« previous next »
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Zoos  (Read 1834 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mariya1234

  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 3
  • Reputation: +3/-14
Zoos
« on: April 16, 2009, 03:18:01 AM »
The claim that animals have ‘rights’ was first put forward by the Australian philosopher Peter Singer in the 1970s and has been the subject of heated and emotional debates ever since. Animals belong in their natural habitat in the wild. Whatever the good intentions of zoo-keepers, animals in zoos suffer. Adults and children visiting zoos will be given the subliminal message that it is OK to use animals for our own ends, however it impinges on their freedom or quality of life; thus zoos will encourage poor treatment of animals more generally. There are two problems with the claim that zoos are beneficial because they help to conserve endangered species. As above, research into animals (when it respects their rights and is not cruel or harmful) may be valuable, but it does not need to happen in the context of confinement and human entertainment. Should we ban the keeping of animals in zoos?
Logged

Offline Flame

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4361
  • Reputation: +166/-34
Re: Zoos
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2009, 05:45:01 AM »
No, we shouldn't.   There are many species that would no longer exist were it not for the breeding programs in some zoos.   And zoos of today are not like the zoos of yesterday.


(BTW...it would be nice to introduce yourself, get to know us and let us get to know you  bit before you come in and post THREE inflamitory type topics as you intordicutory posts....could bee seen as a bit trollish).
Logged

Offline Lord Undies

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11388
  • Reputation: +639/-250
Re: Zoos
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2009, 06:34:40 AM »
I work from this point of view:

If I were a wild animal I would exercise my animal rights and insist I be housed in a zoo.  I would be quite content to be feed on schedule, have a doctors on staff to see to my every need, and be kept completely safe from my natural predators. 

I would be quite pissed about no-nothing idiot human do-gooders trying to ruin my good thing.
Logged

Offline TheSarge

  • Platoon Sergeant
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9557
  • Reputation: +411/-252
Re: Zoos
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2009, 06:39:08 AM »
Quote from: Mariya1234 on April 16, 2009, 03:18:01 AM
The claim that animals have ‘rights’ was first put forward by the Australian philosopher Peter Singer in the 1970s and has been the subject of heated and emotional debates ever since. Animals belong in their natural habitat in the wild. Whatever the good intentions of zoo-keepers, animals in zoos suffer. Adults and children visiting zoos will be given the subliminal message that it is OK to use animals for our own ends, however it impinges on their freedom or quality of life; thus zoos will encourage poor treatment of animals more generally. There are two problems with the claim that zoos are beneficial because they help to conserve endangered species. As above, research into animals (when it respects their rights and is not cruel or harmful) may be valuable, but it does not need to happen in the context of confinement and human entertainment. Should we ban the keeping of animals in zoos?


« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 06:41:00 AM by TxRadioguy »
Logged
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline franksolich

  • Scourge of the Primitives
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58696
  • Reputation: +3070/-173
Re: Zoos
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2009, 06:49:36 AM »
I dunno.

Seeing the way people, especially primitives, are such idiots about gooing and gawing over innocent wild animals, I've always been against zoos.

It's really disgusting and classless, the way some people just won't leave animals alone.

I'm surely one of the best friends nature and the environment have; I just leave nature and the environment alone to do their own thing, without interference from me.

If one wants to know what a polar bear looks like, one can go to the library and check out a book; likewise, if one wants to know what the mountains look like, one can go to the library and check out a book.

After reading a primitive complaining that the grass in Yellowstone National Park isn't mowed and flowers planted and sidewalks installed, I decided the last best hope for preservation of that natural nature treasure would be erection of a 400-foot-tall wall around the whole thing, so as to keep humans out and to let nature do its own thing unmolested. 

If someone wants to see Old Faithful erupt, they can go to the library and check out a book.

I know this is a minority opinion, but it's mine, and there you have it.
Logged
apres moi, le deluge

Offline mamacags

  • Smells like teen spirit
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4281
  • Reputation: +444/-113
  • Little Miss Cranky Pants
Re: Zoos
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2009, 07:17:10 AM »
Grouping them all together like that makes it easier to get a good dinner when an EMP or chem trails kill off 99% of the population and turn them into zombie hordes!
Logged
All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.
Winston Churchill

Offline asdf2231

  • would like to cordially invite you to the pants party!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6562
  • Reputation: +555/-162
  • VRWC Arts And Crafts Director
Re: Zoos
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2009, 09:07:33 AM »
Quote from: mamacags on April 16, 2009, 07:17:10 AM
Grouping them all together like that makes it easier to get a good dinner when an EMP or chem trails kill off 99% of the population and turn them into zombie hordes!

That does it!

Leave your spouse and run away with me!  Anyone who can think that far in advance about food sources during the radioactive zombie crisis to come deserves to be my Queen!

We will raise a race of swarthy superchildren together and repopulate the globe after the last zombie get's double tapped.

:-)
Logged




Build a man a fire and he will be warm for awhile.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life...

Offline thundley4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40571
  • Reputation: +2222/-127
Re: Zoos
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2009, 09:08:26 AM »
Logged

Offline VelvetElvis

  • Misunderestimated
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1285
  • Reputation: +123/-5
  • Drill Sgt for the DeathSquadHateForce
Re: Zoos
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2009, 09:50:05 AM »
Quote from: Mariya1234 on April 16, 2009, 03:18:01 AM
<snip> Should we ban the keeping of animals in zoos?

Heavens no!  Where would all of the denizens of the Democratic Underground live then?
Logged
Proud Member of the Death Squad Hate Force Since  1980

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23049
  • Reputation: +2233/-269
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Zoos
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2009, 10:05:18 AM »
Singer starts from the premise we're merely another animal only with pants and as such he is no better than the animals he holds captive. Yet, animals conduct some of the most morally reprehensible acts in relation to each other. Ever see a mother hamster eating her young? Male lions will kill the cubs of a predecessor if he takes over the harem. Chickens and other flocking fowl will savagely peck diseased or stricken members to death...whereas humans treat their sick and injured. No humane slaughter houses when predators feed, just raw brutality. The list goes on...

...BUT...

...the Singers of the world (who also finds no moral quandry with incest, pedophilia and bestiality) claim that man is better than that and showed know better and should treat lesser beings HUMANely rather than with the same unfeeling ruthlessness they treat each other.

How is it we can go from amoral shaved ape one minute to morally obligated higher being the next?

Singer is a self-contradicting fraud. If he cannot even define the qualities of his premise (man) how can the question be reasonably answered?
Logged
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline MrsSmith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5977
  • Reputation: +465/-54
Re: Zoos
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2009, 07:30:18 PM »
Quote from: Mariya1234 on April 16, 2009, 03:18:01 AM
The claim that animals have ‘rights’ was first put forward by the Australian philosopher Peter Singer in the 1970s and has been the subject of heated and emotional debates ever since. Animals belong in their natural habitat in the wild. Whatever the good intentions of zoo-keepers, animals in zoos suffer. Adults and children visiting zoos will be given the subliminal message that it is OK to use animals for our own ends, however it impinges on their freedom or quality of life; thus zoos will encourage poor treatment of animals more generally. There are two problems with the claim that zoos are beneficial because they help to conserve endangered species. As above, research into animals (when it respects their rights and is not cruel or harmful) may be valuable, but it does not need to happen in the context of confinement and human entertainment. Should we ban the keeping of animals in zoos?

The claim that Peter Singer has a functioning brain was first put forth by Peter Singer, but it was found to be false.

"Singer states that arguments for or against abortion should be based on utilitarian calculation which weighs the preferences of a mother against the preferences of the fetus. A preference is anything sought to be obtained or avoided; all forms of benefit or harm caused to a being correspond directly with the satisfaction or frustration of one or more of its preferences. Since a capacity to experience suffering or satisfaction is a prerequisite to having any preferences at all, and a fetus, at least up to around eighteen weeks, says Singer, has no capacity to suffer or feel satisfaction, it is not possible for such a fetus to hold any preferences at all. In a utilitarian calculation, there is nothing to weigh against a mother's preferences to have an abortion, therefore abortion is morally permissible.

Similar to his argument for abortion, Singer argues that newborns similarly lack the essential characteristics of personhood — "rationality, autonomy, and self-consciousness"[28] — and therefore "killing a newborn baby is never equivalent to killing a person, that is, a being who wants to go on living."

Logged
.
.

Antifa - the only fascists in America today.

Offline Duke Nukum

  • Assistant Chair of the Committee on Neighborhood Services
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8015
  • Reputation: +561/-202
  • O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
Re: Zoos
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 08:23:48 PM »
What about animal crackers?  It could be argued that playing with/eating animal crackers and keeping them in that cool box is the gateway to becoming a zoo keeper.  Maybe banning animal crackers would automatically resolve zoos just like banning candy cigarettes has led to the disappearance of smoking.

Eventually, all social engineering starts with the  anthropomorphised treats we eat as children.  Just like the Garbage Pail Kids led to an explosion of homelessness throughout the 1980's and into the 1990's.  And Slime with Worms led to the explosion of toxic waste bars and killer mutants we are dealing with today.

If you want to make the world a better place you must steal candy from babies.
Logged
“A man who has been through bitter experiences and travelled far enjoys even his sufferings after a time”
― Homer, The Odyssey

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Zoos
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2009, 09:09:37 PM »
Quote from: TxRadioguy on April 16, 2009, 06:39:08 AM



Yup.  At least this troll has the sense to be civil whe it first starts it's CC career.  Makes it easier to kill it on the merits of it's posts, rather than use it up as a chew toy for it's bad manners.
Logged
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Duke Nukum

  • Assistant Chair of the Committee on Neighborhood Services
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8015
  • Reputation: +561/-202
  • O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
Re: Zoos
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2009, 01:41:55 PM »
Quote from: DefiantSix on April 16, 2009, 09:09:37 PM
Yup.  At least this troll has the sense to be civil whe it first starts it's CC career.  Makes it easier to kill it on the merits of it's posts, rather than use it up as a chew toy for it's bad manners.

It isn't even concerned with another point of view.  It already knows the "answer" to the question it is posing and doesn't care if anybody disagrees, in fact, that is better because then it can feel superior.  It is a simple arc-reflex machine looking to connect with other arc-reflex machines that will either agree with it or rage against it.  Either will make it feel special and superior.
Logged
“A man who has been through bitter experiences and travelled far enjoys even his sufferings after a time”
― Homer, The Odyssey

Offline rich_t

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7942
  • Reputation: +386/-429
  • TANSTAAFL
Re: Zoos
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2009, 01:49:15 PM »
Just as newbies can't see the Fight Club until they've made a minumum number of posts.

Why not set a simlar rule for allowing them to create topics?  It would eliminate the drive by type posts that get posted here.
Logged
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline thundley4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40571
  • Reputation: +2222/-127
Re: Zoos
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2009, 01:55:23 PM »
Quote from: rich_t on April 17, 2009, 01:49:15 PM
Just as newbies can't see the Fight Club until they've made a minumum number of posts.

Why not set a simlar rule for allowing them to create topics?  It would eliminate the drive by type posts that get posted here.

There would have to be an exception for the "Welcomes and Introductions" forum.  Then a gain there have been some recent "noobs" that have made some good contributions within their first few posts.
Logged

Offline Gratiot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1288
  • Reputation: +45/-18
Re: Zoos
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2009, 10:05:20 AM »
Quote from: Mariya1234 on April 16, 2009, 03:18:01 AM
There are two problems with the claim that zoos are beneficial because they help to conserve endangered species.

What about the animals which only exist today because of their careful breeding and care, via zoos and conservation areas?

Sigh, of course you're not going to respond...
Logged

Offline Mr Mannn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14885
  • Reputation: +2646/-276
Re: Zoos
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2009, 12:09:52 PM »
Quote from: Gratiot on April 19, 2009, 10:05:20 AM
What about the animals which only exist today because of their careful breeding and care, via zoos and conservation areas?

Sigh, of course you're not going to respond...
Mariya would have a LOT more respect around here if she would respond.
This IS a discussion board. Drive by posting accomplishes nothing. -
Logged

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Zoos
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2009, 02:26:54 PM »
Quote from: Mr Mannn on April 19, 2009, 12:09:52 PM
Mariya would have a LOT more respect around here if she would respond.
This IS a discussion board. Drive by posting accomplishes nothing. -
I'd say the odds of that are quite low.  It would be like expecting Barry to answer a question without a teleprompter.
Logged
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline RobJohnson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8876
  • Reputation: +332/-109
Re: Zoos
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2009, 03:20:32 PM »
Quote from: Gratiot on April 19, 2009, 10:05:20 AM
What about the animals which only exist today because of their careful breeding and care, via zoos and conservation areas?

Sigh, of course you're not going to respond...

That must be bad also.  :-)
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »