The hyper wealthy do not deserve their wealth

[ScubaGuy]

The true nature of the DUmmies exposed once again.

One poster (datan) was already banned on this thread and his comments have been scrubbed.

Dummies and their wealth envy

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 12:46 AM
Original message
Okay, here's the thing: The hyper wealthy do not deserve their wealth
   
I've been discussing this a lot with my college brothers and sisters lately. And we have come to the conclusion that any annual personal income exceeding $500,000 is really unnecessary. That goes for any career field.

I don't care if you're a CEO or an ER doctor or a lawyer at a big firm. It doesn't matter what you do. There is no possible way that you deserve to make more than half a million dollars a year. And I feel I'm being more than generous. Especially when there are countries where people live on less than $1,000 A YEAR.

So what does that say about people making tens or hundreds of millions of dollars a year?

It means they're ripping us off. It's state sanctioned theft.

They do not deserve their millions, let alone their billions.

So I find it highly amusing when these idiots in the public sphere talk about how the rich are being punished by taxes.

There is literally no one in the top 5 percent in any position to be complaining about taxes.

Our tax problems would be history if we capped annual personal income at $500,000. And $500,000 is more than a comfortable income. You will never have to take the bus or apply for food stamps or go bankrupt because you cannot afford insurance premiums. You can still drive your absurdly expensive luxury sedan while you smoke cuban cigars and sip on 100 year old whisky.

I got news for you DUmmie, $500K is not hyper wealthy.  It may appear that way to you and your loser buddies majoring in wymens studies but I and millions of others like me have made a comfortable living from those nasty, wealthy people.

datan (59 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. ok
   
what if that lawyer saves a company $10m in a lawsuit? Would that company be willing to pay $1m to that lawyer?
What if that hedge fund manager makes his client $100m in a year? Would those clients be willing to pay $10m to that hedge fund manager?
What if that property developer puts in their own capital to develop a mall worth $50m. Does he deserve to earn millions on that project?
What if a CEO turns around a struggling company and creates $50m in value? Does he deserve that $5m (in stock)?

The thing is: for all these examples here, the people who pay them (shareholders, companies, clients) are happy with their deal and usually have already agreed how much share of the pie they are entitled to.

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. NO ONE DESERVES 10 MILLION DOLLARS.
   
I don't care if you're Jesus Christ.

datan (59 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. um
   
but if the people paying them think they're worth $10m, why is it your business what you think they should be paid?

It's his business because he thinks that extra cash should be his.

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. It's thieves giving each other gifts.
   
Why is it my business? Because this is my planet just as much as theirs. It's my civilization just as much as theirs. It's my country just as much as theirs.

Have you ever heard the phrase "property is theft"? Well it's true. And we are all thieves.

Ok comrade now we know where you're coming from.

datan (59 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. ok
   
so you're advocating no public or private ownership of property or resources?

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yes, that would be ideal.
   

datan (59 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. ok
   
good luck pursuading the other 99.999999% of the world who like to own property.

I guess you could try to set up your own political party to try to change the law. oh wait, doesn't the Constitution explicitly respect property rights?

guess you'll need to change the Constitution.

There already is a party for that and the democrats are trying to join up with them.

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. I really don't care that much about the constitution to be honest.
   
It's a document written several hundred years ago. It has flaws.

BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. Most people care about your views on property about as much as you care about the Constitution.
   

Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. That's a winning campaign slogan.
   
"I don't care much about the Constitution. Vote for me."

Good luck.

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 02:36 AM
Original message
I'm not running for public office. So I'm not that worried.
   

My guess is that you're only worries about where your next supply of pot and Cheetos comes from.

Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. So you believe that people
   
paying $4.00 plus for a gallon of gas do so because they think the oil companies are worth it? I don't think so.

They need the gas. They pay the price because they have no choice. They are being taken advantage of. And the oil companies are raking in the profits. Without the astronomical profits, the people would live a more comfortable and better balanced life while the oil company CEOs would continue living exactly the same. The only thing that changes for the filthy rich is the excess.

The oil companies aren't making as much per gallon as Uncle Sam is.

datan (59 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. they are paying
   
$4 per gallon of gas precisely because they think that going with gas is better than going without gas.

and gas is a finite resource that we are going to run out of some day.

it's not going to get better

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
35. You need to take an elementary economics class.
   
Seriously.

Now that's funny. 

This clown thinks capping income at $500K is good idea and he tells others that they should take an economics class.

datan (59 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. you mean like
   
how the marginal utility of having that gallon of gas in the tank is greater than the margin cost of that $4?

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. Price setting only applies for non-essential products and services.
   
Gasoline is not a luxury item. It's a necessity. It therefore could be at almost any price and people would have to shell out the cash.

That's not a representation of supply and demand.

datan (59 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #41
49. yup
   
and the economic reason they shell out the cash is that it still beats the alternative

paying $4 / gallon of gas beats the alternative of not getting to work.

and it's still supply and demand -- right under the classic example of elasticity of demand (have you covered it yet?)

He was probably to stoned to show up for class that day.

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. It's not that it beats the alternative. It's that there is no alternative.
   
Gasoline is a vital product. Just like electricity.

It is not subject to the same "rules" as non-essential goods and services.

We aren't talking about a ****ing yo-yo.

Without gasoline, our economy would literally come to a grinding halt.

It's perfectly inelastic.

And even beyond that, the price of gasoline is subject to manipulation by commodities trading of unrefined oil and government subsidization.

Guess what, without capital investment the economy would not only come to a halt it would crash and burn.

ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. The lawyer that saved the company $10m...
   
...likely used loopholes to do it -- i.e. took advantage of inherently unfair laws.

The hedge fund manager who makes his client $100m likely used unfair practices to do so.

The property developer put $50m of capital raised through others -- don't worry, they didn't risk their own fancy homes.

And CEOs as often get $5m, or $50m in stock after they've run a company into the ground.

The thing is, when the whole game is rigged, the rosy arguments you put forward here no longer resonate in any positive way.

We no longer reward people for true creativity and solid contributions IMO. Rather, we reward them for being ruthless money grubbing bastards.

Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #19
32. Looks like some kind of a Mega Ponzi scheme, isn't it?
   
Where does the 'Interests' portion come from in the Capitalist system?

It has to come from somewhere, but it doesn't exist anywhere.

Dummies and economics are funny.  They have zero concept of how wealth is created, it's not a zero sum game DUmmie.

moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
23. Fine.
   
While you're at it you might also want to consider doing away with inheritance. Then nobody would be born on third base (think George W. Bush, Donald Trump, and the Koch brothers) and amassing enormous excessive wealth would be rather pointless because it could not be passed on to heirs.

dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
29. There goes the lottery and jackpots. How's about huge punitive settlements?
   
Investments capped too? What about Bieber? One concert and he is done for the year? Boxers have one fight? Baseball players play for a month maybe?

This would probably cut down the volume of entertainment a lot. How would you put together a blockbuster movie with huge downside and hardly any upside?

Wouldn't this make big projects obsolete?

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. I don't care about any of those people. Like literally none of them.
   
Give another stab at it.

I just want my free ride.

dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. Nothing you spend your free time on generates more than $500,000?
   
No movies no music no sports no tv shows? Nothing?

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. I bet a lot of what I spend goes to millionaires. That doesn't make it right.
   
That merely proves the argument that rich people make obscene and unjustified amounts of money.

dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. My point is what if they only worked til they made $500,000?
   
Wouldnt you miss watching them, listening to them, etc? Why should they work more than a month if they already max out their income?

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Yeah, I'm sure I would miss them. That still doesn't justify their income.
   
It merely means that I'm a human being with emotions.

To say you're grasping at straws is an understatement.

datan (59 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. hey
   
have you covered the part about economic rent yet? it's right there in the first few chapters of economics.

will help you explain why football stars, movie stars, surgeons can earn millions of dollars.

Paradoxical Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. I know why they earn millions of dollars. This is a matter of ethics.
   
The nature of the exchange.

This is philosophical. Not a math problem.

You clearly do not understand that and would rather sit on here and turn money-grubbing douchebags into patron saints of humanity.

datan (59 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #52
56. dude
   
either you believe in property rights or not.

if you believe in property rights then you should believe that everyone has the right to pay someone else as much as they want to for their skills (E.g. doctor, CEO, hedge fund manager).

Hopefully you've read about marginal utility, elasticity of demand, and economic rent by now. Now look up consumer surplus. Usually both the producer and the consumer come up ahead on the transaction. If I want to pay this particular doctor all my money in exchange for saving my life, and oh there's no other doctor around, that's my right to do so. You can argue that he is charging far in excess of what he might have been willing to earn but at the end of the day, I'm happy my life is saved and he's happy to have earned all my money. The exception is in a monopolistic or collusive situation and the demand is inelastic (like oil). In which case the consumers get screwed (think back to the oil crisis in the 1970s).

Now let's say you impose a hard limit on how much you can earn a year. This doctor presumably has already earned $500k and is looking forward to the start of the new year. Since he can't earn anymore, he's not in office seeing patients but out on the golf course. So if I need his help, I'm kinda screwed aren't I? Or are you saying that doctors should work for free once they hit the $500k cap? What about lawyers and so on?


if you don't believe in property rights then you shouldn't be talking about classical economics in this discussion which kinda assumes that people own things.

joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #43
53. No, because can you understand just how many more people would be able to make it to 500k...
   
...if they didn't have to pay disproportionately for the system, or if they were allowed a chance and unfair business practices weren't basically legalized?

Courtesy Flush (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Thu Apr-28-11 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
62. The Punishment-for-success argument
   
Freepers love to say we are punishing people for being successful. My response to that: "Does the government punish people for wearing shoes? Because I had to pay sales tax on mine."

Does the government punish working people for having jobs? Are we being punished for buying food and clothing? No, taxes are the cost of living in this nation. If you want a great nation, somebody's got to pay for it.

Huh?

[Boudicca]

Datan was obviously far too intelligent for the DUmp.  No surprise his/her comments were scrubbed and he/she banned.

[JohnnyReb]

I got news for you DUmmie, $500K is not hyper wealthy.  It may appear that way to you and your loser buddies majoring in wymens studies but I and millions of others like me have made a comfortable living from those nasty, wealthy people.

I know what you mean. I like to see people do well. Especially those that do so honestly. ...and like you I hoped to benefit in some 'honest' way by their good fortune by working for them, by doing a good job for them, helping them earn more.

If DUmmies were ever lucky enough to ever do anything for a rich person, they would do all they could to cheat, rob, destroy them and their business.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Soros, Feinstein, Kerry, the Kennedy klan, Michael Moore, James Cameron, Buffet, Oprah, Robert Redford, Lady Gaga Rockafeller et al called and said, "Shut the **** up, you little punk, and get back in line!"

[JohnnyReb]

Soros, Feinstein, Kerry, the Kennedy klan, Michael Moore, James Cameron, Buffet, Oprah, Robert Redford, Lady Gaga Rockafeller et al called and said, "Shut the **** up, you little punk, and get back in line!"

Oh no. They agree with the DUmmie....they'll just pay the democrat politicians to write tax laws that exempt them from paying the new, higher taxes.

[USA4ME]

They always have some rationalization as to why the utopian ideas they dreamed up in their little heads would make the world better.  It's consistently fun to watch them dance around their proposals because, you know, they just couldn't be wrong.  Of course, for every primitive that challenges another primitive on the real world effects of what they're proposing, that primitive also has some mindless idea that's equally as far-fetched and stupid, so they have nothing to brag about.

.

[blitzkrieg_17]

Do it. I dare you to run on that, you Nazi pieces of shit. Please do. It would bring a well-deserved death to your party.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Do it. I dare you to run on that, you Nazi pieces of shit. Please do. It would bring a well-deserved death to your party.

They won't, but wouldn't it be fun?

[DumbAss Tanker]

So what makes know-it-all college students deserve Pell grants, or smelly stoner hippies deserve food stamps?

Stupid hippie college student.

[blitzkrieg_17]

They won't, but wouldn't it be fun?

It would. Of course, they deserve much more than losing office, but that's obvious.

[Rebel]

Funny how idiot liberal college kids and DUmmies in general have ALL the answers, yet can't tie their f'n shoes without the government's help. 

[thundley4]

Dear DUmmies, gas and electricity are not necessities.  Billions of people lived and died before either were ever discovered or used. Millions still live without either one.  Besides, without either one of those there would be much less pollution and isn't that more important than your selfish comfort?

[JohnnyReb]

Funny how idiot liberal college kids and DUmmies in general have ALL the answers, yet can't tie their f'n shoes without the government's help. 

That's why they wear Croc's and flip-flops.

[Karin]

The democrat party unveiled, for all to see.  Nothing but Communists.  As usual, they never have an answer for the doctor-on-the-golfcourse connundrum.  Ignored.  Someone asked about a rock star just not performing anymore after reaching the $500K.  A DUmmie replied "they could perform because they want to."  Uh huh.  

A perfect DUmmie:

leftygolfer (232 posts)        Thu Apr-28-11 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. My brother-in-law prime example
 I once made the mistake of asking him what he made in a year. He wouldn't answer exactly - but it was over $10 million. He knows that I live hand to mouth, that I don't make in five years what he makes in five days. He spends money on stupid things just for the sake of spending money, even knowing I had a 14 year old car in the shop. When he has helped me in the past, it was only because my sister would hound him about it and then, his "generosity" was minimal. I once asked him if it botherd him that their was such inequality in this country in terms of wages, security, etc. His response: "They should work harder." Bastard.  

Folks, be sure and meet ALL the relatives before popping the question.  

[Ralph Wiggum]

leftygolfer (232 posts)        Thu Apr-28-11 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. My brother-in-law prime example
 I once made the mistake of asking him what he made in a year. He wouldn't answer exactly - but it was over $10 million. He knows that I live hand to mouth, that I don't make in five years what he makes in five days. He spends money on stupid things just for the sake of spending money, even knowing I had a 14 year old car in the shop. When he has helped me in the past, it was only because my sister would hound him about it and then, his "generosity" was minimal. I once asked him if it botherd him that their was such inequality in this country in terms of wages, security, etc. His response: "They should work harder." Bastard.

 

 

[Rebel]

That's why they wear Croc's and flip-flops.

Hey, don't talk about my Olukai's like that. 

[Ralph Wiggum]

I once asked him if it botherd him that their was such inequality in this country in terms of wages, security, etc. His response: "They should work harder."

That reminds me of a quote that we use on the golf course often, when someone is losing money and they start bitching.

"Play better".

[Texacon]

The democrat party unveiled, for all to see.  Nothing but Communists.  As usual, they never have an answer for the doctor-on-the-golfcourse connundrum.  Ignored.  Someone asked about a rock star just not performing anymore after reaching the $500K.  A DUmmie replied "they could perform because they want to."  Uh huh.  

A perfect DUmmie:

Folks, be sure and meet ALL the relatives before popping the question.  

 

They are so eaten up with wanting everything given to them.  They deserve it because they're poor, lazy, worthless, stoned, crippled, etc ...

KC

[Airwolf]

Soros, Feinstein, Kerry, the Kennedy klan, Michael Moore, James Cameron, Buffet, Oprah, Robert Redford, Lady Gaga Rockafeller et al called and said, "Shut the **** up, you little punk, and get back in line!"

Oh no. I want to see then go after the really rich (Liberals) like Warren Buffett or Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. They can even go after their favorite Movie starts and singers like Lady Gaga or Tom Cruise. How about you asslickers over at DU take down Speilberg or Lucas or James Cameron?

[AllosaursRus]

What this POS fails to realize is, in his utopia, the gubmint overseers make 50 mil, while he makes 50 bucks! The same people preachin' you don't need to make more than "X", already has theirs!

Do ya think in communist China, or the late USSR, the gubmint employees had to wait in line for hours to get a tomato or a loaf of bread? Who do ya think is wearin' the Levi's? How 'bout, who's drivin' around in a Mercedes while the rest of the population is walkin' or ridin' 50 year old buses and trains?

No matter, the fact every time this so called "fair" society has been tried, the folks in charge lived high on the hog, while people like this idiot had or has, to eat grass sandwiches!

This guy is in dire need of an enema! Somebody needs to pull his head outa his ass! We don't call 'em asshole for nothin'!

Eta:

Just think, this is what our children, the generation who is goin' to take us into the future, is learning in our esteemed college institutions! Not only that, he votes!

****in' scary, ain't it?

[JohnnyReb]

What this POS fails to realize is, in his utopia, the gubmint overseers make 50 mil, while he makes 50 bucks! The same people preachin' you don't need to make more than "X", already has theirs!

Do ya think in communist China, or the late USSR, the gubmint employees had to wait in line for hours to get a tomato or a loaf of bread? Who do ya think is wearin' the Levi's? How 'bout, who's drivin' around in a Mercedes while the rest of the population is walkin' or ridin' 50 year old buses and trains?

No matter, the fact every time this so called "fair" society has been tried, the folks in charge lived high on the hog, while people like this idiot had or has, to eat grass sandwiches!

This guy is in dire need of an enema! Somebody needs to pull his head outa his ass! We don't call 'em asshole for nothin'!

Eta:

Just think, this is what our children, the generation who is goin' to take us into the future, is learning in our esteemed college institutions! Not only that, he votes!

****in' scary, ain't it?

Sure is....just don't let your gun hand get shaky.

[DumbAss Tanker]

They sound like the same sort of arrogant little shit students who would have be all in for world Communism, National Socialism, eugenics, and ZPG in other days, and probably in utero gene modification experiments on humans any day now.   

[JohnnyReb]

They sound like the same sort of arrogant little shit students who would have be all in for world Communism, National Socialism, eugenics, and ZPG in other days, and probably in utero gene modification experiments on humans any day now.   

Good...we can test for the gay and liberal gene(DNA) and ....well, you know.