"Conservative Bible" draws ire from those who cheered on the "green Bible"

[MrsSmith]

Had Jesus of Nazareth said that believing in him was the only requirement for salvation and left it at that, the same way you left it at that, then no one would have learned about grace, repentance, or forgiveness. Of course, Jesus had the sense to elaborate.

And yet, He said exactly that.  In fact, I've quoted Him.  Over...and over...and over.  It's not my terminology, it's not my theology, it's not my idea.  I'm sorry you're having such a hard time understanding.  

[The Night Owl]

And yet, He said exactly that.  In fact, I've quoted Him.  Over...and over...and over.  It's not my terminology, it's not my theology, it's not my idea.  I'm sorry you're having such a hard time understanding.  

Yes, Jesus talked about believing in him but he also talked about grace, forgiveness, and repentance, did he not?

[dutch508]

Hey, Dutch. I don't want to butt in on your convo with Wilbur but before you two go at it further I would like to know something. If prohibitions against things like murder, robbery, rape, etc. make sense to you then why do you have trouble believing that such prohibitions are the product of human reason? Do you honestly believe that humans couldn't have figured out on their own that allowing things like murder, robbery, rape, etc. causes insuperable problems for society? I mean, it's not like we're talking about ancient people figuring out how to go to the Moon. We're talking about people figuring out basic rules for getting along. It's not rocket science... even by ancient standards.

Ah, now we are getting to it.
What seperates us from the lower animals? What is the difference between us us and apes? Societies of greatapes exist in Africa with many of the same aspects that human society has. Yet they haven't advanced in millions of years. Whales have a language as great as, if not greater than man's. Yet, whales haven't built anything.
So what is it that seperates us from them? Somehow we figured out all of this. How did that happen?

[MrsSmith]

Yes, Jesus talked about the importance of believing in him but he also talked about grace, forgiveness, and repentance, did he not?

Are you still refusing to read it for yourself?  


Here, a little more context:

The New Birth

1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews;
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
9 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?
11 "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.
12 "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
13 "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

[The Night Owl]

Are you still refusing to read it for yourself?  

Okay. You want to go that way?

Matthew 6:14-15 (King James Version)

 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Get it? If you don't forgive others for their trespasses then God won't forgive you for your trespasses. If God doesn't forgive you for your trespasses then your salvation is toast.

[rubliw]

What is there about the word "quote" that you don't understand?  Want a definition?  If it helps any, I am not the originator of the salvation theory or the use of the word "believe."  

Martin Luther was the originator of your salvation theory - and its a heresy in the eyes of orthodoxy, in large part because of the Epistle of St James.  Again - your beef is with orthodoxy on this point, not me.   I'm not making the argument here, I'm simply drawing attention to the fact that, well... when it comes right down to it, your opinion of Jesus' words is the minority view and certainly doesnt share any special privelidge over the orthodoxy or other theologies on the matter - so maybe you should keep that in mind while you criticize others for not conceding that your theology is an obvious fact.

[The Night Owl]

Ah, now we are getting to it.
What seperates us from the lower animals? What is the difference between us us and apes? Societies of greatapes exist in Africa with many of the same aspects that human society has. Yet they haven't advanced in millions of years. Whales have a language as great as, if not greater than man's. Yet, whales haven't built anything.
So what is it that seperates us from them? Somehow we figured out all of this. How did that happen?

What separates humans from animals? The ability to reason.

[SOFTBALL#4GRAMA]

WOW, it took me a long time to read over all of these posts...Thanks to you all, I won't have to study my Bible so diligently this evening....And I am just going to pray for those that do not want to believe there is a Jesus Christ, and yet, seem to know all about him...Why is this?? Me as a firm believer do not know nearly as much as you non-believers...

He was condemned all of his short life, and yet, he still loved all of us children that he died for....Meaning you and me...I know that someday in your worst possible moment, you will reach out to him, whether you want to believe it or not, you will, and he will extend his hand to you in kind....Until that time all of you poor lost souls who don't want to believe, or pretend not to believe, and just like to mimic those of us who do, thanks for strengthening my undying faith in the one and only Savior sleep well....

[dutch508]

What separates humans from animals? The ability to reason.

and how did that happen? a singularity in evolution?

[MrsSmith]

Okay. You want to go that way?

Matthew 6:14-15 (King James Version)

 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Get it? If you don't forgive others for their trespasses then God won't forgive you for your trespasses. If God doesn't forgive you for your trespasses then your salvation is toast.

And if you believe in Christ, then you will forgive others.

[Carl]

Martin Luther was the originator of your salvation theory - and its a heresy in the eyes of orthodoxy, in large part because of the Epistle of St James.  Again - your beef is with orthodoxy on this point, not me.   I'm not making the argument here, I'm simply drawing attention to the fact that, well... when it comes right down to it, your opinion of Jesus' words is the minority view and certainly doesnt share any special privelidge over the orthodoxy or other theologies on the matter - so maybe you should keep that in mind while you criticize others for not conceding that your theology is an obvious fact.

Perhaps Martin Luther simply rediscovered the simple truth to His words.

[rubliw]

back to my question- where did the concept of laws come from?

Human brains, struggling (and often through trial and error - even today) to discover better ways to build societies.  

You are hung up on tearing down Christianity

Not particularly - I'm defending the idea that there's nothing unbelievable about the idea that man invented law.  We also invented a lot of other things, like calculus, and philosphy.

yet have no concept of where the laws of the bible come from.

I'm no scholar on ancient history, but I am familiar with the basic outline of the beginnings of law.  

We do know where the words of Jesus come from. His words lay down the foundation of modern law. But there is a long trail togo before getting there.

Debatable - sure, there are Biblical influences in modern law, but the case is vastly overstated by propogandizing Christians.  Our law is undeniably pagan as well.  Then of course, its also heavily influenced by philosophy of all stripes.

Now, you could say all this just happened, the same way man just happened.

Law probably happened in the same way that every upgrade to human life has - we suffered, and sought out practical solutions to remedy that suffering.

In fact, that is what you are saying. Yet, withoutfaith, there is nothing. Have fun with that.

Not really sure what to say to that.  Things certainly still exist whether a person with faith does or not.

[dutch508]

Human brains, struggling (and often through trial and error - even today) to discover better ways to build societies. 

Not particularly - I'm defending the idea that there's nothing unbelievable about the idea that man invented law.  We also invented a lot of other things, like calculus, and philosphy.

I'm no scholar on ancient history, but I am familiar with the basic outline of the beginnings of law. 

Debatable - sure, there are Biblical influences in modern law, but the case is vastly overstated by propogandizing Christians.  Our law is undeniably pagan as well.  Then of course, its also heavily influenced by philosophy of all stripes.

Law probably happened in the same way that every upgrade to human life has - we suffered, and sought out practical solutions to remedy that suffering.

Not really sure what to say to that.  Things certainly still exist whether faith is present or not.

then there is no point in talking to you.

[MrsSmith]

Martin Luther was the originator of your salvation theory - and its a heresy in the eyes of orthodoxy, in large part because of the Epistle of St James.  Again - your beef is with orthodoxy on this point, not me.   I'm not making the argument here, I'm simply drawing attention to the fact that, well... when it comes right down to it, your opinion of Jesus' words is the minority view and certainly doesnt share any special privelidge over the orthodoxy or other theologies on the matter - so maybe you should keep that in mind while you criticize others for not conceding that your theology is an obvious fact.

Jesus was the originator of the salvation "theory"...if it can be called a theory.  It is not my beef, my opinion, or my orthodoxy.  So sorry, if you don't like it, you're "yelling" at the wrong person.  

[rubliw]

Jesus was the originator of the salvation "theory"...if it can be called a theory.  It is not my beef, my opinion, or my orthodoxy.  So sorry, if you don't like it, you're "yelling" at the wrong person.  

Pretty sure the orthodox consider Jesus the origin of their salvation theory as well. 

[MrsSmith]

Pretty sure the orthodox consider Jesus the origin of their salvation theory as well. 

Cool

[The Night Owl]

WOW, it took me a long time to read over all of these posts...Thanks to you all, I won't have to study my Bible so diligently this evening....And I am just going to pray for those that do not want to believe there is a Jesus Christ, and yet, seem to know all about him...Why is this?? Me as a firm believer do not know nearly as much as you non-believers...

He was condemned all of his short life, and yet, he still loved all of us children that he died for....Meaning you and me...I know that someday in your worst possible moment, you will reach out to him, whether you want to believe it or not, you will, and he will extend his hand to you in kind....Until that time all of you poor lost souls who don't want to believe, or pretend not to believe, and just like to mimic those of us who do, thanks for strengthening my undying faith in the one and only Savior sleep well....

This whole idea that we're born in debt to a cosmic overlord is just a ploy to enslave us to the idea that we need a savior. It couldn't be more obvious.

So, no thanks. I'll have no part of this cosmic protection racket or any grotesque human sacrifice.

[Flame]

This whole idea that we're born in debt to a cosmic overlord is just a ploy to enslave us to the idea that we need a savior. It couldn't be more obvious.

So, no thanks. I'll have no part of this cosmic protection racket or any grotesque human sacrifice.

We aren't BORN in debt...we just get that way pretty quickly.  ANY sin keeps us from God, and aside from one man, nobody is sin-free.

[MrsSmith]

This whole idea that we're born in debt to a cosmic overlord is just a ploy to enslave us to the idea that we need a savior. It couldn't be more obvious.

So, no thanks. I'll have no part of this cosmic protection racket or any grotesque human sacrifice.

So, I know this changes the subject somewhat...but how do you justify remaining in a country that grants you freedom on the basis of the grotesque human sacrifices our military volunteers to risk?

[The Night Owl]

So, I know this changes the subject somewhat...but how do you justify remaining in a country that grants you freedom on the basis of the grotesque human sacrifices our military volunteers to risk?

There is no comparison. Our soldiers sacrifice themselves for just and noble causes. Jesus sacrificed himself to appease a god which probably doesn't exist.

[MrsSmith]

There is no comparison. Our soldiers sacrifice themselves for just and noble causes. Jesus sacrificed himself to appease a god which probably doesn't exist.

Jesus IS God.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

There is no comparison. Our soldiers sacrifice themselves for just and noble causes. Jesus sacrificed himself to appease a god which probably doesn't exist.

I don't sacrifice shit. My intent is to kill as many of the "others" or assist in their killing as far as my skills and station permit.

Dying and discomfort are merely occupational hazards that I accept as the cost of doing business.

Would that you take the term "just and noble causes" to one of my other threads and objectively define WTF it is you're talking about.

[The Night Owl]

I don't sacrifice shit. My intent is to kill as many of the "others" or assist in their killing as far as my skills and station permit.

Dying and discomfort are merely occupational hazards that I accept as the cost of doing business.

If you don't consider dying for a just cause a sacrifice that's your business.

Would that you take the term "just and noble causes" to one of my other threads and objectively define WTF it is you're talking about.

Just and noble causes are causes worth fighting for. What is so hard to understand?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Dance, little monkey. Dance.

[The Night Owl]

Dance, little monkey. Dance.

I prefer the term primate.