The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: enslaved1 on April 05, 2021, 12:04:36 PM
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https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/apr/03/string-theory-michio-kaku-aliens-god-equation-large-hadron-collider (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/apr/03/string-theory-michio-kaku-aliens-god-equation-large-hadron-collider)
Not the main point of the article, but I found this quote interesting.
You describe yourself as an agnostic. Has your research led you closer or further away from the idea of a designer God?
Stephen Hawking said that he didn’t believe in God because the big bang happened instantly and there was no time for God to create a universe, therefore God couldn’t exist. I have a different point of view. My parents were Buddhists and in Buddhism there is Nirvana, timelessness, no beginning and no end. But my parents put me in a Presbyterian church, so I went to Sunday school every week and learned about Genesis and how the universe was created in seven days. Now with the multiverse idea we can meld these two diametrically opposed paradigms together. According to string theory, big bangs are happening all the time. Even as we speak, Genesis is taking place somewhere in the cosmos. And what is the universe expanding into? Nirvana. Eleven-dimensional hyperspace is Nirvana. So you can have Buddhism and Judeo-Christian philosophy in one theory.
Italics my emphasis. So this guy claims that with the multiverse idea, somewhere, God made the earth in seven days, and somewhere all the Hindu creation stories happened, or are happening, and by that logic, somewhere there's a Heaven for Christian believers and a Nirvana for Buddhists, and I suppose atheists just get to cease to exist? Cosmological pragmatism to the nth degree.
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https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/apr/03/string-theory-michio-kaku-aliens-god-equation-large-hadron-collider (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/apr/03/string-theory-michio-kaku-aliens-god-equation-large-hadron-collider)
Not the main point of the article, but I found this quote interesting.
Italics my emphasis. So this guy claims that with the multiverse idea, somewhere, God made the earth in seven days, and somewhere all the Hindu creation stories happened, or are happening, and by that logic, somewhere there's a Heaven for Christian believers and a Nirvana for Buddhists, and I suppose atheists just get to cease to exist? Cosmological pragmatism to the nth degree.
All the math aside, which is completely beyond me anyway, another thing that is completely beyond me is the idea that there is one Heaven, one Hell, one Nirvana, one Chuckie Cheese.
My point is, all of this and the Great Question - "What happens when we die? Where do we go?" - cannot be defined by science because science, by definition, is limited to our understanding and maybe what we can theorize.
We cannot understand God and never will. In a roundabout way, I think that's what Kaku is saying. So let's lump it all in one basket and call it good. :cheersmate:
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Hey, Hawking. God created time.
Get back to me after you figure-out the rest of it. Funny how you never alluded to that early-on. Only when you 'became' a media-darling, surrounded by Greta Thunberg-clones.
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Scientists suck at philosophical argument. Seriously, they seem very handicapped by the inability to think outside of material terms.
Either Hawking's argument is woefully misrepresented or Hawking said something amazingly stupid.
If God is postulated as "the personality that created observed time-space" then protesting there was no time prior to that creation event fails to even recognize the question. Time-space is the essence of Nature. If it is created its creator would be above Nature - literally supernatural. What these scientists are doing is discounting the supernatural a priori. That's not scientific - because they have no direct observation, while asserting no observation is possible - that's just close mindedness.
They are free to suggest we cannot make observations outside of space-time but they betray a certain hypocrisy when they concurrently assert the supernatural cannot interact with our space-time (which religion labels as revelation). They are assigning attributes to things they say they are unable to test.
That's an act of faith. A thing they dismiss when it comes from others.
But, most strikingly of all, they want us to believe they have reasoned this inside their minds. What are their minds? Their brains, they will answer. But what is the brain? A collection of synapses formed of cells. And the cells? Proteins and other long-chain molecules held together and self replicating as matters of biochemical action and reaction. The molecules? Clusters of various atomic elements. What are atoms? Protons, neutrons, and electrons. And these subatomic particles? Expressions of quantum phenomenon that cannot even be wholly observed. In fact, they are barely described as particles or waves, but more as states from moment to moment. And these states are reduced to vibrations and perturbations in the very fabric of time-space itself.
They are saying ripples on the surface of the pond have become philosophers and scientists even though nothing in the nature of the pond or its animations comes close to suggesting such a state is possible. They simply assume it must have happened of its own accord because - lo and behold - here they are and anything else offends them, particularly suggesting someone else may have dipped their finger into the pond.
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All the math aside, which is completely beyond me anyway, another thing that is completely beyond me is the idea that there is one Heaven, one Hell, one Nirvana, one Chuckie Cheese.
My point is, all of this and the Great Question - "What happens when we die? Where do we go?" - cannot be defined by science because science, by definition, is limited to our understanding and maybe what we can theorize.
We cannot understand God and never will. In a roundabout way, I think that's what Kaku is saying. So let's lump it all in one basket and call it good. :cheersmate:
The Bible does give us enough to understand God and His plans for us. No, it doesn't tell us every detail we would like to know, but the plan of salvation and the results of following it and the results of not following it are pretty well laid out. When taken as a whole and in context, the Bible holds up logically, philosophically, historically and (enough known) scientifically that when Jesus says "I am THE way, The truth and THE light, and NONE shall come to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6, emphasis mine), it can be trusted.
As has been said by wiser minds than mine, eternity is a long time to be wrong.
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The Bible does give us enough to understand God and His plans for us. No, it doesn't tell us every detail we would like to know, but the plan of salvation and the results of following it and the results of not following it are pretty well laid out. When taken as a whole and in context, the Bible holds up logically, philosophically, historically and (enough known) scientifically that when Jesus says "I am THE way, The truth and THE light, and NONE shall come to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6, emphasis mine), it can be trusted.
As has been said by wiser minds than mine, eternity is a long time to be wrong.
No argument from me, except this -- the Bible represents faith, a scattering of historical fact, and a path forward. Nothin' to do with science.
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https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/apr/03/string-theory-michio-kaku-aliens-god-equation-large-hadron-collider (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/apr/03/string-theory-michio-kaku-aliens-god-equation-large-hadron-collider)
Not the main point of the article, but I found this quote interesting.
Italics my emphasis. So this guy claims that with the multiverse idea, somewhere, God made the earth in seven days, and somewhere all the Hindu creation stories happened, or are happening, and by that logic, somewhere there's a Heaven for Christian believers and a Nirvana for Buddhists, and I suppose atheists just get to cease to exist? Cosmological pragmatism to the nth degree.
Most people who speak/write of God think of Gandalf writ large. God invented not only this universe but all of them. He invented time. He is beyond our comprehension even when you try to disconnect the logic sockets.