DUmmy casually slips in the Fermi Paradox...eyeroll

[BannedFromDU]

Star Member mainer (11,516 posts)

I've been fretting more and more about the Fermi Paradox

Basically: there must be alien life in the universe, so where is everyone?
One explanation: they’ve all annihilated themselves. With advancing knowledge comes nuclear capability. Are advanced civilizations capable of resisting the temptation to use those weapons or is it inevitable they all destroy themselves?

All it takes is a single Putin, who would rather destroy the world than accept defeat.

Sorry to share my gloom, but I fear all the goodness within humanity seems unable to counteract the evil that also resides in us. I look at Ukraine and the rise of Trump and his MAGATS and I am just grateful I lived in a time before the annihilation.

If by "Fermi Paradox" you mean "finding your anal beads," I believe you. Otherwise, yeah right...


So this genius DUmmy, trying to drop knowledge the way DFW drops names, asserts that every civilization in the universe annihilated itself using nuclear bombs. Which means, of course, that every civilization is exactly like this one. How imaginative...even Star Wars had a few ****ing Wookies hanging around.

So they do their usual, and retread old Twilight Zone and Outer Limits episodes:

Star Member Stuart G (33,438 posts)
1. No....Aliens have not ..."annihilated themselves"..They have been here, taken a look, and concluded:

that these ..."Humans are much too dangerous to have contact with"....

. ........."Just look at their history...see what they have done too themselves!!..Why deal with these fools?"

.That is it, and that is all..!!! .
..................and if these aliens have the intelligence to exceed the speed of light to get here,

..................then they also have the intelligence to stay away from ....humans!

     Wow, is it 1964 already?

     DUmmies: any civilization that has mastered space travel across distances we cannot fathom is going to be far too advanced to give two shiny shits about us 'being destructive'. Alternatively, any aliens who have different, possibly non-existent concepts of time and distance probably don't have any idea what "destructive' means.


     The whole thread is just a bunch of 1970's longhair 2am AM Radio bullshit. Coming back over here, I felt like I was climbing out of a Volkswagen and I needed to shave down my sideburns. Live long and **** off, DUmmies. 

[USA4ME]

If aliens from outer space ever come and we show them our civilization and they make fun of it, we should say we were just kidding, that this isn't really our civilization, but a gag we hoped they would like. Then we tell them to come back in twenty years to see our real civilization. After that, we start a crash program of coming up with an impressive new civilization. Either that, or just shoot down the aliens as they're waving good-bye.

 ~Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts

.

[landofconfusion80]

Life is one of two things. It is either infinitely common or infinitely rare. There were many many things that had to go exactly right for us to exist. Our planet had to be a very exact distance from the sun. Rotation, speed both factor in as well. The atmosphere had to be a certain way, two cells had to get moving, water needed to exist. Add it all up and it would be an absolute miracle to have life exist at all. That paradox is a fallacy

[Drafe Hoblin]

Evolution will have us creating 'artificial suns' and other survival-tools.  Not running-around chasing offworld civilizations.  If an offworld civilization is throwing virgins into volcanoes to appease some 'higher power', the DUmmies would automatically copy it. 

That isn't how God set it up, but His attitude is like:  " Okay... if that's what you want to do with your time, go for it. "

[FlaGator]

They say they don't believe in things they can't see, thus there is no God, yet they accept the existence of alien civilizations when none has been detected or seen. Using existing evidence we only know of one planet with life. One can not extrapolate the existence of life elsewhere based on these limited facts. We could play the numbers game and say the odds are with all the stars and planets life has to exist somewhere but with our limited knowledge, we can't really calculate the odds. There are lots of variables we don't know the answer to that we need to make the calculations.

Personally, I see more evidence for the existence of a Creator than I do for alien life. With that said I'm not willing to exclude the possibility of extraterrestrial life. Maybe it is just really rare and the distances are too. If faster than light travel is a non-starter then the point is moot.

[ADsOutburst]

1. No....Aliens have not ..."annihilated themselves"..They have been here, taken a look, and concluded:

that these ..."Humans are much too dangerous to have contact with"....

. ........."Just look at their history...see what they have done too themselves!!..Why deal with these fools?"

.That is it, and that is all..!!! .
..................and if these aliens have the intelligence to exceed the speed of light to get here,

..................then they also have the intelligence to stay away from ....humans!

Oh look, another person bashing humanity with the old "This is why aliens won't talk to us" crap. There should be a term for this... hominid shaming?

[BannedFromDU]

They say they don't believe in things they can't see, thus there is no God, yet they accept the existence of alien civilizations when none has been detected or seen. Using existing evidence we only know of one planet with life. One can not extrapolate the existence of life elsewhere based on these limited facts. We could play the numbers game and say the odds are with all the stars and planets life has to exist somewhere but with our limited knowledge, we can't really calculate the odds. There are lots of variables we don't know the answer to that we need to make the calculations.

Personally, I see more evidence for the existence of a Creator than I do for alien life. With that said I'm not willing to exclude the possibility of extraterrestrial life. Maybe it is just really rare and the distances are too. If faster than light travel is a non-starter then the point is moot.

      During the Bush years, it seemed like there were a bunch of them who wrote (or who claimed to write) science fiction. Every single setting was basically our political system mapped onto space. I assume every plot had two elements: 1. A young hero (or a grizzled old retired veteran) rising up to the challenge of defending the galaxy from Darth Cheney, and 2. that young hero getting laid.  I miss those more creative DUmp days. Now we just have a bunch of whiny old people.

[SVPete]

Meh. Why worry about things galaxies away from what little I can control? As song writer Larry Norman said in "UFO":

And if there's life on other planets
Then I'm sure that He must know
And He's been there once already
And has died to save their souls

Or, as in C. S. Lewis' Perelandra maybe ETs never fell and won't get involved in matters terrestrial (or may not know the "Silent Planet" exists).

[enslaved1]

I've long held that the fact mankind hasn't eradicated himself from the planet, either by ignorance or arrogance, is one of the finest proofs that there is a God who has a plan for us. 

As far as aliens, I think the Bible really indicates man's uniqueness in all Creation.  Not an absolute definitive answer is given, but the overall vibe is we are it, other than spiritual beings (angels and demons).  It's interesting that many UFO/alien encounters and observations see things that break the laws of physics.  Could be they are beings that aren't limited by those laws?  Just a theory of mine. 

[FunkyZero]

I've long held that the fact mankind hasn't eradicated himself from the planet, either by ignorance or arrogance, is one of the finest proofs that there is a God who has a plan for us. 

As far as aliens, I think the Bible really indicates man's uniqueness in all Creation.  Not an absolute definitive answer is given, but the overall vibe is we are it, other than spiritual beings (angels and demons).  It's interesting that many UFO/alien encounters and observations see things that break the laws of physics.  Could be they are beings that aren't limited by those laws?  Just a theory of mine.

I'm abandoning the DUmmie bashing for just long enough to weight on on this topic, it's an interest of mine.
In my guess-timation that is based on wild and unproven ideas about pretty much everything, I think that other life does exist, but it is not nearly as common as we would like to believe. I also don't think we will ever encounter them, IF space and time behave like we currently think it does. The universe IS a grand design in my opinion. God created the perfect system that is just simple enough to endure, but just complex enough to do what is required. The distances are vast, almost beyond the capabilities of our imaginations, and I don't think we'll ever conquer that. It is by design... wild theories regarding parallel dimensions aside... which is, by the way, a somewhat interesting theory among many in that field, not just sci-fi movies. We are finding exoplanets by the thousands now, and coming up short finding any that fall into our idea of a reasonable life sustaining system. Of course, our methods are still crude and observations are based on a huge helping of assumptions since we can't really measure much from these distances.
I study this stuff as a lame hobby, not in great detail, but just enough to understand the current theories and whatnot. And from everything I've seen, the science behind all of it makes me an even stronger believer in God. I mean, some people have gone so far to disprove Gods existence that they believe in a "big bang" that created everything from nothing.  Sounds exactly like God's work to me.
And regarding the other topic of aliens visiting us...  I have my doubts that they can even get here, but if they've figured that out, they are probably smart enough to calculate that the risk of interfacing with unknown species is a risk that brings little or no reward for beings that would already be that advanced. Why would they take such a risk? If they needed something that is here, something they couldn't acquire elsewhere (not probable), they would just level this place and take it.
Anyway, that's how I would view the entire thing from the outside looking in.

[Aristotelian]

I think that we can all agree that if aliens arrive with hostile intent, then it will all be Trump's fault...

[Aristotelian]

I study this stuff as a lame hobby, not in great detail, but just enough to understand the current theories and whatnot. And from everything I've seen, the science behind all of it makes me an even stronger believer in God. I mean, some people have gone so far to disprove Gods existence that they believe in a "big bang" that created everything from nothing.  Sounds exactly like God's work to me.

Though he didn't use the term 'Big Bang' the theory was first proposed by a Catholic Priest who was also a physicist (Msgr. Georges Lemaître). Personally speaking, I'm not entirely sure how one can see a principled difference between a 'Big Bang' and 'and there was light' - they seem to be describing the same event.

[FlaGator]

The more I think about this alien thing the more reasons I find not to worry about it even if it is true. First of all, we would probably not be able to communicate with them. Even if they used sound as a means of conversation the basis of their language and grammar would probably be so different that we could never decipher their language nor could they ours. What if they communicate by smell, changing their skin color, or using some sense we don't even know about? First, we would have the same issue with language and then the use of a different sense on top of that.

The most common scenario, invasion, makes no sense. Why would they invade? Harvest resources? It would be easier and more profitable to mine asteroids for materials. Need of a food source? Because we evolved differently from the alien's evolutionary path, life on our world would most likely be non-editable or even poisonous. They viewed us as dangerous? If they can get here across the vastness of space what technology do we have that could possibly be a threat to them? If life really is that rare then they would probably want to preserve life on Earth for study and destroying things would be the furthest thing from their mind.

Honestly, I am more concerned about AI that we created as a scarier possiblity than alien contact or invasion. I find that more terrifying than the possibility of nuclear war. I think I'd rather be burnt to a crisp than being used as a force slave for an advanced AI system.

[Karin]

but I fear all the goodness within humanity

Ya know, Captain...

[FunkyZero]

The more I think about this alien thing the more reasons I find not to worry about it even if it is true. First of all, we would probably not be able to communicate with them. Even if they used sound as a means of conversation the basis of their language and grammar would probably be so different that we could never decipher their language nor could they ours. What if they communicate by smell, changing their skin color, or using some sense we don't even know about? First, we would have the same issue with language and then the use of a different sense on top of that.

The most common scenario, invasion, makes no sense. Why would they invade? Harvest resources? It would be easier and more profitable to mine asteroids for materials. Need of a food source? Because we evolved differently from the alien's evolutionary path, life on our world would most likely be non-editable or even poisonous. They viewed us as dangerous? If they can get here across the vastness of space what technology do we have that could possibly be a threat to them? If life really is that rare then they would probably want to preserve life on Earth for study and destroying things would be the furthest thing from their mind.

Honestly, I am more concerned about AI that we created as a scarier possiblity than alien contact or invasion. I find that more terrifying than the possibility of nuclear war. I think I'd rather be burnt to a crisp than being used as a force slave for an advanced AI system.

yea that's pretty much my summary as well. There is nothing on this planet that is unique except for the species that spawned here.
Heck, there's more water and the same old elements in far greater amounts in uninhabited comets and asteroids. The only reason an alien would ever come here is plain ol curiosity. Hell, we don't even have any hydrogen left... we have to manually create one of the most basic elements in the universe. Theres nothing here except potential exposure to democrats, something we really should warn them about before they land.

[enslaved1]

I'm abandoning the DUmmie bashing for just long enough to weight on on this topic, it's an interest of mine.
In my guess-timation that is based on wild and unproven ideas about pretty much everything, I think that other life does exist, but it is not nearly as common as we would like to believe. I also don't think we will ever encounter them, IF space and time behave like we currently think it does. The universe IS a grand design in my opinion. God created the perfect system that is just simple enough to endure, but just complex enough to do what is required. The distances are vast, almost beyond the capabilities of our imaginations, and I don't think we'll ever conquer that. It is by design... wild theories regarding parallel dimensions aside... which is, by the way, a somewhat interesting theory among many in that field, not just sci-fi movies. We are finding exoplanets by the thousands now, and coming up short finding any that fall into our idea of a reasonable life sustaining system. Of course, our methods are still crude and observations are based on a huge helping of assumptions since we can't really measure much from these distances.
I study this stuff as a lame hobby, not in great detail, but just enough to understand the current theories and whatnot. And from everything I've seen, the science behind all of it makes me an even stronger believer in God. I mean, some people have gone so far to disprove Gods existence that they believe in a "big bang" that created everything from nothing.  Sounds exactly like God's work to me.
And regarding the other topic of aliens visiting us...  I have my doubts that they can even get here, but if they've figured that out, they are probably smart enough to calculate that the risk of interfacing with unknown species is a risk that brings little or no reward for beings that would already be that advanced. Why would they take such a risk? If they needed something that is here, something they couldn't acquire elsewhere (not probable), they would just level this place and take it.
Anyway, that's how I would view the entire thing from the outside looking in.

I don't think it is impossible that God did make other life in the universe, it just seems unlikely based on how the Bible reads.  I agree that if it's out there, we are not likely to encounter any of it.  The issue definitely is interesting discussion material, but does not, IMHO fall into essential theology, so disagreement is allowed.   

[FunkyZero]

I don't think it is impossible that God did make other life in the universe, it just seems unlikely based on how the Bible reads.  I agree that if it's out there, we are not likely to encounter any of it.  The issue definitely is interesting discussion material, but does not, IMHO fall into essential theology, so disagreement is allowed.   

I'd love to argue with you about The Bible, but first I'd have to read it. Then it would take me another lifetime to figure out what I read. heh
I'm really bad about that. All told, I've probably only read like 1/4 of it. I get frustrated pretty easy because I flat can't understand a lot of what I read in it.
I know a lot of stuff just from going to church, but I really struggle reading it on my own.