Liberal here with a question for conservatives....

[Wineslob]

Damn:

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I didn't realize this needed any proof. you need me to prove that the national bank was founded while Washington was president?  You need proof that Washington favored Alexander Hamilton and his Federalist policies, over the policies of Republican Thomas Jefferson?

No. You need to prove creating an institution to meet a constitutional mandate is the same as nationalizing private assets.

We're saying you're comparing apples to oranges. I provided a post to illustrate as much.

If our illustration and contention is wrong you need to do better than say, "Nuh-uh!" and/or switch subjects.

[5412]

Hi,

I was out of town and late to this party.  As a guy who has been to many tea parties, supported conservative candidates over the years etc. let me chime in.

Forget the damn labels for a minute and look at facts.

I am opposed to something for nothing, you work, you eat.  You choose not to work, you go hungry. That is the way it is in most countries in the world.

I am not dispassionate, those who truly cannot work, birth defects, and/or other things should be provided for.  If we stopped subsidizing the lazy we would have plenty to go around for the needy.

All men are created equal, and have a right to PURSUE LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.  The government nor any society in the world guarantees equal results.  You do not penalize success in the name of "fairness" and confiscate what they achieved to give to those who choose to live off the government as a lifestyle of choice.

When Hoover and Roosevelt were sparring over what government's role should be during the great depression, Hoover wanted to subsidize businesses to create jobs so people could work and get back on their feet.  Roosevelt started unemployment and wanted to give the money directly to the people.

As it said in my daughter's history book, and I quote Mr. Hoover....."The minute you allow the public direct access to the treasury you will create chaos beyone anything mankind has ever known."

Would seem to me that Hoover was correct.  Once politicians on both sides of the aisle realized they could spend our hard earned tax dollars to buy votes they turned it into an art form.  Now we subsidize and incentivize out of wedlock birth so millions of Americans are on the government dole and therefore must continue to vote for those who feed them.  We give people in this country illegally money, free health care etc. in hopes of someday giving them amnesty so they too can be democrats and keep the party in power.

The socialists don't give a damn about the people, they find their programs are best suited to maintian their power.

A conservative looks at success as how many people they can get off the government dole, into the work force, bettering their life and the lives of their family.  Conservatives believe it is the parents and the family that know best, as do the local governments and the role of the federal government should be as intended in the constitution, to provide for the common defense and regulate trade.  The rest should be left to the states.

A socialist looks at success as how they can steal from producers, give more to those on the dole so they can maintain their power.  They more they can consolidate power federally and take it away from the states and the people the more they insure their power for generations.  Why does Mexico suck?  Might start with the fact the ruling party has ruled for 100 years.  Look at the US cities where the democrats have ruled for close to 100 years, looks like abject failure to me.

5412

[TVDOC]

I didn't realize this needed any proof. you need me to prove that the national bank was founded while Washington was president?  You need proof that Washington favored Alexander Hamilton and his Federalist policies, over the policies of Republican Thomas Jefferson?

Just for the record, and since you're such a history maven, you should know this.......prior to 1782, many private banks, and government entities (cities, states, and even private companies) were issuing their own currency........Washington (reluctantly) elected to agree to formation of a national bank in order to place the country on the path to a standardized currency, and although he was reluctant, he saw this action to be the most painless and expeditious manner in which to accomplish this constitutional mandate.

doc

[rich_t]

This is for RZZZA.  The rest of you have probably already seen me post it more than once, so forgive the repeat:

"The America of today is a laboratory example if what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout history.  A perfect democracy, a 'warm body' democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction.  It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restaint of citizens... which is opposed by the folly and lack of  self-restraint of other citizens.  What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each soveriegn citizen will always vote in public interest for the safety and welfare of all.  But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it... which for the majority translates as 'Bread and Circuses'.

Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure.  Democracy often works beautifully at first.  But once the state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state.  For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in it's weakened condition the state succums to an invader - the barbarians enter Rome."

Robert Heinlein penned that and it is true.

[DixieBelle]

I had to H5 5412.

[Gratiot]

A conservative looks at success as how many people they can get off the government dole, into the work force, bettering their life and the lives of their family.  Conservatives believe it is the parents and the family that know best, as do the local governments and the role of the federal government should be as intended in the constitution, to provide for the common defense and regulate trade.  The rest should be left to the states.

One of the finest definitions I've seen on here yet, a great perspective.    and H5 also!

[5412]

One of the finest definitions I've seen on here yet, a great perspective.    and H5 also!

Hi,

I thank you both.

Personally I am fed up with the crap, the lies and the irresponsibility of our elected officials.  If we could just get an honest press instead of one with stupid agendas we could still save this country.

Enough already,
5412

[ROCKURWORLD]

"The America of today is a laboratory example if what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout history.  A perfect democracy, a 'warm body' democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction.  It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restaint of citizens... which is opposed by the folly and lack of  self-restraint of other citizens.  What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each soveriegn citizen will always vote in public interest for the safety and welfare of all.  But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it... which for the majority translates as 'Bread and Circuses'.

Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure.  Democracy often works beautifully at first.  But once the state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state.  For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in it's weakened condition the state succums to an invader - the barbarians enter Rome."
:

Good point..love how the Dems always say we vote against our "best interest". That post pretty much sums it up why we cote the way we do.

[TheSarge]

RZZZA has one question and one question only that he needs to answer before he can proceed here.

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,50546.msg564353.html#msg564353

[TVDOC]

RZZZA has one question and one question only that he needs to answer before he can proceed here.

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,50546.msg564353.html#msg564353

The "QUESTION" has finally been asked.......

doc

[TheSarge]

The "QUESTION" has finally been asked.......

doc

And now there is the smell of Sulfur in the air. 

[IassaFTots]

Hi,

I thank you both.

Personally I am fed up with the crap, the lies and the irresponsibility of our elected officials.  If we could just get an honest press instead of one with stupid agendas we could still save this country.

Enough already,
5412

I will add my H5 to you as well, and would like permission to share that missive with others, as well as maybe a quote for my tagline?  With Acknowledgement to you, of course. 

[5412]

I will add my H5 to you as well, and would like permission to share that missive with others, as well as maybe a quote for my tagline?  With Acknowledgement to you, of course. 

Hi,

I am flattered, of course permission granted.

regards,
5412

[Freeper]

I'm really late to this party but, I just had to comment on this.

If that's socialism then you may as well call taxes in general socialism.

Taxes are socialist when the purpose of taxation is not to fund the constitutional duties of the federal govt but, to redistribute wealth. If you actually apply the constitution most of what the federal govt does is not what our founding fathers had in mind for the federal govt nor is it constitutional.

[IassaFTots]

Hi,

I am flattered, of course permission granted.

regards,
5412

Thank you very much.