Mind-Numbed Theocratic Fundie Apocalypse on the Way???

[daveman]

Scarifices are Old Testament Law.  Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice, so I would know that the "being" before me is an imposter, as blood sacrifice is no longer needed for salvation.

Getting you to kill someone may not be the apparation's intent. The apparition's intent may be getting you to agree to kill someone.

Just as God did not want Isaac slain, the apparation may not want the next person you see wearing red shoes to be killed. In asking you to kill the next person you see wearing red shoes, God may be testing your trust in him in the same way that he tested Abraham's trust in him. So, what do you do?

Post stupid questions on the internet. 

[Chris_]

Oy vey! Yes, TNO has me speaking yiddish now. 

You want I should find you a hit man wholesale?

Laffing, cuz if I didn't laff, Im die.

[MrsSmith]

As God is the One Who said we can't look upon Him with dying, what makes you think He'd want to prevent it? 

And I do have a habit of ignoring ridiculous questions...it's the product of raising 5 kids.

Oh, for crying out loud. I'm not saying what God would or wouldn't do. What I'm saying is that if God wanted to appear before someone without having that person die, it could do that, could it not?

You're just trying to avoid the question.

With the exception of Moses, whose relationship with God in the form of a cloud or pillar of flame caused him to require a veil due to the light coming from his skin, every other person who needed to hear from God either saw an angel or knew Christ.  The point isn't whether or not God could do such a thing, the point is that God wouldn't do such a thing because He told us that we can't look upon Him with dying. 

[The Night Owl]

With the exception of Moses, whose relationship with God in the form of a cloud or pillar of flame caused him to require a veil due to the light coming from his skin, every other person who needed to hear from God either saw an angel or knew Christ.  The point isn't whether or not God could do such a thing, the point is that God wouldn't do such a thing because He told us that we can't look upon Him with dying. 

A supreme being can change it's mind, can it not?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Poor little TNO.

Still trying to use Reason, Justice and Mercy to argue Reason, Justice and Mercy don't exist.

[Flame]

Poor little TNO.

Still trying to use Reason, Justice and Mercy to argue Reason, Justice and Mercy don't exist.

actually he's not trying to use reason or anything else...he's just doing what he does bst...being an irritating, argumentative 'tard.

[franksolich]

Wow.

The nocturnally foul one's still alive, although just barely.

[The Night Owl]

Wow.

The nocturnally foul one's still alive, although just barely.

I'm doing just fine, thank you.

[MrsSmith]

With the exception of Moses, whose relationship with God in the form of a cloud or pillar of flame caused him to require a veil due to the light coming from his skin, every other person who needed to hear from God either saw an angel or knew Christ.  The point isn't whether or not God could do such a thing, the point is that God wouldn't do such a thing because He told us that we can't look upon Him with dying. 

A supreme being can change it's mind, can it not?

Actually, there are scriptures that support the idea that God will change His mind in response to repentance and prayer.  Maybe if you work at both really hard...   

[The Night Owl]

Actually, there are scriptures that support the idea that God will change His mind in response to repentance and prayer.  Maybe if you work at both really hard...   

Nah. If God exists and is omniscient, then it can't change its mind about anything because any thought it has is formed with perfect foreknowledge of whether it will change its mind or not.

[MrsSmith]

Actually, there are scriptures that support the idea that God will change His mind in response to repentance and prayer.  Maybe if you work at both really hard...   

Nah. If God exists and is omniscient, then it can't change it's mind about anything because any thought it has is formed with perfect foreknowledge of whether it will change its mind or not.

So He knows when you're going to pray and repent.  Works for me! :innocent:

[Carl]

With the exception of Moses, whose relationship with God in the form of a cloud or pillar of flame caused him to require a veil due to the light coming from his skin, every other person who needed to hear from God either saw an angel or knew Christ.  The point isn't whether or not God could do such a thing, the point is that God wouldn't do such a thing because He told us that we can't look upon Him with dying. 

A supreme being can change it's mind, can it not?

Now you are being ridiculous because there is simply no "point" to be made by your arguement (?).

While God could very easily make a decree at some point and change it later all the while knowing He was going to do that what of it?
The fact that He has made a declaration means He knows He will not change it so it will be eternal.
Now we can talk about this forever in circles but I fail to see what you are trying to prove or what you are seeking to establish and why.

Now then I would say it is up to you to explain what you are asking/proposing and why.
If it is to play games then I guess there are better things one can do with time.

[The Night Owl]

So He knows when you're going to pray and repent.  Works for me! :innocent:

Right... An omniscient being knows everything... past, present, and future. So, if God knows where each of us will end up, then why should any of us pretend that we have a choice in the matter?

[The Night Owl]

While God could very easily make a decree at some point and change it later all the while knowing He was going to do that what of it?

The point is that if God can perfectly predict the future, then the future can't be changed. If the future can't be changed, then God doesn't have free will. He is following a script which is simply playing out.

[Carl]

While God could very easily make a decree at some point and change it later all the while knowing He was going to do that what of it?

The point is that if God can perfectly predict the future, then the future can't be changed. If the future can't be changed, then God doesn't have free will. He is following a script which is simply playing out.

What you are ignoring is that it isn`t a script or a prediction He is reacting to but His own plan by His own will.
I suspect that this isn`t out of ignorance but is a deliberate and subtle attempt to deny His existence without saying so.

[The Night Owl]

What you are ignoring is that it isn`t a script or a prediction He is reacting to but His own plan by His own will.

Regardless of what we call existence, the fact remains that a future which is perfectly predicted is a future which cannot be changed.

[Carl]

What you are ignoring is that it isn`t a script or a prediction He is reacting to but His own plan by His own will.

Regardless of what we call existence, the fact remains that a future which is perfectly predicted is a future which cannot be changed.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make exactly.

God has allowed us to have free will,therefore we are capable of altering our lives whether it is in accordance with Gods will or it isn`t.
That doesn`t negate His omnipotence or omniscience.

If you don`t believe in God that is your choice and part of that free will,so be it.

[The Night Owl]

I have no idea what point you are trying to make exactly.

If God has the ability to perfectly predict something you will do, then you can't decide against that action because doing so would mean that God did not perfectly predict what you would do... which is impossible since God is supposed to be perfect... hence, no free will.

God has allowed us to have free will,therefore we are capable of altering our lives whether it is in accordance with Gods will or it isn`t.
That doesn`t negate His omnipotence or omniscience.

The idea that God has a plan contradicts the idea that mankind has free will. If mankind has free will, then mankind can subvert God's plan. If mankind can subvert God's plan, then the plan is both God's plan and mankind's plan.

[Carl]

I have no idea what point you are trying to make exactly.

If God has the ability to perfectly predict something you will do, then you can't decide against that action because doing so would mean that God did not perfectly predict what you would do... hence, no free will.

God has allowed us to have free will,therefore we are capable of altering our lives whether it is in accordance with Gods will or it isn`t.
That doesn`t negate His omnipotence or omniscience.

The idea that God has a plan contradicts the idea that mankind has free will. If mankind has free will, then mankind can subvert God's plan. If mankind can subvert God's plan, then the plan is both God's plan and mankind's plan.

Once again you are attempting to use subtle words to throw off the subject,in this case "predict" to assert that God does not already know the eventual outcome.
That is not the point of discussion,whether God knows and will allow things to happen outside His plan.
The answer is yes,God does know and allow it.

You are attempting to re-define the terms to alter the subject.

[The Night Owl]

Once again you are attempting to use subtle words to throw off the subject,in this case "predict" to assert that God does not already know the eventual outcome.

I'm not arguing that God does not know outcomes... just the opposite. What I'm arguing is that if God knows outcomes, then those outcomes can't be changed.

[Carl]

Once again you are attempting to use subtle words to throw off the subject,in this case "predict" to assert that God does not already know the eventual outcome.

I'm not arguing that God does not know outcomes... just the opposite. What I'm arguing is that if God knows outcomes, then those outcomes can't be changed.

Then I guess there is no real issue,God knows what choices a person will make and what the eventual outcome of those choices will be.

He doesn`t want a person to reject Him but if a person does then He also knows the consequences and final result as He has declared.

[MrsSmith]

TNO, God does not "predict" the future.  He knows the outcome because He exists outside time.  The fact that He knows what you'll choose does not negate your choice. 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

So He knows when you're going to pray and repent.  Works for me! :innocent:

Right... An omniscient being knows everything... past, present, and future. So, if God knows where each of us will end up, then why should any of us pretend that we have a choice in the matter?

The individual doesn't know.

That would mean any acts by deity to secure penance, salvation or whatnot would not have any effect on omniscience but be solely geared towards leading the actualization of the free individual.

When Moses was returning from Sinai and the people were dancing about the golden calf God told Moses to see what the people were doing and then stand aside while He annihilated them and used Moses to raise up a new nation.

Why would Omnipotence ask a mere elderly human to stand aside when It could affect It's will at any time? Obviously It has no need. It was allowing Moses to move beyond his role as lawgiver and assume the role of intercessor.