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Sun May 16, 2021, 10:02 AMStar Member kentuck (101,569 posts)How close did the "attempted coup" come to succeeding?Perhaps much closer than any of us think?They succeeded in stopping the Electoral Count at its prescribed time and schedule. Circumstances permitted the House and Senate to re-convene later that night and to continue the vote they had begun earlier in the day.What circumstances permitted them to re-convene?The Electoral Count was stopped as House members and Senators scrambled to get out of harms way, as the angry mob made its way thru the Capitol. Leaders of both Parties were calling Donald Trump for assistance and asking him to speak and to call off the mob. He refused.The fear and the horror continued for several hours. People hid in their offices, in closets and under desks, as the rampage continued. Many Capitol Hill policemen were injured, some of them quite severely as they fought off the mob. (There is little doubt but that their heroic efforts gave the Senators and House members time to escape to safer grounds) Some people died.Still, Trump reveled in the actions of his supporters as they raised the Trump flag and lowered the American flag. He refused to give them the help they needed.Someone called the Governor of Maryland, Larry Hogan, for help. He agreed to send the Maryland State Police and the Maryland National Guard to assist in the defense of the Capitol. Eventually Trump agreed to speak to the mob and in kind re-assuring words, he told them to go home. The people now could see what happens when an election is a "fraud". (To this day, he still has not denounced this insurrection and attempted coup)If the Governor of Maryland had not sent the police and the National Guard, would there have been a re-convening of the Congress? Would the Electoral Count have continued? Would Trump have sent the military in to quell the situation? We do not know.But, it does seem that the "coup" was much closer than we might have thought.
kentuck (101,569 posts) 2. If they had captured Mike Pence...?Do you think they would have put the rope around his neck??I think they probably would have.
JohnSJ (77,779 posts) 3. I think we came very close. There were people in that mob who had every intention of doing harmto the VP, Democratic leaders and Democratic members in the House and Senate, and they would have used that as justification to declare martial law if that happened.If that had occurred, in the aftermath, and based on the "lines of succession", the republicans would have had full control, Quoteand I have no doubt they would have suspended the Constitution, and declared the election null and void.Eyeball_Kid (5,909 posts) 7. Anyone casually following the events and the behavior of Trumpy-Boyhad come to the logical conclusion that martial law and suspension of the Constitution were predictable outcomes.What Trump and his band of counterrevolutionaries and fascists didn't consider was the chaos of violent group actions. They didn't do well with contingency planning based on the assumption that their plans would go awry at some point or another. Military commanders normally consider managing chaos as part of the scope of planning and design. Trump, as we all know, as no understanding of such matters, and was completely consumed by basking in glory as his worshippers attempted a government overthrow IN HIS NAME. This is why the coup failed. If Trump had experience with any kind of military command, we'd be living under "provisional dictatorial rule" right now. Thankfully, he was plain stupid.
and I have no doubt they would have suspended the Constitution, and declared the election null and void.
JohnSJ (77,779 posts) 11. True. We were very lucky, and when the truth comes out, and history books are written, I thinkit show how close we came.Like the Cuban missile crisis, we came very close to a nuclear war than I think many realized at the time. All it needed was one renegade general to light the match, and I think Curtis LeMay was very close to doing just that, but fortunately JFK and McNamara put the brakes on that, and he stood down.
Cosmocat (13,528 posts) 4. A pubic hair AND it isn't over ...Look, some of these scumbags are going to feel some SERIOUS pain over this, but 99.9% of the "conservatives" in this country aren't, and most likely NONE of the elected or governmental officials that were part of it. Given their immediate, brazen work to white wash it, it is clear they view this as a win, one in which they will learn from and build on in the near future.They didn't pull off an immediate coup that kept 45 in office. But, it is not binary, it absolutely has advanced their ongoing, relentless drive to turn the US into a chrisofascist Idiocracy.
kentuck (101,569 posts) 8. The mob had guns...They just didn't feel the need to brandish them.
Response to BlueStater (Reply #5)Sun May 16, 2021, 10:26 AMStar Member kentuck (101,569 posts) 8. The mob had guns...They just didn't feel the need to brandish them.
Response to BlueStater (Reply #9)Sun May 16, 2021, 10:48 AMhaele (10,055 posts) 14. Some of those fat, stupid rednecks seemed extremely organized.And not so fat and stupid. Some of them- perhaps about 30 to 50- acted like they had trained and were on an operation. The rednecks and Q-freaks just slowed them down enough that the Capitol Police and Secret Service members were able to keep the insurrectionists from harming any lawmakers.
The so-called "coup" was so close to succeeding that an understaffed group of police was able to stop it, with the only intentional killing (as far as anyone can prove) being by security.
https://amgreatness.com/2021/05/16/video-shows-u-s-capitol-police-gave-protesters-ok-to-enter/New video of the "insurrection", including the buffalo shaman nutter, talking to the Capitol Police inside the Congress building. Article claims there is more footage that hasn't been released yet. What say you to that, lurkers? I say it adds to the unholy cluster of actual information, false information, propaganda and assumptions that are very intentionally being used to keep people from knowing the whole story of 1/6 or to get them too frustrated digging through to figure out what goes into each of those categories.