The Conservative Cave
Interests => Living Off of the Grid & Survivalism => Topic started by: KittenClaws on May 30, 2010, 08:38:31 PM
-
Going off the grid is dropping out. You can't have a job, maybe you think you can, under the table..but that involves other people's compliance, going off the grid involves no one else.
Going off the grid is self-sufficiency. You no longer exist. There is no phone, no TV, no modern conveinance. The land on which you live can not be tied to you.
It's not about MRE's and motor homes, it's off the grid.
Survivalists are one thing, off the grid, quite another.
I'd be interested in starting a discussion about this: What would it take to truly go "Off the Grid" ?
-
gypsies in an RV?
-
gypsies in an RV?
An RV would be handy, but the gypsies would be a disturbance.
-
Tempting, but no.
-
An RV would be handy, but the gypsies would be a disturbance.
There's always sheep. (http://www.3news.co.nz/Police-find-14-sheep-crammed-into-car/tabid/423/articleID/158400/Default.aspx)
-
I could not do it at the present time.
Would getting filthy rich and building a starship and settling on another planet be "off the grid"??
:p
-
I could not do it at the present time.
Would getting filthy rich and building a starship and settling on another planet be "off the grid"??
:p
In a future, non-existant society it would be off the grid!
But I'm asking a real question here in keeping with the forum topic "living off the grid and survivalism".
-
Tempting, but no.
An honest answer.
-
Unfortunately, I think that it would be very difficult in today's world. The government has too much control over things and that includes the forest land. If I were able to take my supplies with me, I could survive for quite a while. There would be a time that I would have to surface, if even only for a little while. I have the tools and the knowledge, but supplies DO run out eventually, that includes bullets, arrows and the like.
-
There was an interesting documentary type program on the History channel about those "left behind" after a nuclear war or disease wiped out civilization as we knew it. It was called "After Armageddon" and it was about human nature and the actions of man in survival situations.
It followed a family, the father was a doctor, as they tried to survive "off the grid". After a few weeks hunkered down in their house and living off their reserve, they had to leave the urban areas for the countryside...on foot. Their journey was interesing.
-
After an extended power outage, I pondered the same issue. It would be essential to have a source of clean water. Unless you have a hand pump, a source of water may present a problem for most. Having spent a lot of time in the back country, food just does jump into your mouth and is not as prevalent as imagined. I pity anyone that wears contacts or depends upon RX medications.
However our forefathers lived off the grid. It takes a lot of effort to cut firewood and to grow your own food. There are many long forgotten skills related to growing and preserving food, let alone making clothing and fashioning rudimentary tools. If a major calamity ever struck our power grid there would be tons of helpless souls out there. A social network would still be essential.
-
A social network would still be essential.
Yes, basically, small towns will come together and function like a country. They will have sheriffs or law enforcement officers in charge of security...and they will guard the basics, like food and water. They will keep intruders out. Eventually most small towns will start trading supplies with eachother, they will develop their own currency. People will grow food, grains, and live off the land. It will return to more basic, simple life.
-
I think this term means different things to different people, you are kind of one of the far ends of the scale. For instance, most people 'off the grid' still have bank accounts and connections of some sort to the mainstream world, no matter how infrequently used, for instance the yearly payment of property taxes, the occasional need to obtain a part or materials to make a part. You're talking the 'Dig a hole and pull it in after you' version, which is not entirely possible at the 100% level as long as there is a government functioning.
There are, however, homesteaders capable of continuing much as they are now if there should come a point where there isn't a functioning government in control and collecting taxes or enforcing regulations for some extended period. I am not there yet, and may never really be, but I am working to follow a path to be able to stay in place for extended periods of disruption instead of becoming an evacuee at the mercy of whatever the government chooses to provide.
-
Yes, basically, small towns will come together and function like a country. They will have sheriffs or law enforcement officers in charge of security...and they will guard the basics, like food and water. They will keep intruders out. Eventually most small towns will start trading supplies with eachother, they will develop their own currency. People will grow food, grains, and live off the land. It will return to more basic, simple life.
Hawk, I am not sure if we in today's society could survive, we only have to look back a hundred years to the Irish Potato Famine or the Russian Famine. Their skills could not save them.
You mention sowing and reaping grains, good idea but then what.? Do we know how to separate the grain from the shaft, where is a mill stone to grind the grain into flour.? Corn can be dried and pounded by hand into corn flour but that is a last ditch effort.
Who of us knows the good wild berry's from the poison ones, how many of us can milk a cow or goat.? Who can make a wooden plow share to hand pull through the ground to plant crops.?
Police to keep out strangers will be a must, who knows what diseases they may carry, back to ingrown society's that hate and fear anyone that is different from them.
On the other hand most society's could not have survived in the past without slaves to help them. The American Indian both North and South America had slaves or indentured servants. Spoils of war.
America at its early stages had Europe to trade with for blacksmiths to buy or trade for pre made anvils to make horse shoes, pots and pans nails and saw blades for lumber mills.
Doctors and dentists even if they take their tools with them will be unable to replace them when they wear out.
In the 1700's the very first milk cows came to this area from Europe.
We possibly could survive a year or 2 but when the toilet paper runs out we are shit out of luck.
-
I disagree Vesta...after an initial stage of denial...people WILL survive and conform to their new life. We always have. Never underestimate the human will to survive.
-
I disagree Vesta...after an initial stage of denial...people WILL survive and conform to their new life. We always have. Never underestimate the human will to survive.
Sad, thousands and thousands of years to bring us to this point in technology and quality of life and see it degrade back to all the things we fought for on this planet.
You know we still do not know what kind of technology allowed the civilisations in Africa and South America to build and develop mind boggling civilizations. Where did the people go to, why did they stop and fall back into time.?
-
I disagree Vesta...after an initial stage of denial...people WILL survive and conform to their new life. We always have. Never underestimate the human will to survive.
After 95% of us die off, I am not sure we can say it will still be the same society
-
You mention sowing and reaping grains, good idea but then what.? Do we know how to separate the grain from the shaft, where is a mill stone to grind the grain into flour.? Corn can be dried and pounded by hand into corn flour but that is a last ditch effort.
I DO know how to seperate the grain from the chaff. It ain't that hard. I also know how to grind wheat into a course flour using rocks. Same with corn meal. It's labor intensive and time consuming, but not all that difficult.
Who of us knows the good wild berry's from the poison ones, how many of us can milk a cow or goat.? Who can make a wooden plow share to hand pull through the ground to plant crops.?
I can. I also know technigues for testing plants that I am unsure of.
We possibly could survive a year or 2 but when the toilet paper runs out we are shit out of luck.
Corn cobs, leaves, tree moss. Worked for those that came before us.
-
After 95% of us die off, I am not sure we can say it will still be the same society
I never said we'd be the same society...we'd revert back to a different era....but the human race will survive. If history is any indicator....
-
I think there may be two different scenarios here....
Off the grid - basically disappearing into a wilderness situation - in the world as we know it today....
Suvivalism in the case of nuclear holocaust.....
Off the grid in today's world....I don't think I could do it, only because my idea of roughing it is a hotel without room service. :-) Seriously though....I have no desire to just disappear and fend for survival. I think the desire must be there, and then it could be accomplished by trial and error.
Survivalism in the case of nuclear disaster....yes I could if not injured, only because there would be other people who would all have to bond in order to survive. The bonding with others would bring together a composite of skills enabling the group to survive. That's human nature.
-
Not to self- buy a lemon tree and an orange tree
-
Not to self- buy a lemon tree and an orange tree
Citrus greening might just put a stop to that. There are rumblings of stopping home sales of trees and the Gubbamint has already been trying to get folks with their own trees to cut them down to try and save the industry.
That plan has about as much a chance as a plan for stopping sex by asking nice. If that is the best they can do then the citrus industry is doomed.
-
Not to self- buy a lemon tree and an orange tree
From the rumblings I've read about, if the Government gets its way, no homeowner will be able to grow their own veggies, fruits, etc. Gardens and personally owned orchards will become illegal.
-
From the rumblings I've read about, if the Government gets its way, no homeowner will be able to grow their own veggies, fruits, etc. Gardens and personally owned orchards will become illegal.
I have read that too. Will it happen before or after we get government funded newspapers and a ban on unapproved political speech?
-
From the rumblings I've read about, if the Government gets its way, no homeowner will be able to grow their own veggies, fruits, etc. Gardens and personally owned orchards will become illegal.
Really? Be interested to hear about that.
-
I have read that too. Will it happen before or after we get government funded newspapers and a ban on unapproved political speech?
In conjunction with....
-
Really? Be interested to hear about that.
H.R. 875: Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009
-
H.R. 875: Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009
Thanks.
-
Going off the grid is dropping out. You can't have a job, maybe you think you can, under the table..but that involves other people's compliance, going off the grid involves no one else.
Going off the grid is self-sufficiency. You no longer exist. There is no phone, no TV, no modern conveinance. The land on which you live can not be tied to you.
It's not about MRE's and motor homes, it's off the grid.
Survivalists are one thing, off the grid, quite another.
I'd be interested in starting a discussion about this: What would it take to truly go "Off the Grid" ?
"Could I go totally off the grid" , yes absolutely. There's plenty of meat, open space, freshwater and suitable crops about in my little corner of the world to eat well and the climate is fairly bearable all year round. No harsh winter and 100F in summer isn't really all that bad.
It's not something that I'd ever choose to do, I kinda like the convenience of modern life.
-
To go off the grid here in the US would be a little difficult because of the areas to which one would have to travel to. There are a lot of national parks and one would have to hide out in there. Hunting would be a problem as it is illegal to discharge a firearm in a National Park. One would always have to be on the move as to not get caught illegally camping on the "King's Property". Fishing is illegal throughout the US unless one has a "license" After all, we mustn't harvest any of the "King's Animals" without permission!! Then there's where the National Parks are. MOST are located where winters are harsh and if they aren't, they don't have a lot of game to harvest, limited fishing, or are somewhat populated with campers and the like. Regardless, even Down Under, one would eventually have to surface to resupply for clothing, ammo, etc. unless one was able to make decent snares and traps and make their own clothes out of what they catch.
-
To go off the grid here in the US would be a little difficult because of the areas to which one would have to travel to. There are a lot of national parks and one would have to hide out in there. Hunting would be a problem as it is illegal to discharge a firearm in a National Park. One would always have to be on the move as to not get caught illegally camping on the "King's Property". Fishing is illegal throughout the US unless one has a "license" After all, we mustn't harvest any of the "King's Animals" without permission!! Then there's where the National Parks are. MOST are located where winters are harsh and if they aren't, they don't have a lot of game to harvest, limited fishing, or are somewhat populated with campers and the like. Regardless, even Down Under, one would eventually have to surface to resupply for clothing, ammo, etc. unless one was able to make decent snares and traps and make their own clothes out of what they catch.
I'd only really consider dropping completely from the grid if the grid was down, so to speak.
In that case there are concessions to be made with regard to clothing, which is only really *required* to prevent sunburn, and one can always spear fish, crocs, catch crabs and prawns with pots or a net and a buncha other ways of gathering meat crops.
-
I'd only really consider dropping completely from the grid if the grid was down, so to speak.
In that case there are concessions to be made with regard to clothing, which is only really *required* to prevent sunburn, and one can always spear fish, crocs, catch crabs and prawns with pots or a net and a buncha other ways of gathering meat crops.
You can have all the fun you care to by "spearing crocs". :cheersmate: :popcorn:
Maybe down under clothing is only necessary for protection from the sun. Here in the US, we also have the cold to deal with. Let me assure you, 30°F and a little wind, you're GOING to be wishing you had clothes. Colder than that, like it gets in some areas, and it could be life threatening.
-
You can have all the fun you care to by "spearing crocs". :cheersmate: :popcorn:
Maybe down under clothing is only necessary for protection from the sun. Here in the US, we also have the cold to deal with. Let me assure you, 30°F and a little wind, you're GOING to be wishing you had clothes. Colder than that, like it gets in some areas, and it could be life threatening.
In the northern parts of the country and on the coast temperatures might get down to the single digit Celsius range on a particularly unusual winter night. Day time and it's far more acceptable.
It gets below freezing in lot of places here in winter - but i live 1400 or so miles minimum north of those places.
There is the option for leather or fur clothing in winter - which while not exactly comfortable are good enough to keep a mild chill out.
One models their plan on what is available.
-
In my opinion the easiest way to go off the grid in modern society would be to do so in plain sight. I recall reading a book on the subject years ago in which the author lived on the streets for a few months. Then again, my definition of being "off the grid" is merely being untraceable, not completely forgoing civilization. Lose the cell phone, ID and credit cards, stable address, etc, etc. There are thousands living such lives in densely populated urban areas right now.
As for myself, I would be all but unable to go off the grid due to my job and family.
-
Seems to me the hardest part of really going off the grid is staying unknown to the majority of other people!
------------------
The post-nuke situation doesn't look too bad to me for survival, though. You wouldn't need a great many survival skills.
1) Get a geiger counter and a bunch of 9-volt batteries, or whatever they run on. Essential, as you wouldn't want to survive in a radiation-free area just to cook yourself by entering one.
1) Drive where it's warm most of the year round so making fire/staying warm isn't an issue except for, possibly, scaring away wild or feral animals (and also see below). Of course you'd need to raid a gun store on the way to the south.
2) If you can't find a source of clean natural water at first, live on bottled. My assumptions are based on the fact that you are still alive, which means you haven't caught lethal rads. And wherever you set up also won't, as you're paying attention to your geiger counter. Never venture far from your new base camp without your geiger counter.
3) Live on canned goods and vitamin supplements, which will be in abundant supply, for the rest of your life. Find a pharmacy. Maybe grow some fresh veggies/fruit; find books on how to identify safe berries and, if you're feeling brave, mushrooms. If you don't know how to hunt (like me), learn. Go fishing.
4) Stay the hell away from other people and shoot anyone who comes near you. Live as a hermit. Other people will probably the most dangerous threat you face in the post-nuke world.
5) Hope like hell you never need surgery of any kind. At least, though, with all the empty pharmacies you'll never lack for antibiotics.
Hey, I didn't say it'd be a good life. Just life.
-
Seems to me the hardest part of really going off the grid is staying unknown to the majority of other people!
------------------
The post-nuke situation doesn't look too bad to me for survival, though. You wouldn't need a great many survival skills.
1) Get a geiger counter and a bunch of 9-volt batteries, or whatever they run on. Essential, as you wouldn't want to survive in a radiation-free area just to cook yourself by entering one.
1) Drive where it's warm most of the year round so making fire/staying warm isn't an issue except for, possibly, scaring away wild or feral animals (and also see below). Of course you'd need to raid a gun store on the way to the south.
2) If you can't find a source of clean natural water at first, live on bottled. My assumptions are based on the fact that you are still alive, which means you haven't caught lethal rads. And wherever you set up also won't, as you're paying attention to your geiger counter. Never venture far from your new base camp without your geiger counter.
3) Live on canned goods and vitamin supplements, which will be in abundant supply, for the rest of your life. Find a pharmacy. Maybe grow some fresh veggies/fruit; find books on how to identify safe berries and, if you're feeling brave, mushrooms. If you don't know how to hunt (like me), learn. Go fishing.
4) Stay the hell away from other people and shoot anyone who comes near you. Live as a hermit. Other people will probably the most dangerous threat you face in the post-nuke world.
5) Hope like hell you never need surgery of any kind. At least, though, with all the empty pharmacies you'll never lack for antibiotics.
Hey, I didn't say it'd be a good life. Just life.
The last thing I worry about in my life time a nuke strike. if it happens it happens and at my age I would just be a burden on what ever society is left.
Trying to survive in unnatural times is a way of life for the below 40 generation.
Who will not survive and who will can be debated.
1st to go-----------
Any one with any kind of handicap, be it needing glasses to see , to diabetics and those on medication daily for heart or lungs. The very young that need infant formulae to the early 20 year olds that get impacted wisdom teeth that are infected. Those who cannot ----Godot, medication has a shelf life of less then a year and Nytro pills only around 3-4 months. Some pain medications will in time change chemically and become very dangerous.----
2nd. to go ----
Our professionals, Lawyers, Doctors in the field of specialization such as face lifts and the head shrinks or therapists for mental problems. Most VETS that have never worked with farm animals and their technicians. Our bankers, sales men and anyone in the computer field or electronics, TV or radio. Those that specialise in the electric run medical devices in hospitals to bartenders. Mechanics that have no idea how to build a field plow.
College grads that majored in most subjects as well as the addicted, the lazy and the street thugs. Most people in the service industry and all our politicians and their trophy wives.
Who will do well to survive
1st the Hookers, they seem to be the number one survivalest of any life or time.
The youth that attended trade schools and are carpenters, stone masons, weavers sheep shearers, well diggers and EMT's. The Professional Herbalists, boat builders, midwives and surgeons.
Pot growers, brewers and bakers.
The potters, glass blowers and those that work with metal . Shoe makers, tailors and naturally a few Clergy that also work at a trade. Those that can tan hides and can make sails for boats and tents for shelter.
The monsters that will for a price do anything, the people with the where with all to buy and sell others as slaves, those who can round up the hungry and attack other people for their goods,.
And so it will begin again, this time not from the start of civilisation but the later times when mankind has left off at the middle ages.
It may not take but 8 generations before the people jump ahead to where we are now and the whole thing will repeat itself again. Why not, as long as no one burns our library's as the library at Alexander was destroyed, just imagine how fast we could have progressed had that not happend.
There are many who believe that as the earth is so very old that this may have taken place before, many times in fact as we cannot to this time duplicate some of the man made things we find today,.
Your Geiger counter will last only as long as you can find battery's to run it, best to just learn to live with radiation as we do now.
-
I am almost off the grid now. I have a big garden, chickens, rabbits and in my backyard deer, turkey and squirrels. I heat with wood. If I had a way to produce my own power as in solar or wind you cut the coards to my house and I would be fine.
-
Seems to me the hardest part of really going off the grid is staying unknown to the majority of other people!
------------------
The post-nuke situation doesn't look too bad to me for survival, though. You wouldn't need a great many survival skills.
1) Get a geiger counter and a bunch of 9-volt batteries, or whatever they run on. Essential, as you wouldn't want to survive in a radiation-free area just to cook yourself by entering one.
1) Drive where it's warm most of the year round so making fire/staying warm isn't an issue except for, possibly, scaring away wild or feral animals (and also see below). Of course you'd need to raid a gun store on the way to the south.
2) If you can't find a source of clean natural water at first, live on bottled. My assumptions are based on the fact that you are still alive, which means you haven't caught lethal rads. And wherever you set up also won't, as you're paying attention to your geiger counter. Never venture far from your new base camp without your geiger counter.
3) Live on canned goods and vitamin supplements, which will be in abundant supply, for the rest of your life. Find a pharmacy. Maybe grow some fresh veggies/fruit; find books on how to identify safe berries and, if you're feeling brave, mushrooms. If you don't know how to hunt (like me), learn. Go fishing.
4) Stay the hell away from other people and shoot anyone who comes near you. Live as a hermit. Other people will probably the most dangerous threat you face in the post-nuke world.
5) Hope like hell you never need surgery of any kind. At least, though, with all the empty pharmacies you'll never lack for antibiotics.
Hey, I didn't say it'd be a good life. Just life.
Good luck finding a place that won't be filled with radiation.
http://www.infomercantile.com/images/e/ef/Fallout_Map,_3-23-1963-Saturday-Evening-Post.jpg
-
Seems to me the hardest part of really going off the grid is staying unknown to the majority of other people!
------------------
The post-nuke situation doesn't look too bad to me for survival, though. You wouldn't need a great many survival skills.
1) Get a geiger counter and a bunch of 9-volt batteries, or whatever they run on. Essential, as you wouldn't want to survive in a radiation-free area just to cook yourself by entering one.
1) Drive where it's warm most of the year round so making fire/staying warm isn't an issue except for, possibly, scaring away wild or feral animals (and also see below). Of course you'd need to raid a gun store on the way to the south.
2) If you can't find a source of clean natural water at first, live on bottled. My assumptions are based on the fact that you are still alive, which means you haven't caught lethal rads. And wherever you set up also won't, as you're paying attention to your geiger counter. Never venture far from your new base camp without your geiger counter.
3) Live on canned goods and vitamin supplements, which will be in abundant supply, for the rest of your life. Find a pharmacy. Maybe grow some fresh veggies/fruit; find books on how to identify safe berries and, if you're feeling brave, mushrooms. If you don't know how to hunt (like me), learn. Go fishing.
4) Stay the hell away from other people and shoot anyone who comes near you. Live as a hermit. Other people will probably the most dangerous threat you face in the post-nuke world.
5) Hope like hell you never need surgery of any kind. At least, though, with all the empty pharmacies you'll never lack for antibiotics.
Hey, I didn't say it'd be a good life. Just life.
Wow, that is full of naivete !! Raid a gun store?? You're assuming that one of those would STILL have guns & ammo. Bottled water?!?!?!? You can't be serious!! Most of that will be gone from the store shelves or will run out in short time. Same with the pharmacies.
Pretty much, if you're not ready when it happens, you won't ever be. Just hope that you are either at Ground Zero or far enough away to survive the fallout.
-
I doubt I could survive my wife's whining.
-
I doubt I could survive my wife's whining.
Kind of like that opening statement on Man, Woman, Wild........ "The Army has Field Manuals for Survival, but nothing about surviving with your wife" (or something like that)
-
I doubt I could survive my wife's whining.
:hi5:
Best comment in the whole thread.
-
:hi5:
Best comment in the whole thread.
Tanker you may be surprised at the worth of a woman.
They are the gatherers and tenders of the gardens. They are the ones that dig for roots and figured out how to make home made salve for numerous injuries and illnesses.
Can you Tanker knit, couchette, card and by hand spin everything from human body hair to cat hair into material .?
When gone hunting game, who do you thin catches fish and dryes them for the future.? Gathers wild grown berrys and herbs to dry for future use.
To take a page out of history, when you are gone it is the woman that has to beat off the Indians.
Give me a break, it is only when woman whine and complain that anything gets done.
Some men here know how to farm, how to grind corn with a rock for meal, they have to teach the woman to do that as in the long run woman have a strength problem with splitting wood for heat and cooking.
Unfortunately survival forces people to revert back into sexest rolls.
Womans Libs will yell at me but one cannot survive if the hunter of game is a 8 month pregnant woman and her mate a strong strapping Male is at home weeding the garden.
-
Vesta, my wife will call me to let me know the plants on the back porch are withering and I need to water them...................when I get home from work. The woman will NOT sweat. :thatsright:
-
Vesta, my wife will call me to let me know the plants on the back porch are withering and I need to water them...................when I get home from work. The woman will NOT sweat. :thatsright:
I know/ knew a BUNCH of women like that.......
Hell, I was moving snow within a month of a two level cervical neck fusion.......
-
To take a page out of history, when you are gone it is the woman that has to beat off the Indians.
I don't know about you, but my ancestresses did not survive by giving out hand jobs to the Indians (Well, a couple of them were Indians, so I can't speak for their premarital activities).
You'd be surprised what I know how to do, but if my luck holds up we'll never have an opportunity to find out.