The Conservative Cave
Interests => Hobbies => The Book Club => Topic started by: Splashdown on November 20, 2009, 07:35:19 PM
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Could be yesterday, could be 10th grade, could be Dr. Seuss.
As most of you know, I'm a high school English teacher. I'm working on a theory. I'd love to hear your answers--readers and non-readers alike.
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I just finished another Phil Patton book last night, "The Secret Histories of Things That Made America". It was okay, very Discovery Channel-ish, but Patton did a decent job tying in the evolution of industry in America with some major (and some minor) historical events. I just wish he'd leave his liberal drivel to himself.
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http://www.amazon.com/Shack-William-P-Young/dp/0964729237
^ ^ ^ In the process of ^ ^ ^
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The door into summer.
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Rommel's Desert War: The Life and Death of the Afrika Korps
Bad book. Historically innacurate.
Now reading The Arms of Krupp for the second time.
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Not counting textbooks?
Alexander Hamilton by Ron Chernow and On the German Art of War, a translated copy of the Wehrmacht's troop leaders manual.
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Unhallowed Ground by Heather Graham.
Now reading Patricia Cornwell's Book of The Dead.
Saw Vince Flynn interviewed on Glenn Beck today....think I'm going to have to buy his new hardback this weekend....I don't think I want to wait for the paperback.....need to see what Mitch Rapp is up to in this one.
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Finished Patricia Cornwalls "The Scarpetta Factor." and David Baldaccis "True Blue."
Two books by two of my favorite authors that didnt live up to their standards. Tedious and boring.
Iris Johansens "Blood Game" now and Vince Flynns latest next.
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Just finished three this week...a Christian fiction novel by Karen Kingsbury, and OSS novel by W.E.B. Griffin, and a fluffy mystery by someone who's name I can't recall atm.
That's about average for me, I guess.
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A thriller called Summmertime by Liz Rigbey, which I picked up in a charity 2nd hand shop. I got it for a light read on a long train journey.. It was better than I expected.
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A thriller called Summmertime by Liz Rigbey, which I picked up in a charity 2nd hand shop. I got it for a light read on a long train journey.. It was better than I expected.
That avatar is hilarious!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
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The Last Symbol (bad enough to make The DaVinci Code good); Lone Star Nation; At Home with the Marquis de Sade.
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The Last Symbol (bad enough to make The DaVinci Code good); Lone Star Nation; At Home with the Marquis de Sade.
Dan Brown is tedious to say the least. Read them both. Tough reads.
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I finished the "Fireproof" novelization and am currently reading the Duggar family's book.
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Veil of Roses ~Laura Fitzgerald.
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I just finished a lighthearted romance :-) How to Marry a Millionaire Vampire by Kerrelyn Sparks :lmao: Somewhat ridiculous, but good escapist reading.
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I just finished a lighthearted romance :-) How to Marry a Millionaire Vampire by Kerrelyn Sparks :lmao: Somewhat ridiculous, but good escapist reading.
I was given a fluff mystery published in paperback in 2006, Titled Dark Harbor by David Hosp. that kind of surprised me, the plot was that after 911 a contracting company hired for the rail security in New York was billing the government for 150 non extent employees. The math was amazing, at $30,000 per year not counting overtime comes to over 4.5 MILLION dollars a year embezzled from Uncle Sam.
The authors main plot was about some religious fanatic taking the hearts from living prostitutes
BTW last night Glen Beck had for a full hour an interview with a male writer of fiction who--cant remember his name--explained that a writer of fiction had to do much research to make the story believable.
Now I have started a book Mom for some crazy reason gave me. Author Carolyn Chute who wrote the Beans of Egypt Maine. Haven't read that as this book is one that makes me squirm, it is titled " Letourneaus Used Auto Parts, " So much for living in a small town full of degenerates and wasted lives.
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Last book I finished was Plains of Passage by Jean M. Auel.
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I read the City of Ember yesterday after renting the movie. It was a lot of fun... I can't wait to get the next book in the series.
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Last book I finished was Plains of Passage by Jean M. Auel.
That was good as all of hers were.
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Last book I finished was Plains of Passage by Jean M. Auel.
My son got me into the Cave Bear Series and the last of her books I read was Planes of Passage.
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BTW last night Glen Beck had for a full hour an interview with a male writer of fiction who--cant remember his name--explained that a writer of fiction had to do much research to make the story believable.
He interviewed Vince Flynn.....if you liked Dark Harbor...you should like Flynn's
It helps if you read them in order...because the main character is Mitch Rapp and he's in each book.
You could read each book by itself and enjoy it, but as Flynn talks about events that occurred in prior books, it makes it easier to read in order. And there are some pretty important events that continue to have major impacts on Rapp as a character.
Besides that, they are all really good....in my opinion...and Glenn Beck's :-)
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I just finished the newest Alex Cross novel I, Alex Cross. I am in the middle of Dark of The Moon by John Sandford. It is part of a series he did about Virgil Flowers a detective in Minnesota. After these 3 I start some sort of vampire hunter books or something that my BFF mailed me insisting that I have to read them.
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I just finished the newest Alex Cross novel I, Alex Cross. I am in the middle of Dark of The Moon by John Sandford. It is part of a series he did about Virgil Flowers a detective in Minnesota. After these 3 I start some sort of vampire hunter books or something that my BFF mailed me insisting that I have to read them.
Read Dark of the Moon last week. I enjoyed it.
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I liked it better when Lucas Davenport was the hero but Virgil is okay cuz he learned from Lucas.
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I liked it better when Lucas Davenport was the hero but Virgil is okay cuz he learned from Lucas.
I can't believe that Sanford is done with Lucas.
He'll be back.
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I can't believe that Sanford is done with Lucas.
He'll be back.
I didn't know he was supposed to be done with him! :bawl:
ETA: Nevermind the newest Davenport book will be out in May 2010.
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Just finished -- "An Army at Dawn", by Rick Atkinson -- the narrative history of WWII North Africa - where my dad served
Next up -- "The Day of Battle", also by Rick Atkinson -- the sequel where he follows the war to Sicily and Italy
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Just finished -- "An Army at Dawn", by Rick Atkinson -- the narrative history of WWII North Africa - where my dad served
Next up -- "The Day of Battle", also by Rick Atkinson -- the sequel where he follows the war to Sicily and Italy
Hey, rusty - hope all is well.
Atkinson's "Army at Dawn" won him a Pulitzer. I have not read "The Day of Battle" yet. I haven't studied the Sicilian and Italian campaigns of WWII a great deal, so I'm glad you mentioned Atkinson's sequel.
I am currently re-reading John D. MacDonald's "Travis McGee" series. This is no dimestore novel stuff - MacDonald really knew how to describe the human condition. And the hero doesn't always come out on top... :-)
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Hey, rusty - hope all is well.
Atkinson's "Army at Dawn" won him a Pulitzer. I have not read "The Day of Battle" yet. I haven't studied the Sicilian and Italian campaigns of WWII a great deal, so I'm glad you mentioned Atkinson's sequel.
I am currently re-reading John D. MacDonald's "Travis McGee" series. This is no dimestore novel stuff - MacDonald really knew how to describe the human condition. And the hero doesn't always come out on top... :-)
I love The Travis McGee series. Meyer is one of the great sidekicks in literature! :)
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Good here Eupher - and yourself?
Army at Dawn has a section of credits and research information, that could be a book itself, haven't started "Battle" yet, maybe this weekend. Also haven't read the McGee series yet - have got so many stacked up in line, that after "Battle", hope to do "In Harms Way", the real story and history of the sinking of the USS Indianapolis, then "Ike", and then "Darker than Night". Still others on the shelf, but those have my interest right now.
Take care and have a great Thanksgiving!
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I love The Travis McGee series. Meyer is one of the great sidekicks in literature! :)
Yeah, he and his "John Maynard Keynes", the dumpy little cruiser into which he's packed more books and paper which essentially leaves his houseboat stuck at the pier! :lmao:
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Broke down and bought the new Vince Flynn hardback yesterday.....also picked up a Stuart Woods, Linda Fairstein, and James Patterson paperbacks that we haven't read yet....
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I finished " Blood Game" byIris Johansen Not recommended .
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(http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200511/1416509119.jpg) Just finished this one up last night.
Not quite sure if I'm going to pick up another one immediately, or work some more on mine. I found out over the holiday that my sister in law is working on a psychological thriller, and it would be nice to have a draft to exchange with her when she's done so we can proofread each other's work.
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I am re-reading the Left Behind series..just finished Nicolai.
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I am re-reading the Left Behind series..just finished Nicolai.
I have all of the books. Been a while since I read any of them, and I admit, I never finished. After about book five, they seemed to contrived, too assembly line for some reason.
I did watch the movie(s), a couple of months ago. :lmao:
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I have all of the books. Been a while since I read any of them, and I admit, I never finished. After about book five, they seemed to contrived, too assembly line for some reason.
I did watch the movie(s), a couple of months ago. :lmao:
Was the movie any good? I hear Kirk Cameron is Buck??
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Was the movie any good? I hear Kirk Cameron is Buck??
Movies are HORRIBLE... HORRIBLE.
Beyond low-budget. They made Buck (Kirk Cameron, as you mentioned) a TV anchor instead of a reporter. It scews the entire story, IMHO... And did I mention it was horrible?
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I have all of the books. Been a while since I read any of them, and I admit, I never finished. After about book five, they seemed to contrived, too assembly line for some reason.
I did watch the movie(s), a couple of months ago. :lmao:
I think I made it to Book 11 or 12....
Finished a Stuart Woods book on the trip...it was set in Key West....I wanna go... :bawl:, will finish Cornwell's The Book of the Dead tonight that I forgot here at home....and am going to start Vince Flynn's new book.
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Finished Vince Flynns "Pursuit of honor." A VERY nice little slap at Barbara Boxer.
Started Graftons "U is for undertow."
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Finished Vince Flynns "Pursuit of honor." A VERY nice little slap at Barbara Boxer.
Started Graftons "U is for undertow."
She needs lots of those -- just to get her attention.
Just finished John D. MacDonald's "The Turquoise Lament" in the Travis McGee series and am into "The Dreadful Lemon Sky." Nobody writes about the human condition quite like MacDonald did (he died in 1986).
Here's a quote from "Bright Orange for the Shroud":
"People take you at the value you put upon yourself. That makes it easy for them. All you do is blend in. Accept the customs of every new tribe. And you try not to say too much because then you sound as if you were selling something... Sweetie, everybody in this wide world is so constantly, continuously concerned with the impact he's making, he just doesn't have the time to wonder too much about the next guy."
Here's another quote, from the book that I'm currently reading. Lord, they just don't make writers like this anymore:
His usual at-home drink was Plymouth gin, until in 1974 the inevitable happened. Here is how he tells it in THE DREADFUL LEMON SKY, p.32. "I...broke out the very last bottle of the Plymouth gin which had been bottled in the United Kingdom. All the others were bottled in the U.S. Gin People, it isn't the same. It's still a pretty good gin, but it is not a superb, stingingly dry, and lovely gin. ...There is something self-destructive about Western technology and distribution. Whenever any consumer object is so excellent that it attracts a devoted following, some of the slide rule and computer types come in on their twinkle toes and take over the store, and in a trice they figure out just how far they can cut quality and still increase the market penetration... Thus the very good things of the world go down the drain, from honest turkey to honest eggs to honest tomatoes. And gin."
Travis McGee (http://home.earthlink.net/~rufener/)
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I don't know why I am embarrassed to admit this but I am reading Jeanine Frost's Night Huntress Series right now. It is brain candy and sexy vampire brain candy at that.
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Finished Vince Flynns "Pursuit of honor." A VERY nice little slap at Barbara Boxer.
Started Graftons "U is for undertow."
Is it good? I have read all of them so far, but I did find T is for Trespass hard going.
I reading 2666 by Roberto Bolano (http://www.amazon.co.uk/2666-Roberto-Bolano/dp/0330447432/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260474603&sr=8-1). It's hard to describe, but great so far.
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To me it was good but then I like to read about Mitch Rapp kicking ass.
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To me it was good but then I like to read about Mitch Rapp kicking ass.
That's good, of course having got as far as "T" I'm not going stop before Z. :-)
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To me it was good but then I like to read about Mitch Rapp kicking ass.
Just started Pursuit of Honor this morning....other half really enjoyed it....but we both like reading about Mitch kicking ass, too.
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:cheersmate:
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Just finished reading The Prince again. About to pick up The Road to Serfdom again after all the infiltration of collectivism into political decisions that involves my daily routines.
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Currently reading The Long Fuse: How England Lost The American Colonies, 1760-1785 by somebody named Don Cook.
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Faye Kellerman Blindman's Bluff. I LOVE Faye Kellerman!
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Just finished I Alex Cross Patterson and started Kings new thousand plus pages Under the Tower. Oh boy!
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Just finished Liberty and Tyranny. Before that, I read Dracula, Journey to the Center of the Earth and Canterbury Tales. I just started The Grapes of Wrath, which I've never read before, involuntarily or voluntarily. What a freaking luddite Steinbeck is in the intro set-up! My Dad was a farmer, who used tractors and such. He cared for his land as much as any mule- or horse-driving farmer. And his machinery and such also made his land vastly more productive (that's why it used to be called, "Progress"). I'm going to try to get through Grapes, if only to get a better picture of the lib/prog mindset.
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Since I am a Beck fan - I just finished The Christmas Sweater. Also reading (or finishing up) The Forgotten Man by Amity Shlaes. I recommend both books.
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Concur with your recommendation of The Forgotten Man, which I read earlier this year. Also read Liberal Fascism earlier this year, which I highly recommend.
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Finished Vince Flynn's Pursuit of Honor tonight.
I highly recommend it....just make sure to read Extreme Measures first.
It isn't necessary to read EM first...just make P of H more exciting....
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The last book I finished was Under the Dome by Stephen King, at his most long winded and mean spirited, still it was a real page turner.
I'm currently in the middle of Going Rogue by Sarah Palin.
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Dear SVPete,
I loves me some Steinbeck. So I'm curious, and please forgive the question, but how does the Grapes of Wrath provide insight into the Lib mindset? I only ask because I happen to be somewhat familiar with some of Mr. Steinbecks works. I'd recommend East of Eden over Grapes anyday. Eden has it all. Guns, Injuns, whiskey, whores, murder, the first World War and horses. Oh, and dope and money. It may or may not have a whole hell of a lot to do with farming. But it's got a great Chinaman' in it and a pretty cool recipe for winter melon soup too so I say check that one out instead.
Oh, and I'm reading an epic bio about Andy Jackson written in the thirties by Marquis James right now. (No, I have no idea if he's french and/or gay. If he was, it's no big deal because now he's humpin' poodles in Heaven.)
Anyway, before that I read W.F.B. a remembrance. By Buckley Jr and his sister. It's about W.F.B. Sr. Who, as it turns out, kicked even more ass than Bill Buckley Jr. Seriously, the man practiced law in Mesico' because he grew up speaking Spanish on the Texican border. He funded, schemed, plotted and survived his way through 4 Mesiken' revolutions before being booted out of the country on a technicality. All because the man wanted to make an honest buck drilling for oil. After ripping on Woodrow Wilson for fuggin' up Mesico' in 1919...at a Congressional hearing (so it's all on record), he then went to Venezuela to drill and encountered the same ol' same ol' so he decided to have 10 kids and 31 grandkids before taking the proverbial dirt nap in 58'. Hell of a man.
Steinbeck would have loved him.
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The last book I finished was Under the Dome by Stephen King, at his most long winded and mean spirited, still it was a real page turner.
I'm currently in the middle of Going Rogue by Sarah Palin.
I was going to attemp to read Under The Dome even though Mr. King has a brutal case of BDS. I wish he would STFU and just write a dang story.
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So I'm curious, and please forgive the question, but how does the Grapes of Wrath provide insight into the Lib mindset?
Up till a week or two, I would have done a bit of guilt-by-association, pointing out the affinity academia seems to have for Steinbeck (among others), academia being generally liberal, in the liberal arts anyway (I realize that "liberal arts" does not refer to modern political liberalism). After reading about 1/8 of the book, I'd point to things like Steinbeck's seeming dislike of the idea of property ownership, dislike of (using the term anachronistically) Evangelical Christianity generally and Pentecostalism particulary, usage of ridiculous stereotypes thereof, hostility toward modern farming and portraying the displaced share-croppers as static, helpless victims.
I'm not saying that Steinbeck or Grapes is terrible or inferior. Frankly, I thought the opening chapters brilliant prose, albeit bordering on overdrawn for my taste.
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I was going to attemp to read Under The Dome even though Mr. King has a brutal case of BDS. I wish he would STFU and just write a dang story.
In a way, he shoots his arguments in the foot by the way he depicts his hero but I have to be vague as I don't want to spoil.
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Hmmm. I can see how Grapes might be seen as a Capitalist whackin' book. But academia hates Steinbeck. They have since he supported U.S. involvement in Vietnam. In fact, they've spent the last 40 years ripping ol' John a new one and trying to show his inadequacies as a writer to new generations of readers. Steinbeck wrote Grapes in pretty universal terms. It wasn't meant to rip on Unca' Sam, but he spent the rest of his life trying to distance himself from that accusation. But he's always been accused of being pretty heavy handed with ethnic stereotypes. In his defense, he claims he knew people like "Danny" the hero from Tortilla Flat, or the Italian fishermen in Cortez. I may have to re-read Grapes just to see how he handles the Oakies. If I remember right, they're poor.
Anyway, I hope you finish the book and enjoy it....although I can't see how...it's pretty fuggin' depressing. I'd go with the aforementioned Eden and Tortilla Flat. Everyone's already read Cannery Row and the Log from the Sea of Cortez.
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Hmmmmm ... I will gladly rethink Steinbeck. The only book I've read of his, to date, is The Pearl, involuntarily in high school. I mainly remember the hyper-analysis of symbolism that left me disliking much of what I read for the class that year. Glancing really briefly at his Wikipedia bio, I see he traveled in the post-WW2 USSR; I wonder if he perceived much more than he wrote.
19th Century Brit Lit has been more to my taste - Dickens, Thackeray, Austen, the Bronte sisters - voluntarily, not for school. Some of H. G. Wells's books are pretty good (though In the Days of the Comet is a truly dumb paean to a Socialism that could never be, in the form of a "history" of how things got that way). Yevgeny Zamyatin's We is really good. A. I. Solzhenitsyn's work - fiction and non-fiction - is really good. His Gulag Archipelago is, putting it minimally, an eye-opener; Chang and Halliday's recent Mao: The Unknown Story is as much or more so.
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HTTP: The Definitive Guide
(yeah, I'm kinda nutso that way)
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Just finished "In Harm's Way", by Doug Stanton ---- It's not about the movie of the same name starring John Wayne. It's a historical story of the sinking of the USS Indianapolis in shark invested waters near the end of WWII. The Indianapolis had just delivered the atomic bomb to be dropped on Hiroshima, then the Indy sailed toward Leyte to prepare for the invasion of Japan, when a Japanese submarine sunk her. The late Stephen Ambrose, IMO, one of the best authorities of WWII history said about this book --- "The most frightening book I've ever read".
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Just finished "In Harm's Way", by Doug Stanton 0---- It's not about the movie of the same name starring John Wayne. It's a historical story of the sinking of the USS Indianapolis in shark invested waters near the end of WWII. The Indianapolis had just delivered the atomic bomb to be dropped on Hiroshima, then the Indy sailed toward Leyte to prepare for the invasion of Japan, when a Japanese submarine sunk her. The late Stephen Ambrose, IMO, one of the best authorities of WWII history said about this book --- "The most frightening book I've ever read".
Ive read similar accounts of the Indy many years ago and it scared me to death to think of dying that way. I'll have to try and find that book. Thanks for the info.
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Finished another book last night - "Darker Than Night", by Tom Henderson
This one kept me glued, because it was the true account of gruesome murders that took place in the north woods of Michigan. When I lived in Michigan, we had a cabin right in the middle of the area; I have hunted, fished, vacationed there since the folks built the cabin in the late 1950's. I knew one of the persons that was interviewed and later testified in court. Time frame of book starts Nov. 1985, I moved from Michigan to Florida in July 1985, keeping the cabin until 1994 after my parents had died, but as recently as last summer, we still visit friends up there.
A quick book review; two deer hunters are killed, their bodies, vehicle, and possessions are never found, and even though everyone in the area is sure who killed them, because of cover-ups, it can't be proven for 18 years.
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Is it good? I have read all of them so far, but I did find T is for Trespass hard going.
I reading 2666 by Roberto Bolano (http://www.amazon.co.uk/2666-Roberto-Bolano/dp/0330447432/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260474603&sr=8-1). It's hard to describe, but great so far.
I missed the U book but was given T is for Trespass and could not put it down for long.
The one thing about these ABC books is the fact there is always one or two characters that remind me of someone I know or have known about.
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The last book I finished was Under the Dome by Stephen King, at his most long winded and mean spirited, still it was a real page turner.
I'm currently in the middle of Going Rogue by Sarah Palin.
Good morning....I was just curious as to your review of Going Rogue...I got it for Christmas and just now have gotten into her first few weeks of being Gov. I loved the first part of the book leading up to this, but now, am becoming quite bored, probably because I don't understand all of the political jargon....
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I can see how Grapes might be seen as a Capitalist whackin' book.
I came across this at the end of chapter 14 of Grapes[/i]:
If you who own the things that people must have could understand this, you might preserve yourself. If you could separate causes from results, if you could know that Paine, Marx, Jefferson, Lenin were results, not causes, you might survive. But that you cannot know. For the quality of owning freezes you forever into "I," and cuts you off forever from the "we."
That's a pretty healthy whack. To be fair, Grapes was published in 1939, and was probably in the process of writing and editing in 1937 or 1938. So Steinbeck probably had no idea of Stalin's 1937-1938 purges, and Stalin's late-20s--early-30s terror famine and de-kulakization were being white-washed by Pulitzer-winning shill-reports from Walter Duranty in the NYT. Steinbeck actually visited the USSR a decade later, and he may have come away with a better understanding of the Lenin-Stalin monster.
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Yes indeed. A lot of folks back then were snookered by the lefties, just like today. In fact, 20 years after Grapes came out, a lot of intellectuals and pseudo intellectuals were raked over the coals during the House Un American Activities circus for expressing sentiments like those of Tom Joad. Hind sight is always 20/20, and the road to Hell is always paved with good intentions.
But Steinbeck was definitely writing from the perspective of the little guy. The people who are too busy working for a living to either understand or care about the tortuous and arcane intricacies of international banking. It's an eloquent plea for humanity though. An incredibly naive and materialistic plea, but his hearts in the right place.
Chapter 14 in East of Eden diverges from the narrative for a remembrance from Steinbeck about his mother, Olive Hamilton. "None of the Hamilton daughters “were destined to become work-destroyed farm girls.†Olive chose to be a teacher, one of the most respected professions a young woman could have in her day.
So by the time Steinbeck churns out Eden, his perspective on the dignity of farm labor has changed somewhat.
All I'm saying is that Grapes is an O.K. book, but shouldn't be read too critically. Here, here's a cartoon I did years ago that pretty much sums it up.
(http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/142/l_926c513363a246e09dd77e52287170e7.jpg)
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Novels are like social and intellectual mileposts, both in the life of an author and of their society. Grapes is where Steinbeck and much of America's intellectual classes were at in 1939. A decade or two later, many had to be either deeply horrified or deeply in denial about what they supported in the USSR.
As you say, Steinbeck has a materialistic outlook. He also has curious, to me contradictory, attitudes: history and evolutionary change produce progress, what is right; mechanical progress and social change are wrong, and people are/should remain wedded to their agrarian ways of life. For me, working in Silicon Valley, such a static approach to my career is just impossible. I've had to partially re-educate myself and alter career directions multiple times since coming here nearly 31 years ago. I'm not complaining, just showing how my social reality is rather different from what Steinbeck portrays in Grapes. I've been around (and been) theologically conservative Christians my entire life, ranging from Lutherans to Baptists to charismatics (similar to Pentecostals). With that perspective, Steinbeck's portrayal of religious attitudes is a weirdly unreal mish-mosh of less-than-well-informed half-baked stereotypes. E.G. "Jehovists"? The Watchtower Society adopted the name "Jehovah's witnesses" in 1931. "Jehovists" would not have been a realistic name for the group; more realistic would have been "Bible Students," the name the Society had used for over 40 years. If I were speaking of a fantasy novel such as one of H. G. Wells's, considering such things would be silly. But Grapes purports to be a historical novel, concerned with real events: the Dust Bowl, created by poor farming techniques and (real) climate change; the consequent migration of people from the southern Great Plains to California. Oopses like "Jehovists" distract from appreciation of his work (kind of like a part of a History Channel bio of Churchill purporting to show RN battleships in the WW1 Dardanelles campaign; the distracting problem was that the ships shown had a unique design feature, and could only have been American or Argentine).
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You want BDS?? You really want BDS?
Look what I found for $1... my morbid curiosity got the best of me...
Richard A Clarke's "The Scorpions Gate".
The evil US Secretary of Defense is trying to invade Saudi Arabia at the behest of the Al Saud family to reinstall them into power. To do this the US will have to invade that peaceful and democratic new country, so we can get their oil instead of China. Meanwhile Iran is a real problem being ignored. Bush is slandered and the whole US government seems on the take except for some spies and admirals and reporters (all good liberals of course) who are the heroes of the story as well as former-Saudi rebels who now run that country. The SecDef is in league with Iran, China and the dethroned Saudi "Royal" family. Iraq kicked the US out and is now an Iranian puppet state.
The story is totally stupid of course. The man seems to know barely anything about the military and military equipment.
One of the worst books ever written I would say.
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(http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200511/1416509119.jpg) Just finished this one up last night.
Not quite sure if I'm going to pick up another one immediately, or work some more on mine. I found out over the holiday that my sister in law is working on a psychological thriller, and it would be nice to have a draft to exchange with her when she's done so we can proofread each other's work.
you and your sister could visit my site once in a while. *sniff* its so lonely... heh
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Just finished "In Harm's Way", by Doug Stanton ---- It's not about the movie of the same name starring John Wayne. It's a historical story of the sinking of the USS Indianapolis in shark invested waters near the end of WWII. The Indianapolis had just delivered the atomic bomb to be dropped on Hiroshima, then the Indy sailed toward Leyte to prepare for the invasion of Japan, when a Japanese submarine sunk her. The late Stephen Ambrose, IMO, one of the best authorities of WWII history said about this book --- "The most frightening book I've ever read".
My Dad had friends that were Bosun's Mates on that ship, often came to visit him.
Worse cussing and hollering was among them about the Captain of that ship. Everyone had different openions on the Captain, was all this his fault, or were the Japes to blame for a good kill.
You know the Captain endured disgrace for his decisions at the time for the rest of his life. I hope you now know that years after his death he has been cleared of all charges.
Horrid story, never heard a man mention what it was like in the water. But these guys had faced the most frightening thing in anyones life.
Have I read the book----NO---- I have no need to, Daddy's friends told it all as I curled up in a corner and listened to them watched their faces-----All I need to know.
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I may have to spread this across multiple posts, but I finished Grapes of Wrath last night. I'd rate it four :puke: s (got to leave room for the likes of Hitler or Joseph F. Rutherford). I mentioned in my first post that my Dad was a farmer. More specifically, he and all of his brothers and sisters were farmers (or married farmers), as was their Father. Even more specifically, they were farmers in CA's Central Valley, albeit well north of where Grapes is set. Their Father and they were land-owning farmers at the time Grapes is set (as were many other family and friends), and, to put it bluntly, the world of Grapes is utterly inconsistent with the men and women among whom I grew up. While I grew up some 3 decades after the time of Grapes, three decades could not efface the kind of cruelty and meanness Steinbeck describes, not in every single adult I knew.
I'll have to continue this later.
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Just put the book down and forget about it. It's one book. Steinbeck wrote plenty of others. Again, Log From the Sea of Cortez is pretty cool. So is East of Eden. Pick up Cannery Row, Sweet Thursday and Tortilla Flats for some fun Steinbeck.
And oh yeah, if books and whatnot are milestones...I'm pretty sure this was a big one for me.
(http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/33/l_2a882f463c4e4f848fe18dec59320e49.gif)
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Our family homeschooled our 3 munchkins from K-12. As our kids got into the Jr. High--High School age range, one of the things I taught them about fiction literature is that regardless of whether it's fantasy (e.g. The Hobbit or The Chronicles of Narnia) or historical fiction (e.g. The Winds of War), the author created their own world, with rules and "natural" happenings of the author's choosing. Thus, Grapes is a world of Steinbeck's creation. It is supposedly true to the central US of Dust Bowl times. As noted above and in previous posts, it has significant deviations and/or inconsistencies from that reality - significant in the sense that those things are much of the core of the story and characters.
Like an architect or an engineer or a master carpenter, an author of fiction creates something, a whole world. In some degree, such human creativity mirrors in miniature The Creator. A master craftsman - architect, engineer, carpenter, author, whatever - loves and respects their craft and what they create. Or at least they should. I haven't read as widely as I might in late 19th or 20th Century fiction, but Steinbeck, in Grapes at least, is one of two writers (Thomas Hardy being the other, especially Jude the Obscure) I've found who seem not to love the worlds they created and peopled. The central characters, the Joad family, are somewhere between cardboard cut-outs and fully developed characters. And the lack of full development seems to be because they are set up to be knocked down. They are expendable pawns bearing Steibeck's message, not worth the effort of full and credible development. Love or hate Dickens, he developed and respected those who peopled his world: Oliver Twist and Mr. Bumble; David Copperfield and Uriah Heep; Mr. Micawber, Mr. Murdstone and Betsy Trotwood; Philip Pirrip and Mrs. Havisham. Even Upton Sinclair's Socialist tract, The Jungle showed greater respect for the family of his central character, Jurgis! Whatever Steinbeck's work was, before or after, Grapes is not a masterwork.
One of the supposed rules of fiction is that the author should show, not tell. Let the story sustain and communicate your message. In practical terms, what reader of a story wants the story interrupted by a lecture?! This is a, IMO, flaw that makes The Hunchback of Notre Dame marginally readable, and Les Miserables almost unreadable. Is the anti-war message of All Quiet on the Western Front any less clear for lack of a lecture? Is Dickens's condemnation of England's poor laws in Oliver Twist any less clear for the lack of a 20- or 40-page dissertation inveighing against the poor laws? Somewhere between 1/4 to 1/3 of Grapes is chapters explicating Steinbeck's views of what was happening in those parts of American society and history. Come on! Is Steinbeck too unskilled as a writer to weave his views into the story? Or does Steinbeck fear that his readers are too stupid to perceive and understand what he is saying through his story?!
In sum, in Grapes, Steinbeck doesn't respect history, the world he created or his readers. And I find that all the more frustrating, because, as I posted above, there are some truly excellent bits of prose throughout Grapes - the whole of which is much less than the sum of Grapes' parts.
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Just put the book down and forget about it.
As I posted above, "... I finished Grapes of Wrath last night." Maybe I'm weird, but I do see the value of understanding where people I disagree with are coming from. Sometimes it helps me avoid making a fool of myself. Sometimes it saves a lot of time in wheel-spinning discussion. Sometimes it helps me get to important roots of matters. That's why I read Grapes. That's why I read All Quiet on the Western Front. That's why, in a different context, I read the ravings of Joseph F. Rutherford. And why I read the Qur'an (in English translation).
This AM I started Ann Coulter's Godless. I'm not a big Ann Coulter fan, but it's going to be interesting to read more than just snippets seized upon by those who hate her. Her habit of nesting one-liner zingers in an otherwise thoughtful sentence is interesting.
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Man, you're a glutton for punishment. I understand what you're saying though. If I ever get a novel published I'll send you a copy so you can rip it to shreds.
I hope you get around to reading some Phillip K. D!ck, he's been described as the American Borges. Maybe so, maybe not, but he's readable.
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Kinda also depends on what you mean by lecture.
While I disagree with the obvious liberal leanings of John D. MacDonald (great novelist, though the critics had never really been kind to him), sometimes a story needs a bit of a break, to summarize maybe or just to take a deep breath.
MacDonald would launch into a diatribe that alternatively captured the human condition vice political folly. It made for some rollicking reading, though some would, I imagine, call his "story break" a lecture.
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Examples of lectures ...
The Jungle has a ~chapter-long (not a short chapter) lecture on socialism. Atlas Shrugged has a couple of longish (2+ pages) dissertations on charity and morals. Les Miserable has a 50--100-page (or more?) lecture on the battle of Waterloo, and another lengthy lecture (20-50 pages, I think) on the "history" of monasticism in France. They all kinda-sorta fit in the story (i.e. not utterly irrelevant), but are so lengthy as to detract from the story. I suppose personal taste and expectations are significant, and some one somewhere in the past century and a half actually liked Hugo's French-perspective mini-history-book on Waterloo. I assume they cut it from the Broadway play.
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Examples of lectures ...
The Jungle has a ~chapter-long (not a short chapter) lecture on socialism. Atlas Shrugged has a couple of longish (2+ pages) dissertations on charity and morals. Les Miserable has a 50--100-page (or more?) lecture on the battle of Waterloo, and another lengthy lecture (20-50 pages, I think) on the "history" of monasticism in France. They all kinda-sorta fit in the story (i.e. not utterly irrelevant), but are so lengthy as to detract from the story. I suppose personal taste and expectations are significant, and some one somewhere in the past century and a half actually liked Hugo's French-perspective mini-history-book on Waterloo. I assume they cut it from the Broadway play.
Back in the day when there was no TV, radio and films it probably made some sense.