Does anyone else here think our military is a socialist run structure

[Freeper]

lunatica  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list  Donate to DU!      Wed Aug-19-09 09:57 AM
Original message
Does anyone else here think our military is a socialist run structure
   
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 10:01 AM by lunatica
If the definition of Socialism is that the government pays for everything with the revenues generated by the taxes that the citizens pay, then our entire military organization is the biggest Socialist program of all. There is nothing in any of the military branches that is generated through private means. From the building of the weapons like the drones, tanks, and hand held firepower, to the multi-million dollar fighter jets, to the floating cities of the aircraft carriers it's all paid on our dime.

Our 700 plus bases all over the world, as well as the monstrosity in Iraq are on our dime. You and I pay for it. We now pay Halliburton to 'service' the military whereas we used to pay the military to do it for themselves. We also pay Blackwater to guard our State Department members when they travel outside the US. It all on our dime.

All our military personnel, up to the highest ranking officers get paid with our money. They get housed with our money. Their very uniforms are paid with our taxes. And when the grunts in the trenches are forced to pay for thing they get, like meals while they're convalescing in hospitals after getting shot up in the wars, that's them giving it back to the government who gave it to them in the first place out of our pockets. The government shouldn't be for profit if they're using our money to fund things.

If Socialism is the topic of the day, let's really talk about it. The next time some puffed up disrupter retired vet chooses to strap a side arm high up on his thigh to enhance his crotch or screams about how bad Socialism is maybe they should be reminded they've been in the biggest Socialist style run organization in history and in the world. It isn't just the medical care they get that's socialist.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6344634

Hmm the dummy has a point the military does sort of run like a socialistic society.
The pay is low.
Health care is rationed in fact when you get sick you don't see a doctor you see a PFC who gives you tylenol or motrin.
Dentists routinely pull wisdom teeth that are not problematic for "practice"

Your freedoms are stripped down. You are told by the govt where you will live, where you will work and how much money you can earn. And you can't just put in your 2 weeks notice if you want a better job.
One major difference is you have to actually produce something to be in the system. Secondly it is totally voluntary you agree to the terms that are in your contract and if you dont like it you can not re enlist when your hitch is up.
So DUmmies you made a pretty good argument of why socialism is bad and I wager most people who served and voluntary suspended their freedom are the first ones who do not want socialism.

I almost forgot the military does random drug tests whenever they feel like it I can bet you the DUmp would hate that. 

[franksolich]

Well, I always said dutch508 here bears a vague resemblance to Vladimir Lenin.

[dutch508]

Well, I always said dutch508 here bears a vague resemblance to Vladimir Lenin.

Socialism is that everything is equil for all the members. That is not how the military works. We are a dictatorship. There are people in charge who run everything, and although the individual has a course for redress of greivences, odds are youa re either; a) in Charge, or b) third spearcarrier from the left.

backtracking now to only a vague resemblance? I may have to look into the family history to see if Vlad and I are somehow related.

[DumbAss Tanker]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6344634

Hmm the dummy has a point the military does sort of run like a socialistic society.
The pay is low.
Health care is rationed in fact when you get sick you don't see a doctor you see a PFC who gives you tylenol or motrin.
Dentists routinely pull wisdom teeth that are not problematic for "practice"

Your freedoms are stripped down. You are told by the govt where you will live, where you will work and how much money you can earn. And you can't just put in your 2 weeks notice if you want a better job.
One major difference is you have to actually produce something to be in the system. Secondly it is totally voluntary you agree to the terms that are in your contract and if you dont like it you can not re enlist when your hitch is up.
So DUmmies you made a pretty good argument of why socialism is bad and I wager most people who served and voluntary suspended their freedom are the first ones who do not want socialism.

I almost forgot the military does random drug tests whenever they feel like it I can bet you the DUmp would hate that.  

True as far as you go, an even larger economic fallacy here is that the military does not sustain itself from its own endeavors.  It depends on taxes to supply those benefits, true, but those taxes come from the entire population.  So, while everyone in or out of service pays to provide and sustain those services, only those actually in service or affiliated with them receive said services.  It therefore operates at a deep deficit in terms of output vs. income.  For reasons completely unrelated to any mere accounting tomfoolery with income statements or cash flow, the value provided to the larger society is nonetheless generally considered to be worth the tab, at least outside DUmmieville.

Thus, it represents a ridiculously infeasible model for society at large.

[Lord Undies]

Unless a personal individual decision is made to continue, the military experience is temporary.  It has an end designed into the agreement.  People are returned to free society.  That ain't socialism.

[djones520]

True as far as you go, an even larger economic fallacy here is that the military does not sustain itself from its own endeavors.  It depends on taxes to supply those benefits, true, but those taxes come from the entire population.  So, while everyone in or out of service pays to provide and sustain those services, only those actually in service or affiliated with them receive said services.  It therefore operates at a deep deficit in terms of output vs. income.  For reasons completely unrelated to any mere accounting tomfoolery with income statements or cash flow, the value provided to the larger society is nonetheless generally considered to be worth the tab, at least outside DUmmieville.

Thus, it represents a ridiculously infeasible model for society at large.

Not in an attempt to contradict you, more just for FYI, but I did recently learn that the AF does actually sustain itself in some measures.  AMC does SAAM missions, which in a nutshell are missions where we contract ourselves out to private enterprises for heavy lifting.  Case in point, Keiko the killer whale, was flown by a C-17 to Iceland where he was released.  The entire mission was paid for by a private company, not the tax payer.  We fly these missions to help offset the cost to the tax payer.

Granted, it's like a drop in the bucket on the overall cost of the military, but it's interesting to know, none the less.

[AllosaursRus]

Giving your life so these asshats can smoke dope and rant about how they hate our country sure seems like they get a pretty good deal for their taxes. If that isn't supplying a product to the American people I don't know what is. What kind of value do you put on a human life DUmbass? Oh, I forgot, you don't, since you've enabled the killing of 40 million children in the last 50 years! What's a soldier's life to you?

[jukin]

The military is an authoritative totalitarian regime.  Got that in common with socialistic regimes.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Not in an attempt to contradict you, more just for FYI, but I did recently learn that the AF does actually sustain itself in some measures.  AMC does SAAM missions, which in a nutshell are missions where we contract ourselves out to private enterprises for heavy lifting.  Case in point, Keiko the killer whale, was flown by a C-17 to Iceland where he was released.  The entire mission was paid for by a private company, not the tax payer.  We fly these missions to help offset the cost to the tax payer.

Granted, it's like a drop in the bucket on the overall cost of the military, but it's interesting to know, none the less.

There are civic construction projects the land services do as well, provided all the hoops are jumped through, and it is determined to have some actual 'Training value,' but the value is truly insignificant compared to the cost of keeping up the force as a whole.

[Chris_]

There are civic construction projects the land services do as well,

One would be remiss if we didn't consider the value of the literally thousands of projects that have been completed by the Corp of Engineers over the years.........

We'd still be scooping mud out of downtown KC from the spring floods if it wasn't for these folks......

doc

[thundley4]

Didn't the military handle a lot of their own on base construction projects up until the 70's or so?

[MASHLover]

Their very uniforms are paid with our taxes.

Sorry but when I was in the Marine Corps I had to pay for my uniforms.  Even the initial issue came out of our pay at the end of boot camp.  The ONLY time I had uniforms paid for was when they decided that everybody that was serving in what was considered "I&I" Duty was issued 1 set of Dress Blues.  Other than that, everything else I paid for.

Damn dummies really need to research before they rant.

[DumbAss Tanker]

One would be remiss if we didn't consider the value of the literally thousands of projects that have been completed by the Corp of Engineers over the years.........

We'd still be scooping mud out of downtown KC from the spring floods if it wasn't for these folks......

doc

True, doc, but that money is all appropriated, budgeted, and spent entirely separately from the funds and the process that supply the armed force structure part of the service that the Commies are talking about, from beans and bullets to guns and paychecks for the shooters.

[ReardenSteel]

True, doc, but that money is all appropriated, budgeted, and spent entirely separately from the funds and the process that supply the armed force structure part of the service that the Commies are talking about, from beans and bullets to guns and paychecks for the shooters.

DAT's right. Even the taxes "paid" by government employee's come (ultimately) from the taxes of private industry.

That said... military folks kick ass and "conservatives", not being anarchist, do belive for the most part in some government service. (military- to fight off foreign invaders, police- to fight domestic crimes and the courts- to settle legit disputes) The need for the government to pay for anything else is debatable to all.

[AprilRazz]

Sorry but when I was in the Marine Corps I had to pay for my uniforms.  Even the initial issue came out of our pay at the end of boot camp.  The ONLY time I had uniforms paid for was when they decided that everybody that was serving in what was considered "I&I" Duty was issued 1 set of Dress Blues.  Other than that, everything else I paid for.

Damn dummies really need to research before they rant.

Actually there is a yearly allowance for upkeep. But when the navy switched over to the new uniforms we were given a little extra that covered less than half of what we needed for our seabags.
Oh and another thing the DUmmy got wrong is active duty military pays nothing for food while in an inpatient status. Otherwise we get COMRATS to the tune of about (I forget the exact number) $275 per month for food.