Love

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

And, ironically, is responsible for your own free will...


[ref: apple in Eden for unwashed heritics]

Sorry, sir...

...I cannot give TNO freewill, try as I might. I can only work with the materials given me.

[TheSarge]

Oh, right. The creator of the true world and the apparent world. The one who I suspect Mr. S believes exists. 

Amazing how you can so arrogantly mock people for this kind of belief...yet you have a rock solid unshakeable belief in the unproven theories of man made global warming and evolution.

The very same person who thinks that any Christian is believing in mere fairy tales...believes in two giant ones himself.

Hypocrisy much?

[rubliw]

Stimuli-response cycles are inherent in the parts. What the hell do you think chemistry is?

The nervous system may operate on chemistry, but as a system it can be described wholly apart from that chemistry, by the properties it exhibits as a system - just like you could describe the function of a watch and its gears totally apart from the chemistry of the material it was made from.  One can begin to think of the system in terms of principles which are, admittedly, enabled by its chemistry at the very bottom, but otherwise many steps removed from it.  But if you want to look at it your way, it really seems like it would be consistent with your line of thinking to say that subatomic particles can love, since the chemical processes that make it happen are facilitated by the properties of the particles involved.

"Love"--if it existed--would be a choice. The biological urge to propagate is no different from hunger...do it or die off. Your parents had no more choice to "love" you than a domino has a choice to fall for the actions of the domino that preceded it.

I'd have to know what you mean by choice, to comment further.  I'm not sure if you are suggesting that the choice that love requires is a type of libertarian free-will sort of choice (which might stipulate that a mind must be free from the causality of this universe), or if choice here has a more compatibalist meaning - or perhaps something else entirely.    If its the former, I'd simply object to the idea that love - much less anything - requires such a concept to be coherent or meaningful.

[vesta111]

"Love"--if it existed--would be a choice. The biological urge to propagate is no different from hunger...do it or die off. Your parents had no more choice to "love" you than a domino has a choice to fall for the actions of the domino that preceded it.

I do not agree, -----With humans love comes in all shapes and sizes.  

First one must cut through all the different definitions of love, there is love of self, love of others, love of pets and love of children and or your new Sunday hat.

Being wildly in love is different then loving a parent or the love of the sea, or ones country.

One can fall in love and out of love in a heart beat.     Hate is the direct opposite of love, it is difficult to fall out of Hate.   Hate seldom morphs into love but love can become, if betrayed , into a self destructive element in ones life.

What causes what we call feelings in our life.?   What about the people that lack the capacities to love their children or anyone but themselves.?

What is this thing called the 7 year itch that causes couples to question their commitment.?

Then there is the fact of life that has me stumped as to human nature. Couples that can be so in love and live together for 10-15 or more years, have children together then after all that time decide to get married.    AH-----. why does the marriage last only 18 months to 2 years and then divorce.?

Mothers are suppose to bond with their children, some do some don't, some parents have a favorite child, if love is but a chemical reaction should not this be impossible.

Love is very selfish as we see everyday with people who have children and remarry someone that dislikes their child.  9 times out of 10 the parent with the child will place the sex object ahead of their own child.    

So rather then ask about chemicals and the need to procreate, first we need to find out why we LIKE something or dislike it,  then we can figure out about love.






Note: quote tags edited by moderator for clarity......

[The Night Owl]

Amazing how you can so arrogantly mock people for this kind of belief...yet you have a rock solid unshakeable belief in the unproven theories of man made global warming and evolution.

The very same person who thinks that any Christian is believing in mere fairy tales...believes in two giant ones himself.

I'm not mocking anyone. I'm just voicing suspicions. I find it interesting that Mr. S, who seems to have a lot to say about atheists (none of it good), won't say whether he's a theist, agnostic, or atheist. Mr. S says he's a nihilist but that could mean any number of things. Don't get me wrong-- I really don't care about what Mr. S is or isn't. I just think that his posts would be more coherent if he would give us better idea of where he's coming from.

Hypocrisy much?

Sometimes.

[TheSarge]

I'm not mocking anyone. I'm just voicing suspicions. I find it interesting that Mr. S, who seems to have a lot to say about atheists (none of it good), won't say whether he's a theist, agnostic, or atheist. Mr. S says he's a nihilist but that could mean any number of things. Don't get me wrong-- I really don't care about what Mr. S is or isn't. I just think that his posts would be more coherent if he would give us better idea of where he's coming from.

Blatant lie #1

Sometimes.

Blatant lie #2

[The Night Owl]

Blatant lie #1

Blatant lie #1.

Blatant lie #2

Blatant lie #2.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I'm not mocking anyone. I'm just voicing suspicions. I find it interesting that Mr. S, who seems to have a lot to say about atheists (none of it good), won't say whether he's a theist, agnostic, or atheist. Mr. S says he's a nihilist but that could mean any number of things. Don't get me wrong-- I really don't care about what Mr. S is or isn't. I just think that his posts would be more coherent if he would give us better idea of where he's coming from.

TRG is free to correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he was referring to how you mock christians, not me.

I've made my argument very clear but you have no answer so you play games. It's your TNO-MO

[The Night Owl]

I've made my argument very clear but you have no answer so you play games. It's your TNO-MO

How is it a game to ask you whether you're a theist, an agnostic, or an atheist? It's a straightforward question.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

How is it a game to ask you whether you're a theist, an agnostic, or an atheist? It's a straightforward question.

**** your deflections. God or not I do what I want without apology or alibi and this is why you are a lesser species not worthy of survival.

And just to demonstrate what a ****ing ignorant dumbass you are speaking out of your depth:

Nihilism = nothing

You cannot definitionally assign atheist, agnostic or theist (or deist or pantheist or whatever) because by definition:

IT

DOESN'T

****ING

MATTER

Got it, dumbass?

You might as well ask how many sides I have as a triangle.



Now back to you:

I asked you to empirically prove how love can exist.

I've also asked you to empirically prove morality exists.

The former extends from the latter because in the latter case all you could offer was some simpering nonsense about you and your family and how much they mean to you. I asked about the latter because you keep pontificating to us with your liberal dogma about what we and society ought or ought not be doing in the name of some fictitious greater good.

Others have asked you empirical proof for other issues from evolution, to origns of life to .

All you do is dance around the subject until you can think of some non-sequitor to ask in return then and when others refuse to answer because you yourself have not answered their queries you feign chagrin at not have your deflection answered.

My postualtion is you are a fraud. You do not endorse atheism because it has provided evidence for your convictions but because religion is wrecking your good time and smug--and wholly unfounded--sense of superiority. You like feeling smarter than people and that is because you are weak. As soon as you are challenged you run into the cloud banks to hide behind "I think/feel/believe/hope..." You should just stick a bone through your nose and sacrifice a virgin to keep the Great Dahr-Wyn from growing angry and destroying your village.

If you want to say there is no God but raise your middle finger to Him just in case He does exist have the ****ing stones to just do it and man up to it. But to climb on the internet to bully a bunch of people about their beliefs why claiming beliefs are irrelevant is the height of hypocrisy and self delusion. Atheism means "it all doesn't matter" but you keep saying it matters.

And **** you and your "I just like the debate" bullshit because you don't debate. I repeat: YOU PROVIDE NO POSITIVE EVIDENCE FOR WHAT YOU CLAIM TO BELIEVE

And you mock Christians?

I'm a nihilist. To see you beaten until you are a quivering ball that suddenly realizes the pointlessness and fragility of his own existence would tickle my electrons to no end. Call it "tough love."

[The Night Owl]

**** your deflections. God or not I do what I want without apology or alibi and this is why you are a lesser species not worthy of survival.

And just to demonstrate what a ******* ignorant dumbass you are speaking out of your depth:

Nihilism = nothing

There are different forms of nihilism and I suspect that you're aware of that.

You cannot definitionally assign atheist, agnostic or theist (or deist or pantheist or whatever) because by definition:

IT

DOESN'T

*******

MATTER

Got it, dumbass?

You might as well ask how many sides I have as a triangle.

Wow! I'm not asking you about what you think matters or doesn't matter. I'm simply asking you if you believe a god exists. The question can be answered regardless of whether you think the answer matters or doesn't matter.

But don't torture yourself. If you don't want to answer then say so... but don't try to tell me you've answered.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Your concession is duly noted.

[The Night Owl]

Your concession is duly noted.

Yes, I concede that it was silly of me to think that I could get you to answer a straightforward question in a straightforward way.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

It cannot be more plainly stated. You seem to think I have some hidden agenda. Are you accusing me of being a christian nihilist?

What next? Creationist atheists?

 

Now stop with the non-sequitors and sack-up to the fact that you believe in fairy tales.

[rubliw]

**** your deflections. God or not I do what I want without apology or alibi and this is why you are a lesser species not worthy of survival.

Worthy?  Lesser?  From whence do such value assessments flow for a "nihilist" such as yourself?    

Atheism means "it all doesn't matter" but you keep saying it matters.

Quite a debatable point - hardly something to be assumed or accepted without an argument.  With only a few exceptions, the notable atheist philosophers who would ascent to that proposition are very few and very far between.  

There is nothing logically contradictory between atheism and things which preclude at least some forms of nihilism, like moral realism, relativism, and objectivism.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Worthy?  Lesser?  From whence do such value assessments flow for a "nihilist" such as yourself?    

Mine.

Because I can.

Quite a debatable point - hardly something to be assumed or accepted without an argument.  With only a few exceptions, the notable atheist philosophers who would ascent to that proposition are very few and very far between.

 

It's not my fault the planet is filled with escapist pussies.

There is nothing logically contradictory between atheism and things which preclude at least some forms of nihilism, like moral realism, relativism, and objectivism.

Put up or go fellate a jackhammer.

[The Night Owl]

It cannot be more plainly stated. You seem to think I have some hidden agenda. Are you accusing me of being a christian nihilist?

I wouldn't be suprised even in the least to find out that you're some kind of a religious nihilist.

[The Night Owl]

It's not my fault the planet is filled with escapist pussies.

Do you think Christians are escapist pussies?

[rubliw]

Mine.

Because I can.

Apparently this type of nihilism involves the rejection of the law of non-contradiction - which kind of makes it self defeating.
  

It's not my fault the planet is filled with escapist pussies.

Interesting... considering your comments above.  Everyone else, when they use value laden terms, is an escapist.  You on the other hand, are just being a "man"... or whatever.  

Put up or go fellate a jackhammer.

I'm probably not the best one to make the cases for those things, nor am I really that interested in doing so here.  I'm merely pointing out that your nihilism is a fringe belief among atheist thinkers, and is controversial to say the least.  So its perfectly fine for any atheist to reject those particular assertions of yours out of hand, unless you support them with argument.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I wouldn't be at all suprised to find out that you're some kind of a religious nihilist.

What we do know is you are a "professed" atheist who traffics in fairy tales and lacks the stones to support the spew he expects others to live by.

Do you think Christians are escapist pussies?

Some pussies profess to be christians but its the atheists that pretend morality/love/justice/purpose exist are little more than cowards. They claim to intellectually acknowledge mindless, purposeless reality but because they can't stomach the thought that mommy never really loved them they conjure phantoms...but then they ridicule others for having different phantoms. People of faith admit they are people of faith, it's the atheist faithists that are so grating.

=============================

Apparently this type of nihilism involves the rejection of the law of non-contradiction - which kind of makes it self defeating.

Allegation - evidence = fail

My reality ends when I end and nothing outside me can change that fact, ergo my desires are the only desires that matter.
 

Interesting... considering your comments above.  Everyone else, when they use value laden terms, is an escapist.  You on the other hand, are just being a "man"... or whatever. 

Escapist is not a value. It is a strictly technical term. ***** describes your refusal to acknowledge the plainly obvious because of your weakness. There's no moral quality to it and once I end my concern for your escapist pussification ends with me.

Still, it tickles my electrons to see a couple of escapist pussies writhing beneath their own fantasies.

I'm probably not the best one to make the cases for those things, nor am I really that interested in doing so here.  I'm merely pointing out that your nihilism is a fringe belief among atheist thinkers, and is controversial to say the least.  So its perfectly fine for any atheist to reject those particular assertions of yours out of hand, unless you support them with argument.

Judging from what you and TNO bring to the fight both you idiots together couldn't make a good argument for hot soup on a cold day.

Seriously? argumentum ad populum is the best you can bring?

[The Night Owl]

What we do know is you are a "professed" atheist who traffics in fairy tales and lacks the stones to support the spew he expects others to live by.

Hey, unlike you, I at least put my views up for consideration. You won't even say whether you believe or don't believe in a god. I'm not sure why you're being so cagey but if I had to guess I would say that you're either a closeted theist or you're afraid you'll alienate your political confederates by coming out as an atheist.

Some pussies profess to be christians but its the atheists that pretend morality/love/justice/purpose exist are little more than cowards. They claim to intellectually acknowledge mindless, purposeless reality but because they can't stomach the thought that mommy never really loved them they conjure phantoms...but then they ridicule others for having different phantoms. People of faith admit they are people of faith, it's the atheist faithists that are so grating.

People who admit that their religious beliefs are based on nothing more than faith are actually quite rare. Nearly all the theists I've argued with on the Internet have claimed that their religious beliefs are rooted in both faith and reason.

[dutch508]

Hey, unlike you, I at least put my views up for consideration. You won't even say whether you believe or don't believe in a god. I'm not sure why you're being so cagey but if I had to guess I would say that you're either a closeted theist or you're afraid you'll alienate your political confederates by coming out as an atheist.

People who admit that their religious beliefs are based on nothing more than faith are actually quite rare. Nearly all the theists I've argued with on the Internet have claimed that their religious beliefs are rooted both in faith and reason.

hey, Dumbasses. Take this thread on love over to the fight club.


dumbasses.

[Chris_]

hey, Dumbasses. Take this thread on love over to the fight club.


dumbasses.

It is not really at that point as yet......MSB came at it from an existentialist perspective, and it is still (pretty much) stayed on topic, except for the past few posts.

Nebulous as it is, guys, lets keep it between the fences......

doc

[TheSarge]

TRG is free to correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he was referring to how you mock christians, not me.

I've made my argument very clear but you have no answer so you play games. It's your TNO-MO

You're correct.  I was talking about TNO's boring and boorish mocking of people of faith.

[SVPete]

They claim to intellectually acknowledge mindless, purposeless reality but because they can't stomach the thought that mommy never really loved them they conjure phantoms...but then they ridicule others for having different phantoms.

I'd compliment you for your consistency, but I'm not sure whether you, or I, really exist. You take atheism-agnosticism to its logical conclusion. Reflections on having one's bicycle stolen can be interesting.