http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3072366Oh my.
If only the primitives were concerned about their own mental health; although franksolich suspects the painting primitive to be a mole.
Paint It Black (981 posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:21 AM
Original message
I'm concerned about a friend of mine
I have a friend whom I've known since high school. He's a pretty smart guy, a moderate Christian. But for the past few years, he's been attending informal prayer meetings with some very fundamentalist types, cut from the Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson cloth. These folks believe that they are going to be raptured at any time, that homosexuals are going to hell, that abortion should be outlawed, and that the US and Israel are God's "chosen nations". Many of these people are also quite racist, against interracial relationships, and want to build a wall along the Mexican border to keep "them" out.
Whenever I try to point out to my friend that the people he's associating with are extremists, he shrugs it off and says that there's nothing to worry about. However, I have noticed over the years my friend slowly becoming more conservative, almost as if his relationship with these fundies is influencing his decision making. Lately I've even heard my friend praising John McCain over fellow Democrats.
Is there anything I can say to my friend at this point, or is he beyond hope now?
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good bye?
SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Sometimes these people eventually wake up and leave these beliefs.
islandmkl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. ask him the 'what would jesus do?' question....
see if he thinks jesus would be killing, polluting, expanding poverty, etc. in the name of 'faith'...
what WOULD jesus do?
Jesus for damn sure wouldn't be tolerating infanticide, or the existence of Saddam Hussein, for one.
stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. ... and if he answers "Jesus will save us all from all of that when He returns", then you say-
"Okay, bye!"
Paint It Black (981 posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. well, he DID support going into Iraq
Even though he now says that he opposes the war. It's a constant subject of debate for us.
alyce douglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. that one simple question should be asked.
and if you find his response to be very disturbing say "good bye and good luck"
Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mar-28-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. Tell him you will pray for him.
BTW outside of Paul all the apostles were single men.
Uh-oh. franksolich just hit a speed-bump here.
Any scholars of the Scriptures know if the lobotomized primitive's statement is true or not?
Given what the primitives know about Christianity, one wonders.
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. Try to EASE him into a discussion of Blasphemy/Blasphemers and, by extension,
The 1st Commandment of the OT and then, hopefully - if you get that far, the SINGLE commandment of the NT.
Try not to impose others' opinions and ideas on him, but what you personally, as his friend, know, and have come to understand through Life experiences, about what these things mean.
Let him know that you don't want to change him, that he MUST decide for himself, and that (I'm assuming) you are just trying to keep a certain "door" in your relationships with him, open - just a crack if that's all he is willing to allow.
Appeal to his Love of Freedom, because there is no "Salvation" (whatever that means) without Freedom. The life of the Christ (whoever that was) clearly illustrates that fact (i.e. freedom from CHURCH and STATE).
On Edit: BUT remember that there a whole lot of people who can and WILL cut their own nose off (and more) to spite YOUR face.
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. your friend is insane....
The fact that so many in America share his delusion doesn't make it any less delusional. Adults with imaginary friends are not rational.
I don't have any advice to offer-- until there's a cure for religious insanity, the only thing I can suggest is that we be compassionate with them but have firm boundaries to keep their delusions from affecting the lives of others.
Now, the mike_c primitive takes the cake.
The mike_c primitive was raised in a very strict "fundamentalist" sect in Kansas, whose teachings the mike_c primitive now alleges to have discarded.
The mike_c primitive has no idea, no idea at all, that the things good and decent about the mike_c primitive are based on those things he learned as a little lad, not his later-acquired political beliefs.
The pacifism, which the mike_c primitive obviously thinks is "good," comes from not his later-acquired political beliefs, but from the ancient pacifism he learned as a child.
The acceptance of all primitives, no matter their socio-economic background, which of course is a good thing in the mike_c primitive, comes from not the "tolerance" he acquired as a liberal, but from a childhood faith that told him God, and only God, can judge another man.
I think the mike_c primitive is fooling himself.
Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. Just be there for him when he comes to his senses
I had a friend in law school who was a rabid Republican. His best friend from childhood announced that he was gay and it blew my friend's mind. He had been taught that all gays were going to hell. We used to talk about his faith and its teachings. He couldn't understand why he had to either stop associating with his best friend or try to convert/cure him.
It took him almost a year but my friend finally came to his senses and realized that the church doctrine he had blindly clung to all of his life was wrong. It was a real struggle for him but I was there to help him when he needed it. I wasn't the only one. He eventually changed churches and started attending one that actually preached love rather than condemnation.
franksolich detects bounciness in the above.
DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. Say, "nice knowing you" as he slips beyond the great divide
When people get drawn in by cults, it's usually because they were receptive to it in the first place. They have filled a hole in his psyche that he hadn't felt was filled elsewhere, and he has now found someone to do the filling. That their motives are less than pure is completely beside the point.
Hmmm. It looks like the Dallas-Fort Worth primitive is projecting.
Paint It Black (981 posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. What makes it worse is that lately, he's been very vocal about other people's religious associations
It really bothers me, because he continues to claim that he's progressive, yet he's exhibiting these disturbing traits.
I think many of the responses here are right, it might be time to tell this guy that although I've valued his friendship in the past, unless he distances himself from these extremists and stops attacking some of my other friends, that I'm going to have to cut off my friendship.
rogcycle (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. tell him to avoid kool-aid
Broadslidin (765 posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
11. Reflecting upon "Paint It Black", expect to be placed near the top of his "Evil Doer" list....!
Balbus (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
13. Talk about baseball...
The more you keep religion and politics out of a friendship, the more and better friends you will have.
Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. If this is a friendship you have valued and would mourn it's loss...
I would have a serious conversation and let him know you are disturbed by this trend. Tell him you have a deep regard for him but cannot respect the views which he is beginning to embrace.
Point blank ask him what void or problem in his life is inspiring him to seek relief in such a manner. Find out if there is a way you can help find a more palatable medicine for what ails him.
SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-28-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
16. Your friend is NOT becoming more 'conservative'
The phony label 'conservative' is just a radical right-wing propaganda meme cover-up to disguise fear-based fascism that trashes the economy, the environment, the Constitution, the Golden Rule, and everything else that is truly worth conserving.
Okay, let franksolich tell everybody what's going on here; it doesn't take Sigmund Freud to figure it out.
This applies ONLY if the painting primitive is NOT a mole, and instead is an authentic primitive.
The painting primitive owes his friend some money, and so can't really discard the "friendship."
