120 MPH.
-Their stolen car runs out gas and they are all arrested.
-The 4 teens surviving teens, ages 16-18, are charged with murder.
They got the young 14 year old killed while committing at lease a few felonies. Maybe they'll be tried for something a bit less but murder sounds good to me.
BTW, the Bill of Rights mentions cruel and unusual punishment.
Cruel and unusual charges are mentioned no where.
:popcorn: you wanna call the poster discntnt_irny_srcsm a racist now? Because he sounds like he could be a racist... ::)
MicaelS (8,079 posts)
32. I am a believer in strong punishment for violent felons, but......
As far as I am concerned, this specific application of the felony murder statute is completely misguided and morally indefensible.
I do not like the part of these laws that when perp A gets killed during the commission of a crime (no matter how he dies), then perps B&C get charged with murder.
If a cop or citizen kills A, then A's death is not murder, it is justifiable homicide. Murder is unlawful killing with malice aforethought.
I have never understood why this has not gone to SCOTUS. Has anyone not realized the path that is being trod when stating that a cop or citizen is involved in a murder?
it's gone to the SCOTUS a few times...
WhiskeyGrinder (6,209 posts)
35. Yep, and they're all garbage laws.
Getting someone killed is not necessarily murder. Making up a charge to make it murder increases the number of people we incarcerate and punishes people with penalties that now apply to them even if they didn't pull the trigger. To me, that's cruel and unusual. And because these laws tend to fall disproportionately on teens, we then get more kids in the adult incarceration system. There's no evidence it deters crime -- it's simply to punish more.
:mental:
WhiskeyGrinder (6,209 posts)
36. Murder implies premeditation, right? If armed robbery that results in death is a felony murder, why
not charge all armed robbery suspects with attempted murder?
It's a garbage law. It punishes people for things they did not do.
Star Member cwydro (32,745 posts)
12. Good.
Don’t commit crimes.
:popcorn:
killaphill (13 posts)
16. A very sad story
This young man was only 14. Was it really worth shooting him over a car? The homeowner should have retired to his house, locked the door and called the police. If he had, perhaps his car would have been taken, but one child would still be alive and 5 others wouldn't be facing a murder rap.
****ing liberals. Always an excuse about dealing with crime. 'Maybe they would just leave us alone if we let them do (fill in crime).' How about "You ****ing come here to do crime you are leaving in a bag."
Star Member discntnt_irny_srcsm (15,236 posts)
42. A gun is almost never the answer
I didn't read that the Audi owner went out to stop the theft. I only read that he went out. I inferred that he was checking to see what was happening.
In my yard a few kids on the far side of my truck could be trying to corral a renegade family pet or they could be trying to steal the truck. I don't want to call the cops on some neighbors and cause a scene for nothing. Maybe this guy felt the same way.
But:
"The homeowner called 911 to report the attempted burglary and shots fired, but by the time police arrived all of the suspects had fled."
I used to work in a neighboring town and there are roads where the next house is maybe a quarter mile down the road and little subdivisions where houses are 50 - 60 feet apart. I don't know which in this case and apparently the police response time was not quick enough.
:thatsright:
Star Member Beaverhausen (23,287 posts)
23. does someone have to prove they were trying to steal his car?
since this law applies when one is committing a felony, who decides a felony was being committed? Were they in his car driving away?
Codeine (22,574 posts)
39. They were in a stolen car
evading police at 120mph.
:whatever:
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WhiskeyGrinder (6,209 posts)
15. It's an astonishing acceleration of charges. A murder charge without intent can be construed
as unconstitutionally cruel and unusual, and tends to affect teenagers more than other groups. It traps people who were committing crimes, but not pulling the trigger (obviously, in this situation), into lifelong sentences. ...
Too damn bad. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. They all stole the first car. They all attempted to burgle the homeowner's car. They were all there when one of them drew his knife and advanced on the homeowner. This law has been in effect for 4 or 5 decades. It was self-defense, and they all had chosen to participate up until the point they learned the loud way that the homeowner had a gun. If they rot in prison for decades or life, it was what they chose.
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I thought DU was solidly against ‘victim blaming’? Guess not.
KC
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maxsolomon (19,265 posts)
10. I dislike everything about this story.
Condolences to the 14 year old's family. They have to be going through a tough time.
If they gave a crap about him he would not have been in a stolen car trying to find another car to steal.
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maxsolomon (19,265 posts)
10. I dislike everything about this story.
Condolences to the 14 year old's family. They have to be going through a tough time.
My guess is that mama is already getting preggers so she can keep that Uncle Suga money coming in at the usual per month amount she had become accustomed to.
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Did the suspect resemble one of Obama's sons if he had one?
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Did the suspect resemble one of Obama's sons if he had one?
Would DU-folk give a @#$% if the now-deceased thug-wannabe were white? I do not care if the skin color of involuntarily deceased thugs is white, black, or pea-green, but DU-folk seem to think thugs' skin color important.
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If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
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Those others that are charged with murder will probably be offered plea deals. Happens all the time in Florida. Charge them with the max possible and the allow them to plead down to something and avoid a trial.
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If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
On the bright side, hes got loads of time on his hands now although the climate may be a bit warmer than he was accustomed to
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Did the suspect resemble one of Obama's sons if he had one?
The Philadelphia did, and where's all the poutrage now...........