Author Topic: The backlash: Reform turns personal  (Read 14299 times)

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Offline Chris_

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2010, 05:39:21 PM »
I have a gut feeling, breaking down the second ammendment is the next lib project.

They lost that one in SCOTUS.....they could try, but they would likely get their chops smacked by the Supremes....

doc
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Offline Hawkgirl

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2010, 05:41:10 PM »
Hopefully, SCOTUS will shoot down the healthcare bill as well.

Offline Hawkgirl

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2010, 05:41:55 PM »
If the whole system of our checks and balances in our three branches works....

Offline Javelin

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2010, 06:05:54 PM »

The mother-****ers, regardless of how the "Main Stream Media" labels label them, need to know that there are elements in this nation that fully believe in and will act upon every resource available to them to ensure power hunger leftists will not infringe upon their freedoms. If that means making sure they know that their UNCONSTITUTIONAL actions will result in potentially DEATHLY consequences, so be it. Besides, they ****tards do NOT have compromise in their mindset so it is either one extreme or the other" Lose freedoms when enacting their laws or lose their existence because of it.



First of all, I know your ranting, but some things I wish for you to consider if you will.

I have spent most of my life in warfare.  I have fought against revolutionaries and for revolutionaries.  My time in intel and working with spec op units (I worked directly with them in the field albeit I did not graduate from their schools, I was a specialist).  So when I hear of people who speak of taking up arms or resorting to violence, at this point in the game, I shake my head in shame. 

Why?

While I agree with you that the second amendment does serve for our direct final and last resort against a tyrannical government.  There is a time and place for all things.

May I present to you this concept.  Sun Tzu, Art of War: Title 1, Num 20

Quote
Hold out baits to entice the enemy.  Feign disorder and crush him.

They are baiting us my friend.  In order to survive a revolution, especially of the armed kind you MUST HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE PEOPLE!  Right now anyone who thinks of doing anything is nothing but a single armed bandit.  Why would you not have the support of the people?  Things have not progressed far enough for the people to warrant war.

People are still in a daze.  In truth they do not realize what is coming.  They have no idea of how bad things are going to get.  There is going to be MUCH more pain before anyone is ready to fire a rifle.

My advice for you is to play the good Republican on a conservative forum, wait patiently.  Prepare yourself and your family for very difficult times.  Prepare your mind.  Do nothing that is not of value.  Accept the possibility of your death whether financial, physical or otherwise.  Get to know God on a very personal level.

When the American people are ready, they will let those of us who know how to truly make war know.

I will give you this consolation though, it comes from Thomas Jefferson:

Quote
And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?  That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?  Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that His justice cannot sleep forever.

Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 18, 1781

Have patience.

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Offline rich_t

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2010, 06:22:03 PM »
They lost that one in SCOTUS.....they could try, but they would likely get their chops smacked by the Supremes....

doc

Not really.  The 2nd has yet to be incorporated like the 1st and 4th have for instance.

IMO the SCOTUS has yet to make a full, clear ruling on the 2nd.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2010, 06:29:01 PM »
Not really.  The 2nd has yet to be incorporated like the 1st and 4th have for instance.

IMO the SCOTUS has yet to make a full, clear ruling on the 2nd.

The only piece that they haven't done is apply it to the states and localities......Heller established the fundamental right, which is the big hurdle......that forbids Federal action......the states have always had a certain autonomy when it comes to gun laws, it will be great if the Chicago case comes in on our side, but its not essential....

doc
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Offline Airwolf

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2010, 06:49:25 PM »
To my friends here and to anyone that is new. I suggest this. We try all avenues of law available to us and use the ballot box. We waste no time and effirt in meaningless gestures nor do we give the enemies of freedom the rope to hang us with. In due time we may unfortunately have to cross the final line into a rebellion but not before we rightfully and honestly use the law and our votes to make this Government work. If it should fail in the end then and only then should we even consider the consequences of action against our fellow Americans.

As was said before choose your words wisely and wait patiently. We can live with what has happened. There is time and others have taken legal action to stop this abuse of Government powers. We must let them win or lose in a court of law before we continue our course of action. With God's good grace we will see everything they have done become a distant memory and their ideas are trampled under the foot of history as their agenda and their part is left in ruins by their own actions,not ours.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2010, 06:56:17 PM »
Well, from all the gossip I've heard, our small town tea party has been run off county property but we have a lot better place to meet now.....and all indications are that we're gonna need it...... :rotf:

The more they push the more people are pushing back.
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Offline Javelin

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2010, 07:14:43 PM »
To my friends here and to anyone that is new. I suggest this. We try all avenues of law available to us and use the ballot box. We waste no time and effirt in meaningless gestures nor do we give the enemies of freedom the rope to hang us with. In due time we may unfortunately have to cross the final line into a rebellion but not before we rightfully and honestly use the law and our votes to make this Government work. If it should fail in the end then and only then should we even consider the consequences of action against our fellow Americans.

As was said before choose your words wisely and wait patiently. We can live with what has happened. There is time and others have taken legal action to stop this abuse of Government powers. We must let them win or lose in a court of law before we continue our course of action. With God's good grace we will see everything they have done become a distant memory and their ideas are trampled under the foot of history as their agenda and their part is left in ruins by their own actions,not ours.

Sound advice....  I agree with every word.

When emotions run high people tend to jump and want to solve the issue with direct action.  Perhaps the words direct action should be used instead of violence.  It seems more appropriate in these times.

One thing to consider is that war has many forms and shapes.  It first begins with the mind.  Then the end is with the weapons.  In between is politics.  At this moment there is no way we should or have the need to advance to weapons.  I am not saying that "direct action" is never acceptable.  I am not that naive.  What I am saying is that the battles must be won in the mind first.  A clear objective must be given and a clear threat presented.  In order to defend there must be a need to defend that justifies the action used to defend.

At this point they have given nothing but taunts.  Even with legislation passed such as HC, many are clearly upset just as I was upset with Bush on the Patriot Act.  You see I have personally been waiting for far much longer than many here. 

The clock is ticking.  We are running out of time before we are cornered like an animal.  Look at Greece, and imagine how we will deal with what is coming.  The question of what is the right action will be on many more minds in the near future and with a far more sobering reality than high emotions over a piece of legislation in the near future.  The HC bill is a small minute power grab compared to what will come next.

Offline PatriotGame

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2010, 07:23:48 PM »
Yeah, it is a nice rant. I hope you feel better.

I'm just not with you on the "revolution" thing. Sorry.

And good luck. It sounds like if this goes south, you'll be one of those guys that they'll be tracking down up in the Sierra Nevadas.....

If that's what floats your boat, who am I to say you're wrong?

Hey, that is all fine and well man. Be part of the solution or be succumbed to the problem. It is your life and I fully believe that giving in will get YOUR nuts cut off.
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Offline PatriotGame

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2010, 07:24:36 PM »
For a lot of reasons......not the least of which is the future of this Forum......we want to be VERY careful of our choice of words here......

Lets discuss this in a thoughtful, and civil manner.......

doc

Puppies and more cowbell is a good start here... :whatever:
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Offline PatriotGame

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2010, 07:25:48 PM »
Alinsky programmed for CHAOS to be an opportunity; and the state-run propaganda ministry would spin those bong-sucking queers into martyrs in a heart beat.

The second amendment enshrines the right to bear arms, but only IN SELF DEFENSE.  Picking up a rifle and hitting the streets looking for a fight is not what the founders had in mind.  Protect your home and family - from the government, if that's who the threat turns out to be - and unite with friends and neighbors to defend their homes and yours. 

Ahhhhh...a "well Armed Militia" is USUALLY used for what????????

(Pssst...it ain't turkey hunting...)
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Offline PatriotGame

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2010, 07:30:00 PM »
First of all, I know your ranting, but some things I wish for you to consider if you will.

I have spent most of my life in warfare.  I have fought against revolutionaries and for revolutionaries.  My time in intel and working with spec op units (I worked directly with them in the field albeit I did not graduate from their schools, I was a specialist).  So when I hear of people who speak of taking up arms or resorting to violence, at this point in the game, I shake my head in shame. 

Why?

While I agree with you that the second amendment does serve for our direct final and last resort against a tyrannical government.  There is a time and place for all things.

May I present to you this concept.  Sun Tzu, Art of War: Title 1, Num 20

They are baiting us my friend.  In order to survive a revolution, especially of the armed kind you MUST HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE PEOPLE!  Right now anyone who thinks of doing anything is nothing but a single armed bandit.  Why would you not have the support of the people?  Things have not progressed far enough for the people to warrant war.

People are still in a daze.  In truth they do not realize what is coming.  They have no idea of how bad things are going to get.  There is going to be MUCH more pain before anyone is ready to fire a rifle.

My advice for you is to play the good Republican on a conservative forum, wait patiently.  Prepare yourself and your family for very difficult times.  Prepare your mind.  Do nothing that is not of value.  Accept the possibility of your death whether financial, physical or otherwise.  Get to know God on a very personal level.

When the American people are ready, they will let those of us who know how to truly make war know.

I will give you this consolation though, it comes from Thomas Jefferson:

Have patience.


I agree with most of what you said and mostly what I was alluding to in my original post was it is OK to throw a brick through someone's window. Big difference between that and marching on Washington. As I know DUmmies and liberals, when they find their diversity laws cannot protect them, a brick through their windows will send them scurrying into their basements and backing them off for a while.

I noticed you site some history there...funny...I see history being repeated itself here now in this nation. Where is that headed and what do we do about it?
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Offline DefiantSix

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2010, 07:36:38 PM »
Ahhhhh...a "well Armed Militia" is USUALLY used for what????????

(Pssst...it ain't turkey hunting...)

Psst...  The phrase was "A well REGULATED militia"....
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Offline PatriotGame

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2010, 07:37:01 PM »
To my friends here and to anyone that is new. I suggest this. We try all avenues of law available to us and use the ballot box. We waste no time and effirt in meaningless gestures nor do we give the enemies of freedom the rope to hang us with. In due time we may unfortunately have to cross the final line into a rebellion but not before we rightfully and honestly use the law and our votes to make this Government work. If it should fail in the end then and only then should we even consider the consequences of action against our fellow Americans.

As was said before choose your words wisely and wait patiently. We can live with what has happened. There is time and others have taken legal action to stop this abuse of Government powers. We must let them win or lose in a court of law before we continue our course of action. With God's good grace we will see everything they have done become a distant memory and their ideas are trampled under the foot of history as their agenda and their part is left in ruins by their own actions,not ours.

God is everything. I have been reading - ask God for it and if you believe in him, you MUST believe in him, God will always deliver. If that is, it is in God's will.
God will rarely give us what we want but will ALWAYS give us what we need.

I fully believe this nation was created and made great under God.

I believe that God does help and guide me. I believe he gave me life and an extreme aptitude in engineering disciplines; mainly electrical, computing, and control systems.
This aptitude has allowed me to make a very good living wage even though I worked TWO jobs to put myself through college.
This has afforded me a nice paycheck that just allowed me to go out of my home and buy another 1/2 gallon of Chivas Regal. :evillaugh:

I am becoming all better now.






(I am still pissed though.....)

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Offline Javelin

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2010, 07:38:58 PM »
I agree with most of what you said and mostly what I was alluding to in my original post was it is OK to throw a brick through someone's window. Big difference between that and marching on Washington. As I know DUmmies and liberals, when they find their diversity laws cannot protect them, a brick through their windows will send them scurrying into their basements and backing them off for a while.

I noticed you site some history there...funny...I see history being repeated itself here now in this nation. Where is that headed and what do we do about it?

History ALWAYS repeats itself lol.  Thats one constant we can count on.  Greece, Rome, Persia all expansionist that met their fate for different reasons yet out of consequence for similar actions.  We are no different.  Typically when it comes burning down it is replaced, less often its reset.  We are praying for the "reset button" to be pushed.  Yet times are very different now.

As to where its headed and what do we do about it?  In my opinion, look at Greece.  What they seek to control they cannot control.  They believe they can control it but the machine that has been built is far too large for them.  It was meant for freedom, freedom of man and markets, ideas and life.  Lasso it and it will erupt like an volcano.  If you ask me the battlefield will be defined after a currency collapse.  

Once again if you look to history, Germany faced the same issue that we are now.  They did a land grab and used the land to back a new currency.  Yeah, thats right before Hitler came on the scene lol.  They will need even more power, and money, real money.  Gold, silver and such.  People are not prepared for whats coming.  The problem is that many will have no option but to follow like sheep for they do not even know how to grow a garden, much less survive without their LCD TVs and Facebook.  

The complications of what is coming, is impossible to calculate.  Yet therein is our advantage.  They cannot calculate the outcome either.

Offline PatriotGame

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2010, 07:42:42 PM »
Sound advice....  I agree with every word.

When emotions run high people tend to jump and want to solve the issue with direct action.  Perhaps the words direct action should be used instead of violence.  It seems more appropriate in these times.

One thing to consider is that war has many forms and shapes.  It first begins with the mind.  Then the end is with the weapons.  In between is politics.  At this moment there is no way we should or have the need to advance to weapons.  I am not saying that "direct action" is never acceptable.  I am not that naive.  What I am saying is that the battles must be won in the mind first.  A clear objective must be given and a clear threat presented.  In order to defend there must be a need to defend that justifies the action used to defend.

At this point they have given nothing but taunts.  Even with legislation passed such as HC, many are clearly upset just as I was upset with Bush on the Patriot Act.  You see I have personally been waiting for far much longer than many here. 

The clock is ticking.  We are running out of time before we are cornered like an animal.  Look at Greece, and imagine how we will deal with what is coming.  The question of what is the right action will be on many more minds in the near future and with a far more sobering reality than high emotions over a piece of legislation in the near future.  The HC bill is a small minute power grab compared to what will come next.

Speaking of Greece - hyper inflation, and it IS coming, will strip the grocery store shelves of food. When that happens, guess who will be the ONLY place where you can get food?

The government rationed co-op.

When your knee is broke and the only source of health care is government controlled, when you are hungry and the government feeds you, when it costs $600.00/month to power your home because of cap-and-trade, when gasoline is $10.00 a gallon, you will be COMPLETELY dependent on the government for everything.

And I GUARAN-****ING-TEE you and everyone else will suck Pelosi's dick for a meal and a doctor's care.

That is exactly where 0bama and Alinski is heading us towards.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2010, 07:43:48 PM »
(sigh)...Lighten up, Francis.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline PatriotGame

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2010, 07:46:33 PM »
Psst...  The phrase was "A well REGULATED militia"....

Shit!
I'm drinking - give me a break!

You are correct - I agree that the Second Amendment was not intended to demand we march on Washington every time some politician screws things up or a group of us get all pissy over some politics.

Who would regulate the citizens militia though and under what conditions?
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Offline PatriotGame

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2010, 07:52:14 PM »
History ALWAYS repeats itself lol.  Thats one constant we can count on.  Greece, Rome, Persia all expansionist that met their fate for different reasons yet out of consequence for similar actions.  We are no different.  Typically when it comes burning down it is replaced, less often its reset.  We are praying for the "reset button" to be pushed.  Yet times are very different now.

As to where its headed and what do we do about it?  In my opinion, look at Greece.  What they seek to control they cannot control.  They believe they can control it but the machine that has been built is far too large for them.  It was meant for freedom, freedom of man and markets, ideas and life.  Lasso it and it will erupt like an volcano.  If you ask me the battlefield will be defined after a currency collapse.  

Once again if you look to history, Germany faced the same issue that we are now.  They did a land grab and used the land to back a new currency.  Yeah, thats right before Hitler came on the scene lol.  They will need even more power, and money, real money.  Gold, silver and such.  People are not prepared for whats coming.  The problem is that many will have no option but to follow like sheep for they do not even know how to grow a garden, much less survive without their LCD TVs and Facebook.  

The complications of what is coming, is impossible to calculate.  Yet therein is our advantage.  They cannot calculate the outcome either.

You know Jav, that is some good insight. As I stated, I was ranting but I have been watching that series on the high-def History channel, WWII in High-Def and have become quite emotional over the attitude of our nation during that period in history and now.
I have zero doubt that our currency will collapse due entirely to 0bama and his minions. When this happens the American people will be in for some severe pain.

We cannot grab land, we cannot grab anymore precious metals, we can no longer just print more dollars after we lose our AAA rating.
What is left?

Better hoard food, water, fuel, and ammo.....
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Offline Hawkgirl

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2010, 08:02:24 PM »
I say we're a good ten years away from disaster....if the Obama machine stays in power.

Which they won't.  Most states have already discussed motions to repeal this bill.  And if the people are behind it....and the SCOTUS deems it unconstitional...the whole country will breathe a sigh of relief.

Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2010, 08:03:29 PM »
History ALWAYS repeats itself lol.  Thats one constant we can count on.  Greece, Rome, Persia all expansionist that met their fate for different reasons yet out of consequence for similar actions.  We are no different.  Typically when it comes burning down it is replaced, less often its reset.  We are praying for the "reset button" to be pushed.  Yet times are very different now.

As to where its headed and what do we do about it?  In my opinion, look at Greece.  What they seek to control they cannot control.  They believe they can control it but the machine that has been built is far too large for them.  It was meant for freedom, freedom of man and markets, ideas and life.  Lasso it and it will erupt like an volcano.  If you ask me the battlefield will be defined after a currency collapse.  

Once again if you look to history, Germany faced the same issue that we are now.  They did a land grab and used the land to back a new currency.  Yeah, thats right before Hitler came on the scene lol.  They will need even more power, and money, real money.  Gold, silver and such.  People are not prepared for whats coming.  The problem is that many will have no option but to follow like sheep for they do not even know how to grow a garden, much less survive without their LCD TVs and Facebook.  

The complications of what is coming, is impossible to calculate.  Yet therein is our advantage.  They cannot calculate the outcome either.

You just said what I would of said. Nothing lasts forever. You don't mind if I add more. The Romans collapsed for various reasons from lead poisoning known as "Saturnism", a decadent society, a society obsessed with entertainment, like gladiatorial battles, and a military stretched too thin due to a large empire. I am seeing this in America, minus the lead poisoning, in this case obesity. People are obsessed with "reality" shows and mindless entertainment. Also, the currency is weak.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
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Offline DefiantSix

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2010, 08:08:25 PM »
You know Jav, that is some good insight. As I stated, I was ranting but I have been watching that series on the high-def History channel, WWII in High-Def and have become quite emotional over the attitude of our nation during that period in history and now.
I have zero doubt that our currency will collapse due entirely to 0bama and his minions. When this happens the American people will be in for some severe pain.

We cannot grab land, we cannot grab anymore precious metals, we can no longer just print more dollars after we lose our AAA rating.
What is left?

Better hoard food, water, fuel, and ammo.....

You are aware that Lord Zero has "authorized" eminent domain rights to the ChiComs as backing for the bonds he's selling them, aren't you?
"Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here."
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2010, 08:08:39 PM »
You know Jav, that is some good insight. As I stated, I was ranting but I have been watching that series on the high-def History channel, WWII in High-Def and have become quite emotional over the attitude of our nation during that period in history and now.
I have zero doubt that our currency will collapse due entirely to 0bama and his minions. When this happens the American people will be in for some severe pain.

We cannot grab land, we cannot grab anymore precious metals, we can no longer just print more dollars after we lose our AAA rating.
What is left?

Better hoard food, water, fuel, and ammo.....

Good call. There is a possibility that we could see a huge solar flare eruption on the level of the Carrington Event of 1859. It could happen as early as next year to 2013, including 2012. If it was to happen, all the power grid would be fried and power would be our for months to years. The economy would be setback quite a bit.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/06may_carringtonflare.htm
http://factoidz.com/could-another-carrington-event-destroy-our-economy/
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 08:18:59 PM by Ptarmigan »
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Offline Javelin

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Re: The backlash: Reform turns personal
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2010, 08:24:42 PM »
I say we're a good ten years away from disaster....if the Obama machine stays in power.

Which they won't.  Most states have already discussed motions to repeal this bill.  And if the people are behind it....and the SCOTUS deems it unconstitional...the whole country will breathe a sigh of relief.

From my perspective I believe that 10 years is very very optimistic.  Here is why.

If you take a look at our Debt to GDP ratio, you can find it here http://www.usdebtclock.org/ in the top right hand corner you will see our current Debt to GDP.  Its at 88.3%.  Many economist are now using Greece as our current benchmark for trouble.  Yet with this, many consider that the USA is already in some terms on the same level as Greece.  Yet by the end of the year we should be at or close to 93 or 94% Debt to GDP.  So to break this down into real terms.

As we reach that level the amount of debt to income compared to what we are spending becomes lethal.  For example, China has been selling some of our debt already which some said would never happen or that it would happen years from now.  In short, its harder to borrow, and to borrow we must face higher yield rates (interest rates).

Also add in the fact that if rates go up on our debt it effects all things within the nation.  Add onto the fact that the US government has become a player in the market via banks and mortgages the compounding effects would kill them financially and rather quickly. 

Another factor is that currently the Government is suppressing the metals, well other natural resources as well within the markets.  Essentially they have shorted the markets to suppress prices as they keep low interest rates to tame inflation.  These short positions must be covered and they must "double down" in order to keep riding this wave which many believe they cannot afford to do.  Current positions equal one years production of various resources.

Also if any of the EU nations go down, such as Greece, or even Portugal, the ripple effect would wipe us out rather quickly.  We are all tied to the hip and there is no way to stop it.

This Jan rates on commercial real estate began to reset.  Currently there are about 45 percent or so of these mortgages under water.  Once these defaults begin to hit it will make the housing crisis look like Sunday pick-nick.  If we survive the initial impact, the EU zone will not.  The backlash from the EU will kill us.

All of these various real possible scenarios could happen within 18 months.