A smear campaign against John McCain is underway...

[The Night Owl]

John Kerry is a total POS opportunist who deserved every single word that the Swifties wrote/said about him.

Every word? Nah. Even some members of the SBVT expressed that they were made uncomfortable by the group's stance on John Kerry's medals.

[Lord Undies]

John Kerry is a total POS opportunist who deserved every single word that the Swifties wrote/said about him.

Every word? Nah. Even some members of the SBVT expressed that they were made uncomfortable by the group's stance on John Kerry's medals.

I'd like to read about that.  Do you have a link?  I am curious to know in what context some of the SBVT were uncomfortable.  My guess is their "discomfort" had nothing to do with exposing Kerry's reputation, as your dangling post implies.

[DaSaintFan]

John Kerry is a total POS opportunist who deserved every single word that the Swifties wrote/said about him.

Every word? Nah. Even some members of the SBVT expressed that they were made uncomfortable by the group's stance on John Kerry's medals.

Their own website had _2_ of the swift boat members on Kerry's crew that supported Kerry, that was it.  The rest were among those of us demanding to see the paperwork on how he got the medal

[guest]

McCain is target of 'dirty tricks campaign'

By Alex Spillius in Columbia, South Carolina
Last Updated: 2:27am GMT 17/01/2008

John McCain, the Republican presidential hopeful, has been accused of betraying fellow prisoners of war in Vietnam in what his aides say is a dirty tricks campaign.

A leaflet circulating in South Carolina, where the next Republican primary contest takes place on Saturday, raised the spectre of the "Swift Boat" campaign that helped to defeat John Kerry in the 2004 presidential election by questioning his courage in Vietnam.

It also served as a reminder of the vicious campaign Mr McCain faced in the same southern state before George W Bush defeated him in the 2000 primary, when shadowy groups claimed he had fathered an illegitimate black child and slandered his daughter.

...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/17/wuspols117.xml

I hope that these clowns who are trying to smear John McCain get sued.

I can't believe those Swifties are trying to smear McCain again. It doesn't really matter whether you support McCain or not. What those SBVT do is pathetic. The article said the group is called "Veterans Against John McCain". Well, according to the article, the allegations against McCain came from one veteran. One vet isn't exactly a group...

We all remember the kind of trash John Kerry got from the SBVT in 2004. The allegations against him were made in "Unfit for Command". The author of that book (John O'Neill) was caught lying about being in Cambodia (He told Nixon that he was in Cambodia but later admitted he wasn't and accused Kerry of lying about being in Cambodia). O'Neill was also the leader of the group. So, if the leader of the group was caught lying, what does that tell us about the group...?   

I can understand why the SBVT hate Kerry because of his anti-war activities in the 1970s, but why are they so eager to smear McCain? He didn't hang out with Jane Fonda, did he?

Oh yay... another troll...   
 I see the liberals are out to screw up another perfectly decent conservative site, like they did with CU.    Why not drag your ass back to DU or wherever it is you come from?  TNO has taken up the position as token liberal, so you're too late trying to apply for the position.   

[Chris_]

McCain is target of 'dirty tricks campaign'

By Alex Spillius in Columbia, South Carolina
Last Updated: 2:27am GMT 17/01/2008

John McCain, the Republican presidential hopeful, has been accused of betraying fellow prisoners of war in Vietnam in what his aides say is a dirty tricks campaign.

A leaflet circulating in South Carolina, where the next Republican primary contest takes place on Saturday, raised the spectre of the "Swift Boat" campaign that helped to defeat John Kerry in the 2004 presidential election by questioning his courage in Vietnam.

It also served as a reminder of the vicious campaign Mr McCain faced in the same southern state before George W Bush defeated him in the 2000 primary, when shadowy groups claimed he had fathered an illegitimate black child and slandered his daughter.

...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/17/wuspols117.xml

I hope that these clowns who are trying to smear John McCain get sued.

I can't believe those Swifties are trying to smear McCain again. It doesn't really matter whether you support McCain or not. What those SBVT do is pathetic. The article said the group is called "Veterans Against John McCain". Well, according to the article, the allegations against McCain came from one veteran. One vet isn't exactly a group...

We all remember the kind of trash John Kerry got from the SBVT in 2004. The allegations against him were made in "Unfit for Command". The author of that book (John O'Neill) was caught lying about being in Cambodia (He told Nixon that he was in Cambodia but later admitted he wasn't and accused Kerry of lying about being in Cambodia). O'Neill was also the leader of the group. So, if the leader of the group was caught lying, what does that tell us about the group...?   

I can understand why the SBVT hate Kerry because of his anti-war activities in the 1970s, but why are they so eager to smear McCain? He didn't hang out with Jane Fonda, did he?

It's a different group, idiot.  And the original group's allegations against Kerry were right on -- every one of them.

This is a two-fer slander/libel.  Designed to make fools think that the original SBVT group is just a mud-slinging bunch. 

Looks like it worked.

[Thor]

McCain DID betray his fellow POWS, all against the Code of Conduct. As a matter of fact, some of the things he did have been taught in SERE school as a way to survive. I don't care for McCain, but it's a matter of record. He wouldn't have even been flying had he not been an Admiral's son.

[TheSarge]

No one needs to run a smear campaign against Capt. Queeg.  His own record is enough to do him in.

[Lauri]

John Kerry is a total POS opportunist who deserved every single word that the Swifties wrote/said about him.

Every word? Nah. Even some members of the SBVT expressed that they were made uncomfortable by the group's stance on John Kerry's medals.

Their own website had _2_ of the swift boat members on Kerry's crew that supported Kerry, that was it.  The rest were among those of us demanding to see the paperwork on how he got the medal

has anyone seen that paperwork yet? last i heard, it was no... no one has seen it ..

[Jack Pott]

John Kerry is a total POS opportunist who deserved every single word that the Swifties wrote/said about him.

Every word? Nah. Even some members of the SBVT expressed that they were made uncomfortable by the group's stance on John Kerry's medals.

I'd like to read about that.  Do you have a link?  I am curious to know in what context some of the SBVT were uncomfortable.  My guess is their "discomfort" had nothing to do with exposing Kerry's reputation, as your dangling post implies.

One member of the SBVT (George Elliott) said in an interview that he made a ''terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that implied that Kerry didn't deserve his Silver Star. Elliott said in the following article that he regretted signing the affidavit and said Kerry deserved the medal:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

Are you aware of this?:

Kerry takes oilman Pickens up on $1 million Swift Boat challenge

November 16, 2007
 
BOSTON --Sen. John Kerry, whose 2004 presidential campaign was torpedoed by critics of his Vietnam War record, said Friday he has personally accepted Texas oilman T. Boone Pickens' offer of $1 million to anyone who can disprove even a single charge of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
 
Pickens, who provided $3 million to bankroll the group during Kerry's race against President Bush, responded by saying he won't consider giving Kerry the reward unless he surrenders his combat films, additional military records and wartime journal.
 
"While I am prepared to show they lied on allegation after allegation, you have generously offered to pay one million dollars for just one thing that can be proven false," Kerry wrote to Pickens. "I am prepared to prove the lie beyond any reasonable doubt."
 
The Massachusetts Democrat, a Navy veteran and former prosecutor, said he was willing to present his case directly to Pickens and would donate any proceeds to the Paralyzed Veterans of America.
 
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/11/16/kerry_takes_oilman_pickens_up_on_1_million_swift_boat_challenge/
 

I'm interested to see if Kerry can disprove the allegations made by the SBVT. He clearly seems to think so. If he can't, then it shows the SBVT were onto something. It shows the allegations against him could be true. On the other hand, if he can disprove some of the allegations, then...   

[NHSparky]

And yet it's been two months and Kerry has yet to dispute one of the claims.

How long were we supposed to wait?  I mean, if it were me, even if I were rich, I sure could use an extra milliion bucks.

[Jack Pott]

And yet it's been two months and Kerry has yet to dispute one of the claims.

How long were we supposed to wait?  I mean, if it were me, even if I were rich, I sure could use an extra milliion bucks.

I know. It's been too long. If he thinks he can disprove the allegations, then it shouldn't take this long. On the other hand, the SBVT didn't provide concrete proof to support their allegations, or did they? I think one of them even admitted that they had no documentation to support the claims. BUT, Kerry took the challenge, which means the burden of proof is on him...

[TheSarge]

And yet it's been two months and Kerry has yet to dispute one of the claims.

How long were we supposed to wait?  I mean, if it were me, even if I were rich, I sure could use an extra milliion bucks.

I know. It's been too long. If he thinks he can disprove the allegations, then it shouldn't take this long. On the other hand, the SBVT didn't provide concrete proof to support their allegations, or did they? I think one of them even admitted that they had no documentation to support the claims. BUT, Kerry took the challenge, which means the burden of proof is on him...

The fact of the matter is that if the POS from Mass could disprove the claims...he'd have done it within the first two weeks of the original claims 4 years ago.

He didn't.  Signing an SF-180 would open up too many more questions that he's uncomfortable having to answer and would ruin what little is left of his "war hero" image.

He hasn't taken on any challenge...he's done everything he can to avoid it.

The fact that ANYONE would still try to defend this jackass boggles my mind.

[formerlurker]

One member of the SBVT (George Elliott) said in an interview that he made a ''terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that implied that Kerry didn't deserve his Silver Star. Elliott said in the following article that he regretted signing the affidavit and said Kerry deserved the medal:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

read this, and this, and this.

Oh and then read this:

One of the most important of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth turns out to be a neighbor of mine, and so I've been lucky enough to have a few chats with him this summer. Captain George Elliott is a graduate of Annapolis, his back is still straight, and he deeply loves and honors the United States Navy. I want to keep what we talk about off the record, so as to not mix friendship with work. But there is one point I've learned from him that is so important to the ongoing debate, especially on the Kerry side (that is, the Big Media side), that I asked his permission to present it in public.

In recent days, I've heard at least three Kerry-supporting journalists say that the story of the Swift Boat Vets is crumbling. That certainly surprised me, so I listened carefully. One of the three or four instances they glancingly cited concerned Captain Elliott's testimony on behalf of Kerry in the Senate campaign of 1996.

They have missed an absolutely crucial point. In 1996, Kerry was being accused by a journalist of having committed war crimes. Captain Elliott and others hated this charge with regard to anything that occurred under their command, and so, putting out of mind Kerry's use of the same charge in 1971 against them and their fellows in Vietnam, these good men were willing to go to Boston "to defend the honor of the U.S. Navy," this time in the person of John Kerry. Thus, Captain Elliott's support of Kerry in 1996 does not contradict the criticism he makes now. And he is far from backing down in his support for the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. He is painfully truthful himself, and is scrupulous in choosing his words.

That much I quote from Captain Elliott. What comes next is my own.

Close followers of this debate will know that the paperwork describing the actions on which Kerry's Silver and Bronze Stars were originally based came from Lieutenant (j.g.) Kerry's reports, passed up until they came to Captain Elliott. The Navy system is based on the honor code.

Only when they read the accounts published in the campaign biographies by Douglas Brinkley and a team from the Boston Globe did Kerry's superiors and peers, including Captain Elliott, come to see how widely Kerry's perception and self-serving descriptions differed from reality. Beginning then, they started to reevaluate everything they had heard from him back then. The man presented in those books was not the man they knew, and the events were not the events they knew. In wartime, one must trust one's mates. After they saw those books, they saw what Kerry reported to them then in a new light.

I infer that Captain Elliott and others in 1969 took on trust some reports from Kerry, reports they can no longer consider as truthful as they thought them before.

In later years, Kerry said in Senate debate that he often sent up action reports whose exact words he later read in Stars & Stripes, except that some of the numbers he had given of enemy casualties had been inflated by higher-ups. He admitted to somewhat inflating his reports himself, but said his superiors inflated them further. To my ears, this sounds like a man without honor later projecting his own weaknesses on others.

Today it is not the Swift Boat Veterans' story that is crumbling, but Kerry's. Two of its five pillars have already collapsed. The story that he said publicly for years had been "seared — seared" into his memory never happened: that so-called "Christmas in Cambodia 1968," when "President Nixon" was in the White House (in 1968, it was actually President Johnson).

Kerry's campaign has also admitted that his first Purple Heart — from December 2, 1968 — was probably not from action under hostile fire, but was from a self-inflicted wound caused by a small shred of shrapnel from a grenade Kerry himself launched at an unseen target. Both the attending doctor and Kerry's commanding officer, separately, refused to recommend a Purple Heart for so minor a wound. To this point, it is not known how Kerry ended up finding someone to award it.

There is no real need to argue over the other disputed points. All could be resolved if Kerry released his entire Navy file. He swears publicly these days that he is telling the absolute honest truth. The records would therefore bear him out. He should release them. Why is the Kerry press afraid to insist on that?

It would be good for all of us if we could simply honor Kerry for his service to his country, as President Bush has already said he does. But it would be far better still to have evidence that Kerry's word of honor is reliable. That evidence could be provided by the records.

NRO


John Kerry is pond scum who I wouldn't cross the street to spit on if he were on fire.   War hero my ass.

[Lord Undies]

John Kerry is a total POS opportunist who deserved every single word that the Swifties wrote/said about him.

Every word? Nah. Even some members of the SBVT expressed that they were made uncomfortable by the group's stance on John Kerry's medals.

I'd like to read about that.  Do you have a link?  I am curious to know in what context some of the SBVT were uncomfortable.  My guess is their "discomfort" had nothing to do with exposing Kerry's reputation, as your dangling post implies.

One member of the SBVT (George Elliott) said in an interview that he made a ''terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that implied that Kerry didn't deserve his Silver Star. Elliott said in the following article that he regretted signing the affidavit and said Kerry deserved the medal:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

See formerlurker's post above.  I was gathering the same info and noticed formerlurker had already posted it.

Thank you, formerlurker.

Are you aware of this?:

Kerry takes oilman Pickens up on $1 million Swift Boat challenge

I am very aware of it.  The slimeball Kerry responded by announcing he could indeed prove a lie had been told about himself by the SBVT.  Then slimball Kerry acted as if his announcement was all that was necessary.  The actual proof was never forecoming.  Once again, Kerry's "word" was all we needed to hear.  What an arrogant jackass!  What a pompous prick!

Fortunately, Mr. Pickens is one thousand times the man slimeball Kerry can ever hope to be.

[Lauri]

And yet it's been two months and Kerry has yet to dispute one of the claims.

How long were we supposed to wait?  I mean, if it were me, even if I were rich, I sure could use an extra milliion bucks.

and didnt Pickens make that offer over a year ago?? it took Kerry that long to figure out if he could defend himself or not? what a chump! he should have been able to answer right away. not a fricking year after..  people who lie a lot probably have to sit and think about what the actual truth is.. or how to spin it to look more truthful.

but i agree, if kerry has some info to shed light on this issue, he should bring it forward...

[TheSarge]

John Kerry is pond scum who I wouldn't cross the street to spit on if he were on fire.   War hero my ass.

[TheSarge]

There is an actual Swift Boater over at CU that I've talked to about Kerry.  The guy served with him.

I'll take his word over Kerry's or one of his defenders ANY day of the week.

[Lauri]

There is an actual Swift Boater over at CU that I've talked to about Kerry.  The guy served with him.

I'll take his word over Kerry's or one of his defenders ANY day of the week.

really? hmm... thats interesting.

i'm just tempted to believe the SBVT because Kerry has had four years to prove them as liars. he hasnt.

then Mr Pickens issued that reward for info... nobody has stepped forward and Kerry took a long, long time to answer..

if he isnt somewhat complicit, then he would have defended himself years ago..

[TheSarge]

There is an actual Swift Boater over at CU that I've talked to about Kerry.  The guy served with him.

I'll take his word over Kerry's or one of his defenders ANY day of the week.

really? hmm... thats interesting.

i'm just tempted to believe the SBVT because Kerry has had four years to prove them as liars. he hasnt.

then Mr Pickens issued that reward for info... nobody has stepped forward and Kerry took a long, long time to answer..

if he isnt somewhat complicit, then he would have defended himself years ago..

MTBoone...he didn't post much...but I learned a lot from him about Kerry.

[The Night Owl]

There is an actual Swift Boater over at CU that I've talked to about Kerry.  The guy served with him.

I'll take his word over Kerry's or one of his defenders ANY day of the week.

If you're willing to believe what those who served with John Kerry have to say about him, then shouldn't you also be willing to believe what the men who served on the boats Kerry commanded have to say about him?

[Lord Undies]

There is an actual Swift Boater over at CU that I've talked to about Kerry.  The guy served with him.

I'll take his word over Kerry's or one of his defenders ANY day of the week.

If you're willing to believe what those who served with John Kerry have to say about him, then shouldn't you also be willing to believe what the men who served on the boats Kerry commanded have to say about him?

That would depend.  Are these men liberals too?  Liberals lie.  Liberals lie all the time.  It is how their ideology survives.

[The Night Owl]

That would depend.  Are these men liberals too?  Liberals lie.  Liberals lie all the time.  It is how their ideology survives.

I don't know. I do know, however, that at least two of the men who were involved in the incident which earned John Kerry the Silver Star, Jim Rassman and Jerry Leeds, are both registered Republicans who lauded him for his service.

[Lord Undies]

That would depend.  Are these men liberals too?  Liberals lie.  Liberals lie all the time.  It is how their ideology survives.

I don't know. I do know, however, that at least two of the people who were involved in the incident which earned John Kerry the Silver Star, Jim Rassman and Jerry Leeds, are both registered Republicans.

I'm a registered democrat.  What's your point?

[The Night Owl]

I'm a registered democrat.  What's your point?

You're not the norm. Registered Democrats are usually liberal or moderately liberal. Conversely, registered Republicans are usually conservative or moderately conservative. I don't know if Jim Rassman and Jerry Leeds are liberals or conservatives, but the fact that they are registered Republicans tells me that there is a good chance that they are conservatives.

[Lord Undies]

I'm a registered democrat.  What's your point?

You're not the norm. Registered Democrats are usually liberal or moderately liberal. Conversely, registered Republicans are usually conservative or moderately conservative. I don't know if Jim Rassman and Jerry Leeds are liberals or conservatives, but the fact that they are registered Republicans tells me that there is a good chance that they are conservatives.

So we can both agree you naming Jim Rassman and Jerry Leeds, without knowing the political ideology of either man, is pointless?