The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: JohnnyReb on April 10, 2014, 12:39:09 PM
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Read and watch the video......it's getting serious out there.
http://michellemalkin.com/2014/04/10/protest-at-bundy-ranch-grows-brace-for-massive-fed-over-reaction/
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..."It’s a powder keg situation, and fairly recent history shows that when there’s a powder keg, the government’s default solution is to flick lit matches at it"...
:agree: :werd: :yeahthat: :thatsright:
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I think it was Hannity who asked him last night if he wasn't afraid this could turn into another Ruby Ridge situation.
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I just can't help thinking of a hapless shoe salesman married to a redhead.
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What do you bet that every one of these assholes (the trouble makers in the story) is paid with public funds?
Meet the "bio diversity" Nazis.
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/about/staff/index.html
Pretty decent pay scale too:
Communications Associate – Population and Sustainability Program
Starting salary $40,000 - $50,000. The Center offers an excellent benefits package, including employer-paid medical, dental, vision, disability and life insurance and a 403(b) retirement savings plan with employer match.
:thatsright:
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What do you bet that every one of these assholes (the trouble makers in the story) is paid with public funds?
Meet the "bio diversity" Nazis.
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/about/staff/index.html
Pretty decent pay scale too:
:thatsright:
I do not know about the male officers but from what I see they have some very well trained K9's.
Why does the name Selma keep going through my head, was it the TV news in the 60's that makes me think of Alabama ?
New London Conn. or Florida where the government was unsuccessful in moving a sub division to build a private golf course. [ Too many wealthy retired living there with big connections to politicians I guess ]
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I'm betting that it will be Ruby Ridge or Waco al over again and not one person will have to answer for it AGAIN. The White House would just pardon them if it even result in a trial and guilty verdicts.
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What do you bet that every one of these assholes (the trouble makers in the story) is paid with public funds?
Meet the "bio diversity" Nazis.
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/about/staff/index.html
Pretty decent pay scale too:
:thatsright:
I went down the list and read every damn one of them. I saw the problem right off the bat....over half of them are damn lawyers so therefore not a speck of commonsense in the crowd. No knowledge about anything thing but law and trying to use the law to show their authority.
Let them pick up a gun and go take Mr. Bundy's cows....and I want a ticket for that at any price.
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I'm betting that it will be Ruby Ridge or Waco al over again and not one person will have to answer for it AGAIN. The White House would just pardon them if it even result in a trial and guilty verdicts.
The way that crowd is building, I'd say less like Waco or Ruby Ridge, more like Lexington or Concord; Breed's Hill at worst.
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The way that crowd is building, I'd say less like Waco or Ruby Ridge, more like Lexington or Concord; Breed's Hill at worst.
I wonder if the National Guard will respond. The governor is backing Bandy so far.
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What do you bet that every one of these assholes (the trouble makers in the story) is paid with public funds?
Meet the "bio diversity" Nazis.
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/about/staff/index.html
Pretty decent pay scale too:
:thatsright:
I am not suggesting of using any government power, but many of these environmental and animal rights groups should be investigated and audited by the IRS. Many of them have history of terrorism.
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The 58 year old woman who got knocked down by Fed thugs was also a cancer survivor. And the Feds tased the man who rushed in to help her three times!
Here's video of the scene when that happened. You can hear the tasers being activated.
http://youtu.be/LhJ6H9vlEDA
The concern that the cattle were being pulled off calves and/or killed is a real possibility. About the best source for info on this whole unbelievable mess is a Facebook page entitled "We Support Cliven Bundy."
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He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
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I known this is from Alex Jones as it was linked at Drudge Report. I am not an Alex Jones fan as I think he is a kook. :mental:
Breaking: Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch
http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/
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I known this is from Alex Jones as it was linked at Drudge Report. I am not an Alex Jones fan as I think he is a kook. :mental:
Breaking: Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch
http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/
Wouldn't surprise me one bit. He's been silent on the issue and has a history of land dealings.
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I had to look up this Alex Jones dude since he was mentioned in relation to the Bundys' situation. I agree, he is a kook.
But the situation out there and the reasons behind it are becoming 'darker.' I don't know if y'all consider Breibart to be a good news source, I don't believe any of them without triple checking in other places, but below is a link to an article connecting Reid's kid to a Chinese deal on the land.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/04/Harry-Reid-s-Son-Representing-Chinese-Solar-Panel-Plant-In-5-Billion-Nevada-Deal
Oh, remember the tortoises? The ones that have pretty much thrived in that area eating the bugs that live in the cow manure, and benefitting from the water improvements that the Bundy family has made for more than 100 years? Yeah, those tortoises. This is how well the Feds care for them:
http://now.motherearthnews.com/story/nature/next-story/30684174736e3878396474536f6b6b675a496e726d673d3d
There are many reports on the impending demise of the tortoises, but I chose one from Mother Earth views in deference to lurking DUmmies who think all ranchers are "fat cat 1%ers." Not that I really give a crap what those goobers think. But, I will tell you that when a rancher sees one of the tortoises, he or she usually stops and admires it. Often takes a picture, and if there are others nearby will definitely point it out so they, too, can admire it.
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Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch
The Bureau of Land Management, whose director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations.
Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled “Cattle Trespass Impacts†directly states that Bundy’s cattle “impacts†solar development, more specifically the construction of “utility-scale solar power generation facilities†on “public lands.â€
“Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,†the document states.
Infowars (http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/)
Yeah.
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Infowars (http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/)
Yeah.
Amazingly the water, from Lake Mead, in this case, is just a bonus.
Out here, we knew how to fight for water. It was always about water.
We need to get up to speed. Fricking have to guess on a global level "who wants what." And while we enjoy our lifestyle, and are proud of what we produce, we have to realize there are short-sighted people who only want what benefits them immediately. We must become more aggressive.
I don't know the Bundy's. I suspect if I did, I'd think he was a bit of a jerk. But, able to separate "principles from personalities" I support them completely. The BLM is playing third grade playground politics.
What was good and appreciated until 1993 still works for all the livestock and wildlife that are impacted. So what that the BLM changes the rules like a little kid. You don't' do that out here. What you said still goes. If enough changes, then you get with the guy(s) involved and come to an agreement.
That used to be how we did things.
Apparently not anymore. We all expect the BLM thugs at our doors at any moment.
And hardly anybody gives a crap. We're just hicks.
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THE FEDS BLINK: BLM ENDS ROUNDUP OF BUNDY CATTLE IN NEVADA -
http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_35238.php#sthash.dU2mFKzI.dpuf
The I-Team has learned the deal to end the gather was brokered by Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie. According to sources, the BLM wants to proceed with the sale of the cattle already gathered during the roundup but is reportedly willing to share the revenue from the sale with Bundy. Sheriff Gillespie has been negotiating with Bundy behind the scenes for months reached a tentative agreement Friday night, though Bundy insisted the sheriff come to his ranch to finalize the arrangement face-to-face -
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Seems to be over for now. We'll see how the dollars and cents come out on this deal.
http://www.mynews3.com/default.aspx
Here is a video of a county commissioner from Utah. Summarizes why this issue was important to many of us out here.
http://youtu.be/sQW6y9tgSo4
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Here is a clear and as concise as possible explanation about the deal:
Written By Kena Lytle Gloeckner
There have been a lot of people criticizing Clive Bundy because he did not pay his grazing fees for 20 years. The public is also probably wondering why so many other cowboys are supporting Mr. Bundy even though they paid their fees and Clive did not. What you people probably do not realize is that on every rancher's grazing permit it says the following: "You are authorized to make grazing use of the lands, under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management and covered by this grazing permit, upon your acceptance of the terms and conditions of this grazing permit and payment of grazing fees when due." The "mandatory" terms and conditions go on to list the allotment, the number and kind of livestock to be grazed, when the permit begins and ends, the number of active or suspended AUMs (animal units per month), etc. The terms and conditions also list specific requirements such as where salt or mineral supplements can be located, maximum allowable use of forage levels (40% of annual growth), etc., and include a lot more stringent policies that must be adhered to. Every rancher must sign this "contract" agreeing to abide by the TERMS AND CONDITIONS before he or she can make payment.
In the early 90s, the BLM went on a frenzy and drastically cut almost every rancher's permit because of this desert tortoise issue, even though all of us ranchers knew that cow and desert tortoise had co-existed for a hundred+ years. As an example, a family friend had his permit cut by 90%. For those of you who are non ranchers, that would be equated to getting your paycheck cut 90%. In 1976 there were approximately 52 ranching permittees in this area of Nevada. Presently, there are 3. Most of these people lost their livelihoods because of the actions of the BLM. Clive Bundy was one of these people who received extremely unfair and unreasonable TERMS AND CONDITIONS. Keep in mind that Mr. Bundy was required to sign this contract before he was allowed to pay. Had Clive signed on the dotted line, he would have, in essence, signed his very livelihood away. And so Mr. Bundy took a stand, not only for himself, but for all of us. He refused to be destroyed by a tyrannical federal entity and to have his American liberties and freedoms taken away. Also keep in mind that all ranchers financially paid dearly for the forage rights those permits allow - - not rights to the land, but rights to use the forage that grows on that land.
Many of these AUMS are water based, meaning that the rancher also has a vested right (state owned, not federal) to the waters that adjoin the lands and allow the livestock to drink. These water rights were also purchased at a great price. If a rancher cannot show beneficial use of the water (he must have the appropriate number of livestock that drinks and uses that water), then he loses that water right. Usually water rights and forage rights go hand in hand. Contrary to what the BLM is telling you, they NEVER compensate a rancher for the AUMs they take away. Most times, they tell ranchers that their AUMS are "suspended," but not removed. Unfortunately, my family has thousands of "suspended" AUMs that will probably never be returned. And so, even though these ranchers throughout the course of a hundred years invested thousands(and perhaps millions) of dollars and sacrificed along the way to obtain these rights through purchase from others, at a whim the government can take everything away with the stroke of a pen.
This is the very thing that Clive Bundy singlehandedly took a stand against. Thank you, Clive, from a rancher who considers you a hero.
Written By Kena Lytle Gloeckner
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My blood pressure shoots up every time I read this thread. I have had to deal with the arrogant assholes from the federal government. Usually the really arrogant assholes stay hidden in an office far away and send flunkies out to do the dirty work. So, if it were to come down to shooting someone, don't shoot the one standing in front of you but shoot the coward hiding in that far away office.
It's those hidden cowards that want to restrict your right to own a gun. They know they've pushed people just about as far as they can push them with papers and laws.....to push farther they need to do it at the point of a gun and they don't want you to have one to push back with.
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My blood pressure shoots up every time I read this thread. I have had to deal with the arrogant assholes from the federal government. Usually the really arrogant assholes stay hidden in an office far away and send flunkies out to do the dirty work. So, if it were to come down to shooting someone, don't shoot the one standing in front of you but shoot the coward hiding in that far away office.
It's those hidden cowards that want to restrict your right to own a gun. They know they've pushed people just about as far as they can push them with papers and laws.....to push farther they need to do it at the point of a gun and they don't want you to have one to push back with.
I can't help but wonder how this would have gone if there weren't a few hundred people hanging around. More than a few probably armed.
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I can't help but wonder how this would have gone if there weren't a few hundred people hanging around. More than a few probably armed.
They were out manned and probably out gunned and they knew it so they left. They will be back. Next time with more people, arms and probably some type APC.
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They were out manned and probably out gunned and they knew it so they left. They will be back. Next time with more people, arms and probably some type APC.
I bet a lot of the local law enforcement weren't too thrilled with what the Feds were doing.
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I bet a lot of the local law enforcement weren't too thrilled with what the Feds were doing.
The sheriff just as well move away. If he wasn't saying stupid stuff, he was acting like a timid dog.
And the governor wasn't much better. I think he learned leadership with Obama. Released some statements being deeply disappointed in the BLM, and such.
Either one of them could have stopped this before it started.
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Mr. Bundy's brother, Steven, addressed the supporters at the ranch. In my opinion, he makes some good points. Beyond cows and the BLM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&list=UUhOYk2wWjcGx9mHn-zEbmlQ&v=5J8DQ9gVRN8
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I haven't been following this story, but I am sure, I don't understand what is happening...
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I haven't been following this story, but I am sure, I don't understand what is happening...
Lately it's starting to look like it's about corrupt libs all the way up to the Senate majority leader.
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Lately it's starting to look like it's about corrupt libs all the way up to the Senate majority leader.
Which is Harry Reid, correct?
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I haven't been following this story, but I am sure, I don't understand what is happening...
in a nutshell, our government i s more interested in harassing and controlling U.S. citizens than they are in harassing and controlling illegal aliens.
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in a nutshell, our government i s more interested in harassing U.S. citizens than they are in harassing illegal aliens.
Yes, they won't put helicopters, dogs and snipers on the border, but they will on a Nevada rancher.
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Shouldn't Bundy have to pay his fee like everyone else? The federal government owns that land. Did Bundy pay his fees when Reagan implemented the fee paying program by executive order?
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Shouldn't Bundy have to pay his fee like everyone else? The federal government owns that land. Did Bundy pay his fees when Reagan implemented the fee paying program by executive order?
Its not about fees, stupid.
The govt declared the land a desert tortoise sanctuary and put 90+ other ranchers out of business. This despite the fact that the tortoise coexisted just fine with cattle for 100+ years.
The real reason this is coming to a head is Harry Reid made a deal to sell Bundy's land to a Chines energy firm and he doesn't want to pay for the land himself. Democrat corruption at its finest.
Bitchslap given for parroting the govt line and not reading on your own. troll.
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I'm betting the govt is only backing down until the armed resistance goes away, then they will be back and will act before patriots can react.
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Shouldn't Bundy have to pay his fee like everyone else? The federal government owns that land. Did Bundy pay his fees when Reagan implemented the fee paying program by executive order?
The Feds don't own that land. The BLM only manages some lands and Bundy was in complete compliance with the conditions and requirements of his lease. He owned the water, was required to make certain improvements related to water (which he exceeded), and had a grazing lease with NV agencies. He had made improvements with his own money. He sent fees to the state and county agencies that DO own the land.
Most... No, too many people think when they or someone else is on what is called BLM land, they are on federal land. Never true. Never.
BTW, Mr. Bundy won his first case in federal court years ago.
And furthermore - the Pope could have said "Pay fees to the BLM" and it wouldn't have been right and Mr. Bundy wouldn't have done it.
BSed for thinking name dropping changes wrong into right.
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The Feds don't own that land. The BLM only manages some lands and Bundy was in complete compliance with the conditions and requirements of his lease. He owned the water, was required to make certain improvements related to water (which he exceeded), and had a grazing lease with NV agencies. He had made improvements with his own money. He sent fees to the state and county agencies that DO own the land.
Most... No, too many people think when they or someone else is on what is called BLM land, they are on federal land. Never true. Never.
BTW, Mr. Bundy won his first case in federal court years ago.
And furthermore - the Pope could have said "Pay fees to the BLM" and it wouldn't have been right and Mr. Bundy wouldn't have done it.
BSed for thinking name dropping changes wrong into right.
Why did Bundy pay the fees until 1993. Did the Feds own the land then?
Does Nevada's state government claim to own that land?
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Why did Bundy pay the fees until 1993. Did the Feds own the land then?
Does Nevada's state government claim to own that land?
Mr. Bundy paid his fees to county/state agencies. In 1993, BLM changed the rules, reduced his allotment, and wanted fees paid to them. That wasn't the deal the Bundy family had. He continued to send his fees as he always had. The BLM didn't receive them, because according to the agreement, the BLM was not owed them.
Yes, Nevada state and the county does own the land.
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The Feds don't own that land. The BLM only manages some lands and Bundy was in complete compliance with the conditions and requirements of his lease. He owned the water, was required to make certain improvements related to water (which he exceeded), and had a grazing lease with NV agencies. He had made improvements with his own money. He sent fees to the state and county agencies that DO own the land.
Most... No, too many people think when they or someone else is on what is called BLM land, they are on federal land. Never true. Never.
BTW, Mr. Bundy won his first case in federal court years ago.
And furthermore - the Pope could have said "Pay fees to the BLM" and it wouldn't have been right and Mr. Bundy wouldn't have done it.
BSed for thinking name dropping changes wrong into right.
Clark county and the state of Nevada disagrees with you on that one.
http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/Depts/comprehensive_planning/advanced_planning/Pages/FederalLands.aspx
That's the official Clark County website.
"The Federal Lands Program influences the quality of life in Clark County by monitoring and coordinating activities on federal land that impact the environment, urban development or the economy.
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Clark county and the state of Nevada disagrees with you on that one.
http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/Depts/comprehensive_planning/advanced_planning/Pages/FederalLands.aspx
That's the official Clark County website.
"The Federal Lands Program influences the quality of life in Clark County by monitoring and coordinating activities on federal land that impact the environment, urban development or the economy.
Once the BLM is given control of land, regardless of who owns the land, it is considered "BLM land." Therein lies a large part of the problem. The BLM's management or mismanagement of public lands.
A lot of people made deals with other agencies and don't recognize the BLM because too many of their practices are based on politics rather than science.
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From the BLM site:
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/Communications_Directorate/general_publications/general.Par.75750.File.dat/TextBLMbro.pdf
They manage. And:
http://www.blm.gov/or/faq/
They only manage.
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Once the BLM is given control of land, regardless of who owns the land, it is considered "BLM land." Therein lies a large part of the problem. The BLM's management or mismanagement of public lands.
A lot of people made deals with other agencies and don't recognize the BLM because too many of their practices are based on politics rather than science.
Well the thing is, Bundy is saying the state of Nevada owns that land, and Nevada is saying "no actually we don't". Nevada fully recognizes that 90% of Clark county is Federal land.
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From the BLM site:
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/Communications_Directorate/general_publications/general.Par.75750.File.dat/TextBLMbro.pdf
They manage. And:
http://www.blm.gov/or/faq/
They only manage.
Anyone know why the feds own 87% of Nevada in the first place?
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From the BLM site:
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/Communications_Directorate/general_publications/general.Par.75750.File.dat/TextBLMbro.pdf
They manage. And:
http://www.blm.gov/or/faq/
They only manage.
Yeah, they manage FEDERAL LAND.
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Which is Harry Reid, correct?
Correct a mundo. And his son Rorey.
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Yeah, they manage FEDERAL LAND.
Another bitch slap for being an Administration schill. You are such a racist.
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There are so many elements to this Bundy thing that need explained.
What really upsets me the most is the Feds ownership of state land.
Why does the government own so much land in the West? Where in the constitution does it allow for this?
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according to harry reid, it's not over
Reid tells News4's Samantha Boatman his take on the so-called cattle battle in southern Las Vegas. "Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over," Reid said (http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story/Sen-Reid-on-Cattle-Battle-Its-not-over/nT5weKnqFkezV14I5GhESg.cspx)
Is he referring to the Ranchers in Nevada or king barry and his law breaking A.G. eric "my people" holder when he says we can't have American people violate the law and just walk away from it.
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Don't get between Harry Reid and a dollar.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the Chinese solar farm that's being installed next to the Bundy ranch.
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Shouldn't Bundy have to pay his fee like everyone else?
Why not read the words of the man himself?
In His Own Words: Here’s Why the Nevada Rancher Refuses to Recognize Federal Authority
Cliven Bundy, the last remaining rancher in Clark County, Nev., stands at the center of what has become a national controversy over the private use of federal land. He is focused on one big issue, he said in a radio interview with Glenn Beck on Monday: He doesn’t believe the land belongs to the federal government.
“I think this is very clarifying to people,†Beck said. “Your stance is, ‘I do not recognize these lands to be federal … I am staking out my claim that the United States government does not have any jurisdiction, and any rights to the land that [I am] now grazing on.’â€
“That’s right,†Bundy said. “It’s Nevada land.â€
Bundy said he has “no contract with the United States government,†and the federal government has “no jurisdiction or authority†on his grazing rights, water rights, access rights, ranch improvement rights or anything else that “belongs to ‘we the people’ of Clark County.â€
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/14/in-his-own-words-heres-why-the-nevada-rancher-refuses-to-recognize-federal-authority/
The federal government owns that land.
The Federal Government doesn't own a damn thing, DUmmie, "we, the people" own it.
Did Bundy pay his fees when Reagan implemented the fee paying program by executive order?
Oh, look... You managed to find a way to throw President Reagan in our faces.... Bless your little pea pickin' heart!
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This is interesting. Bundy has his own website.
From 2012
Monday, May 7, 2012
Looks to me like there has been a systematic effort to destroy cattle ranching in the West.
“NEW GOLD BUTTE†WILD FIRE
South of Mesquite, Nevada
on April 26,2012
I see you are burning FEED once again, the renewable resource that should be used for mankind and a healthy habitat for lots of species of wildlife. Now you as (BLM) land managers are burning this land one more time, the third time since cattle grazing was abandoned off the range in the 1990's.
BLM's superb land management has managed to burn every living creature out of house and home three times in just over a decade, killing every insect, reptile, mammal, and bird nest. Those critters that escape the terrible heat and smoke, down a burrow hole, what do they have to come up for? Only a black chard earth, no feed, no protection, no chance for new growth until next spring. It would have been better to burn than face the dread of starvation.
http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2012/05/newgold-butte-wild-fire-southof.html
I've seen what the insanity of the environmentalists have done to California's farmers. And now the alternative energy people are ruining our deserts. :mad:
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Shouldn't Bundy have to pay his fee like everyone else? The federal government owns that land. Did Bundy pay his fees when Reagan implemented the fee paying program by executive order?
Yes. Yes he did pay those fees. Until 1993.
Now if you can generate a spark in those synapses of yours, why don't you investigate for yourself why he paid them up until 1993, and why he stopped after 1993.
Bitchslap for being a troll.
CMD
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Guess what?
Reid Butt
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lJAVQKArlb4/UN3u7cTSCkI/AAAAAAAAATI/rfv5LLAKAcw/s1600/speedos.jpg)
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Another bitch slap for being an Administration schill. You are such a racist.
Even your own buddies in this post acknowledge the Feds own the majority of Nevada? It's just a fact? Nevada itself openly admits it's federal land. The only person saying the Feds don't own that land is the person who has 300k in back grazing fees at stake lol.
Lol you guys pretend to bitchslap people over the internet, that's kinda cool.
*Figure four leg lock for typing like a ten year old.
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Lol you guys pretend to bitchslap people over the internet, that's kinda cool.
Bitchslap because you like it. -37 now. Proof thou art a liberal troll.
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Bitchslap because you like it. -37 now. Proof thou art a liberal troll.
So are the other people in this thread who are asking why the Feds own the vast majority of Nevada trolls too?
I assume you now realize that BLM manages federally owned land and are just doubling down on the troll stuff cause you don't have any answers.
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Many people realize that the Fed government is limited on what they can own. And they likewise realize the Federal government has exceeded those limitations. They further recognize that federal control of land is never for the common good of citizens. Finally, they object.
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There are so many elements to this Bundy thing that need explained.
What really upsets me the most is the Feds ownership of state land.
Why does the government own so much land in the West? Where in the constitution does it allow for this?
Dori,
The US Government has the constitutional authority to acquire, dispose of, and manage land. Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 of the US Constitution (usually called "the Property Clause") says, "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States." (emphasis added).
The constitutional authority to dispose of and manage land includes the authority to issue leases and permits for use, and to charge fees for those leases or permits.
Specific to this discussion, the US Congress and the Nevada Territory agreed, as a condition of statehood, that the Territory would surrender “all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States.†(Nevada Enabling Act, 1864)
Here's a 2007 Congressional Research Service paper (http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/RL34267_12032007.pdf) on the subject of Federal land ownership, which explains it thoroughly.
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I think I read somewhere that the problem started when BLM wanted to change the terms of his lease agreement. He complied with all their mandates, request and requirements until they wanted to reduce his herd to about 10% what he had been running.....in effect, starving him out of business.
....and Harry Reid would be scum if he hadn't already stolen the swamp water.
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Here's a 2007 Congressional Research Service paper (http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/RL34267_12032007.pdf) on the subject of Federal land ownership, which explains it thoroughly.
Thanks :-)
I was reading where some states fought the Feds to get their land back. The Western states need to do the same.
I can see the federal government owning some things, but it just seems to fly in the face of the state rights issue for the feds to hold the majority of a states land and resources.
Especially today, with our government becoming tyrannical.
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/16/feds-accused-leaving-trail-wreckage-after-nevada-ranch-standoff/
Feds accused of leaving trail of wreckage after Nevada ranch standoff
Jackboot thugs.
The federal agency that backed down over the weekend in a tense standoff with a Nevada rancher is being accused of leaving a trail of wreckage behind.
Fox News toured the damage -- allegedly caused by the Bureau of Land Management -- which included holes in water tanks and destroyed water lines and fences. According to family friends, the bureau's hired "cowboys" also killed two prize bulls.
"They had total control of this land for one week, and look at the destruction they did in one week," said Corey Houston, friend of rancher Cliven Bundy and his family. "So why would you trust somebody like that? And how does that show that they're a better steward?"
The BLM and other law enforcement officials backed down on Saturday in their effort to seize Bundy's cattle, after hundreds of protesters, some armed, arrived to show support for the Bundy family. In the end, BLM officials left the scene amid concerns about safety, and no shots were fired.
The dispute between the feds and the Bundy family has been going on for years; they say he owes more than $1.1 million in unpaid grazing fees -- and long ago revoked his grazing rights over concern for a federally protected tortoise. They sent officials to round up his livestock following a pair of federal court orders last year giving the U.S. government the authority to impound the cattle.
The feds, though, are being accused of taking the court orders way too far.
On a Friday night conference call, BLM officials told reporters that "illegal structures" on Bundy's ranch -- water tanks, water lines and corrals -- had to be removed to "restore" the land to its natural state and prevent the rancher from restarting his illegal cattle operation.
However, the court order used to justify the operation appears only to give the agency the authority to "seize and impound" Bundy's cattle.
"Nowhere in the court order that I saw does it say that they can destroy infrastructure, destroy corrals, tanks ... desert environment, shoot cattle," Houston said.
Bundy's friends say the BLM wranglers told them the bulls were shot because they were dangerous and could gore their horses. One bull was shot five times.
But Houston said the pen holding the bull wasn't even bent. "It's not like the bull was smashing this pen and trying tackle people or anything," he said. "The pen is sitting here. It hasn't moved. No damage whatsoever. Where was the danger with that bull?"
Plus he said BLM vehicles appear to have crushed a tortoise burrow near the damaged water tank. "How's that conservation?" he asked.
The BLM has not yet responded to a request for comment on these allegations.
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they say he owes more than $1.1 million in unpaid grazing fees
The bureau last week announced the area would be closed through May 12 while contractors conduct the roundup using helicopters, vehicles and temporary pens. Cannon said the agency paid the contractors $966,000.
http://www.thedalleschronicle.com/news/2014/apr/08/nevada-ranchers-son-freed-blm-collects-cattle/
So I wonder what this fiasco has cost taxpayers. This government makes no sense.
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On a Friday night conference call, BLM officials told reporters that "illegal structures" on Bundy's ranch -- water tanks, water lines and corrals -- had to be removed to "restore" the land to its natural state and prevent the rancher from restarting his illegal cattle operation.
The government is sure going out of their way for a few "illegal" structures and one "illegal" cattle operation.
Contrast that with how the government goes out of their way to accommodate and protect the millions of illegal aliens who have invaded this once sovereign Nation.
This government is out of control.
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The government is sure going out of their way for a few "illegal" structures and one "illegal" cattle operation.
Contrast that with how the government goes out of their way to accommodate and protect the millions of illegal aliens who have invaded this once sovereign Nation.
This government is out of control.
The government put water stations in the desert for the illegal aliens.....how 'bout we poke holes in them and rip out the plumbing.
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You know, I'm not sure where exactly I stand on Bundy's legal position, but the attitude of these BLM guys is just a hair away from brownshirts and black armbands. :mad:
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Thanks :-)
I was reading where some states fought the Feds to get their land back. The Western states need to do the same.
I can see the federal government owning some things, but it just seems to fly in the face of the state rights issue for the feds to hold the majority of a states land and resources.
Especially today, with our government becoming tyrannical.
I think we're already there.
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http://www.thedalleschronicle.com/news/2014/apr/08/nevada-ranchers-son-freed-blm-collects-cattle/
So I wonder what this fiasco has cost taxpayers. This government makes no sense.
That was just the contractors. How much more was spent?
Leave it to government to spend a hundred, to recover ten.
Unbelievable incompetency.
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Harry Reid Calls Cliven Bundy Supporters “Domestic Terroristsâ€
http://www.infowars.com/harry-reid-calls-cliven-bundy-supporters-domestic-terrorists/
Senator Harry Reid has escalated the war of words over the Cliven Bundy dispute, sensationally labeling the Nevada cattle rancher’s supporters “domestic terrorists†during an event in Las Vegas today.
During a ‘Hashtags & Headlines’ event at the Paris Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas, Reid referred to Bundy supporters as “Nothing more than domestic terrorists,†adding, “I repeat: what happened there was domestic terrorism.â€
Reid was referring to the stand off on Saturday in Bunkerville where Bundy supporters, some of whom were armed, forced Bureau of Land Management agents to back down and release around 380 head of cattle belonging to Bundy that had been seized over the course of the previous week.
So says the pederast. :mental: :bs:
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Harry Reid Calls Cliven Bundy Supporters “Domestic Terroristsâ€
http://www.infowars.com/harry-reid-calls-cliven-bundy-supporters-domestic-terrorists/
So says the pederast. :mental: :bs:
Greta called him the "Senate majority bully" and wondered how he kept his job.
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Well then, I guess I'm a domestic terrorist. Come and get me Harry Reid. I dare you.
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Well then, I guess I'm a domestic terrorist. Come and get me Harry Reid. I dare you.
Reid accused Bundy of not just paying his grazing fees, but also of not paying his taxes. Bundy said that was a lie.
Reid thinks he owns Nevada. I would like to see a poll on what Nevadans think of Reid.
Can you recall a U.S. Senator?
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(http://hostingd.hotchyx.com/adult-image-hosting-09/93501776.JPG)
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Not a constitutional scholar here, by any means, but I thought there were only two ways the Feds could own land.
Either for armories, government offices, and military bases, or if the property owner was compensated under the "Takings Act." Neither applies to the land the Bundy cows grazed on, from what I know. (Articles I and V, respectively)
Many now question whether the Fed agencies, such as the blm and forest service, can exist constitutionally.
I think people just put up with it until the Feds pushed too many, too far.
So, this is a good thing that needed to happen.
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Not a constitutional scholar here, by any means, but I thought there were only two ways the Feds could own land.
Either for armories, government offices, and military bases, or if the property owner was compensated under the "Takings Act." Neither applies to the land the Bundy cows grazed on, from what I know. (Articles I and V, respectively)
Many now question whether the Fed agencies, such as the blm and forest service, can exist constitutionally.
I think people just put up with it until the Feds pushed too many, too far.
So, this is a good thing that needed to happen.
Actually article IV of the constitution refers to this.
The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state.
So basically it's up to congress to make the rules on what the Feds can own.
Then Article III creates the federal court system to handle disputes of this nature,
"to controversies to which the United States shall be a party". Bundy used the courts and they decided the federal govt does in fact own the land.
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BTW, Mr. Bundy won his first case in federal court years ago.
I'll apologize if I'm wrong, but this is not true. Bundy has lost every federal court case on this matter.
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BS given for returning to schill for jack booted thuggery.
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BS given for returning to schill for jack booted thuggery.
Lol you were funnier when you tried to present an argument, but this is good too.
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Lol you were funnier when you tried to present an argument, but this is good too.
Why cast pearls before swine?
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Why cast pearls before swine?
Because there is no argument to make. Even the most right wing sources and most in this very thread acknowledge the federal govt owns that land and Bundy is legally in the wrong. That's why he had to represent himself, no lawyer would even take his case lol.
If you like and support his cause that's fine and understandable. If you think the government has gone overboard in it's methods to collect, I agree with you. To ignore basic facts that can easily be researched is just laughable.
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Precisely my point.
You are not here to argue, you are here to educate the conservatives. In short, you're a liberal troll.
Frankly, you seem to be disappointed that there was no Waco resolution here.
So Will, do you like pie?
(http://s27.postimg.org/sh0407nlf/pumpkin_pie.jpg)
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So Will, do you like pie?
Yes, he likes pie.
In his butt.
Ain't that right, DUmmy?
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Precisely my point.
You are not here to argue, you are here to educate the conservatives. In short, you're a liberal troll.
Frankly, you seem to be disappointed that there was no Waco resolution here.
So Will, do you like pie?
Why would I want a Waco situation? Ideally Bundy would have either accepted the new arrangements and found a new place to graze. If no other places were available, he could have sold the cattle and invested into another venture such as expanding his melon farm? Instead he wants the government to support him by allowing him to use their land for free.
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Yes, he likes pie.
In his butt.
Ain't that right, DUmmy?
That's the dumbest thing I've seen all week. Who doesn't like pie in their butt? Haven't you ever watched Justin Wilson? It's a cajun classic!
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Hmmm. Will seems quite the pervert. I applied the bacon-test to Will, and here's what I got.
Pic 1) How w conservative gets his bacon:
(http://s30.postimg.org/e6htgs9ht/b_acon_boobs.jpg)
Pic 2) Will's reaction to bacon...
(http://s29.postimg.org/yuklprl4n/justin_beiber_bacon_no_thank_id_prefer_a_delicio.jpg)
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I'll apologize if I'm wrong, but this is not true. Bundy has lost every federal court case on this matter.
And, I may be wrong about it having been a federal court. But, it was back when the blm used the desert tortoise as a way to reduce cattle allotments.
That isn't beneficial to the tortoise, since they benefit from the cows in a way (they eat bugs that thrive in the dung, and keeping the forage to a lower, not desecated, level helps the tortoise to travel), and the water developed by the ranchers also improves tortoise habitat.
Anyway, the ruling was in Bundy's favor, but the case did not cover such a large scope as the more recent ones.
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I don't get it. So conservatives would rather have a single piece of bacon and not be interested in the 5 hot girls? That doesn't even really make sense lol.
Cocks are ok for soup or dumplings but by the time you kill them, they can be too tough to just eat like you would normal chicken. Your milage may vary on that tho.
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it's trying to be clever. Too bad. Fail.
Here is something Will has no idea about:
(http://s30.postimg.org/jf8pkajgx/perfect_woman.jpg)
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Do you know how to get vegan DUmmies to eat bacon?
Tell 'em it tastes like cock.
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it's trying to be clever. Too bad. Fail.
Here is something Will has no idea about:
(http://s30.postimg.org/jf8pkajgx/perfect_woman.jpg)
:cheersmate: :cheersmate: :cheersmate:
You win the Internet for the day. You can pick up the keys at the front desk.
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it's trying to be clever. Too bad. Fail.
Here is something Will has no idea about:
Enjoying cartoon boobs? Yeah you got me, again. I'm a "cartoon ass man" myself.
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typical lib. Has no idea what is happening.
(http://s27.postimg.org/xtvugydkj/kittens.jpg)
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I don't get it. So conservatives would rather have a single piece of bacon and not be interested in the 5 hot girls? That doesn't even really make sense lol.
Proving that you are on the wrong side of nature, which is the natural habitat of the DUmmy.
Conservative men (and not just conservative men, but every man who didn't vote for King Hussein) go for the women and the bacon. Even Jewish men, who may not eat the bacon, but are excited by it nonetheless.
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typical lib. Has no idea what is happening.
Sure I know what's happening! When the topic at hand is looked at objectively, you have no resort but to communicate in bacon and little kitty cat memes! :rofl:
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Proving that you are on the wrong side of nature, which is the natural habitat of the DUmmy.
Conservative men (and not just conservative men, but every man who didn't vote for King Hussein) go for the women and the bacon. Even Jewish men, who may not eat the bacon, but are excited by it nonetheless.
Damn you got me! Was this the test they used to give when joining the army before "don't ask, don't tell"?
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Sure I know what's happening! When the topic at hand is looked at objectively, you have no resort but to communicate in bacon and little kitty cat memes! :rofl:
Wrong! Not a clue.
(http://s1.postimg.org/ohdctnyq7/baconandbeer.jpg)
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Damn you got me! Was this the test they used to give when joining the army before "don't ask, don't tell"?
The chap that said "there's no such thing as a dumb question" never met wellcross.
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From the BLM and cows in the wilderness to Bacon, Boobs and Beer.....now we're talking.
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From the BLM and cows in the wilderness to Bacon, Boobs and Beer.....now we're talking.
All it takes is one liberal troll.
(http://s28.postimg.org/4xhzj357h/boobs_and_bacon.jpg)
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:cheersmate: :cheersmate: :cheersmate:
You win the Internet for the day. You can pick up the keys at the front desk.
If its from Big Dog, it is official. Will Cross lost and I won.
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Damn you got me! Was this the test they used to give when joining the army before "don't ask, don't tell"?
No, back in my day, it was assumed that guys who preferred to suck cock didn't want to join the Army. That's what the Navy was for!
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
In 35 years, homosex went from prohibited to mandatory.
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Sure I know what's happening! When the topic at hand is looked at objectively, you have no resort but to communicate in bacon and little kitty cat memes! :rofl:
Nope.
I won't speak for anyone else, but what's really happening is that I don't take you seriously because you're a proglodyte. Your only value to me is entertainment value.
In the real world, I divorced myself from all leftist fascists, collectivists, and redistributionists. Your kameraden in the real world offer me nothing, and get nothing from me.
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All it takes is one liberal troll.
(http://s28.postimg.org/4xhzj357h/boobs_and_bacon.jpg)
I love America!
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Nope.
I won't speak for anyone else, but what's really happening is that I don't take you seriously because you're a proglodyte. Your only value to me is entertainment value.
In the real world, I divorced myself from all leftist fascists, collectivists, and redistributionists. Your kameraden in the real world offer me nothing, and get nothing from me.
I'm a collectivist?
I want Bundy to pay to use the land, since he does not own it. He has no deed to it and has never paid property tax on it. I would have him invest money in the use of the land, and through his hard work, turn a profit.
Bundy wants free use of land that is collectively owned by the taxpayers, through the federal govt.
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I'm a collectivist?
I want Bundy to pay to use the land, since he does not own it. He has no deed to it and has never paid property tax on it. I would have him invest money in the use of the land, and through his hard work, turn a profit.
Bundy wants free use of land that is collectively owned by the taxpayers, through the federal govt.
No he doesn't.
He does want to deal with the state of NV who never sold the land. He wants contracts to be adhered to. He wants the other party in a contract to do their part, as he has done his. He wants actual science to influence land policies, not cronyism.
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I'm a collectivist?
I want Bundy to pay to use the land, since he does not own it. He has no deed to it and has never paid property tax on it. I would have him invest money in the use of the land, and through his hard work, turn a profit.
Bundy wants free use of land that is collectively owned by the taxpayers, through the federal govt.
Yes, you are a collectivist. Referring to land "collectively owned by the taxpayer, through the federal gov't" is a tell.
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No he doesn't.
He does want to deal with the state of NV who never sold the land. He wants contracts to be adhered to. He wants the other party in a contract to do their part, as he has done his. He wants actual science to influence land policies, not cronyism.
Why did he pay the blm before they changed his allowance? Wasn't it just as unjust back then, when it was a sweet deal for him? Didn't the govt not own the land then either?
Isn't it strange how his revelation that the govt doesn't own that land didn't occur until it became profitable for him to ignore the law?
Why would he deal with the state of Nevada. The state doesn't even claim to own the land. That's like me insisting on paying my brother my mortgage payment because I like him more than the bank.
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Why would he deal with the state of Nevada. The state doesn't even claim to own the land.
Your right the state of Nevada, under current law, cannot take payment for grazing rights.
I think this would be the correct resolution to this current stand off.
Lawmakers from Western states said Friday that the time has come for them to take control of federal lands within their borders and suggested the standoff this month between a Nevada rancher and the federal government was a problem waiting to happen.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/19/western-lawmakers-strategize-on-taking-control-federal-lands/?intcmp=latestnews
I agree with Bundy, the federal government can kiss my a**.
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Why did he pay the blm before they changed his allowance? Wasn't it just as unjust back then, when it was a sweet deal for him? Didn't the govt not own the land then either?
Isn't it strange how his revelation that the govt doesn't own that land didn't occur until it became profitable for him to ignore the law?
Why would he deal with the state of Nevada. The state doesn't even claim to own the land. That's like me insisting on paying my brother my mortgage payment because I like him more than the bank.
Back when the blm first took over, they did follow the contract. And, it's not really profitable for him to not pay. It'd be easier to pay.
Part of the issue he, and others, has with this whole mess is that NV didn't follow the law when letting the blm and feds in.
There is a group of attorneys meeting in SLC, UT digging through law and cases looking at all this. Not just in the west. It affects land and people in other states, too.
This has been going on for a really long time. Many people laid down and let the blm, or epa, or forest service put them out of business or make them leave areas where they had lived for generations.
This guy didn't. It needs to get sorted out.
I suspect the resolution will fall in the middle, with dashes of cronyism, greed, abuse of federal power, re-interpretation of law.
Oh, and probably the creation of a new federal agency, since that seems to too often happen!
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A lot of parallels to the Kelo case.
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A link to a clearer summary of why the land the blm says is fed, is not.
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/19/do-the-feds-really-own-the-land-in-nevada-nope/
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Why would I want a Waco situation? Ideally Bundy would have either accepted the new arrangements and found a new place to graze. If no other places were available, he could have sold the cattle and invested into another venture such as expanding his melon farm? Instead he wants the government to support him by allowing him to use their land for free.
No that's not true. There was never going to be a new suitable place for Bundy to graze. The intent by the Feds was to drive Bundy OUT of the ranching business al together. Just like they'd done to every other rancher in the state.
Which you seem to have no problem with.
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No he doesn't.
He does want to deal with the state of NV who never sold the land. He wants contracts to be adhered to. He wants the other party in a contract to do their part, as he has done his. He wants actual science to influence land policies, not cronyism.
^^^ This!
QFT
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I'm a collectivist?
I want Bundy to pay to use the land, since he does not own it. He has no deed to it and has never paid property tax on it. I would have him invest money in the use of the land, and through his hard work, turn a profit.
Bundy wants free use of land that is collectively owned by the taxpayers, through the federal govt.
So explain to me how a government agency, founded in 1946, "owns" nearly 90 percent of the land of a state that was formed in 1864.
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So explain to me how a government agency, founded in 1946, "owns" nearly 90 percent of the land of a state that was formed in 1864.
This should be good. But I'm predicting not.