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Author Topic: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one  (Read 2285 times)

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Offline Freeper

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Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« on: June 26, 2011, 11:40:48 AM »
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sun Jun-26-11 11:34 AM
Original message
Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
   
I drive an SUV (don't worry - Gaia was my co-signer) that is paid off, free and clear. It is worth aboput $10,000 in resale.
I get about 15mpg.

A Volt costs $40,000 (I will use round numbers). Let us assume the net asset cost of a Volt to me is $30,000. I will need
to find $30,000 in fuel cost savings on a net present value basis to justify buying a Volt. This assumes that I don't
finance the vehicle, ie, I have $30K in cash just laying around.

Let us suppose for exposition that the Volt gets 60mpg of actual gas purchased (it runs on gas and electricity). Gas is $4/gal,
and I drive 15,000 miles per year.

I use 1,000 gallons of gas per year at an expense of $4,000; with a Volt I would use 250 gallons and spend $1,000. That's an
annual gas expense savings of $3,000.

Assuming that the electricity to feed the car is free to me (a horrible assumption), and there is
no time value of money, it would take 10 years to recoup the expense of the vehicle relative to the one I currently own.
In that 10 years, the battery will likely need to be replaced at least once, the expense of which I will call a wash due
to likely upkeep expense for my current vehicle.

The more likely scenario is that I finance the vehicle, and electricity is nowhere near free, both of which imply that the
real time to recoup the expense is more like 12-15 years.

Not worth it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1365916

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sun Jun-26-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. Not worth it- until climate volatility shreds your house by tornado, flood, hurricane and/or leaves
   
you and the rest of us competing for what's left of the petroleum and diminished crop yields.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sun Jun-26-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Yeah, I saw that in Chevy's marketing material.
   
"Buy this car OR YOU WILL DIE."

:eyes:

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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Sun Jun-26-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. My car was made in America.
   
I don't owe American autoworkers JACK ****ING SHIT - I don't make purchasing decisions based on the wants of the people who make whatever
it is.

And as for the environment...what went into the electricity production? Do you know what metals are mined to make those batteries, and how
they're mined?

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2011, 12:03:39 PM »
DT is having waaaaay too many lucid thoughts to survive in DUmmieLand.
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2011, 12:09:04 PM »
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Motown_Johnny  (1000+ posts)        Sun Jun-26-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. keep an eye on compressed air vehicles too (no battery worries)

The other day a DUmmy, maybe this one, was all excited about development of a free, unlimited energy source: compressed air.
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Offline BannedFromDU

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2011, 12:12:58 PM »
Quote from: GOBUCKS on June 26, 2011, 12:09:04 PM

The other day a DUmmy, maybe this one, was all excited about development of a free, unlimited energy source: compressed air.


Cheetos to create the Cheeto farts the DUmmy speaks of are not free.
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5. IMO

a certain percentage of DU is depressed and has other mental issues.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2011, 12:21:00 PM »
Quote from: GOBUCKS on June 26, 2011, 12:09:04 PM

The other day a DUmmy, maybe this one, was all excited about development of a free, unlimited energy source: compressed air.


Switcher locomotives were built (Using steam engine running gear) that used this method back in the pre-WW2 era for specialized applications where sparks could not be tolerated and large amounts of compressed air were available due to the industrial processes being used, some types of mining for instance.  Useful for limited industrial applications within a site, not for transportation between separate locations.  
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Offline compaqxp

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2011, 12:22:09 PM »
I don't see anyway they could really disagree with the OP. The Volt is simply not worth it.
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2011, 12:29:18 PM »
Quote from: compaqxp on June 26, 2011, 12:22:09 PM
I don't see anyway they could really disagree with the OP. The Volt is simply not worth it.
Same as Prius. A handful of DUmmies are paying an enormous premium in money and convenience to make a political statement.
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Offline compaqxp

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2011, 12:33:33 PM »
Quote from: GOBUCKS on June 26, 2011, 12:29:18 PM
Same as Prius. A handful of DUmmies are paying an enormous premium in money and convenience to make a political statement.

Yep, or any current hybrid/battery powered car. We all know the dummies want us driving G-Wizes though...it's only a matter of time before they start pushing them. (At us and when the battery goes dead)

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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2011, 12:37:36 PM »
Quote from: compaqxp on June 26, 2011, 12:33:33 PM
Yep, or any current hybrid/battery powered car. We all know the dummies want us driving G-Wizes though...it's only a matter of time before they start pushing them. (At us and when the battery goes dead)

I think an E-Z-Go makes a lot more sense. And when my trip is finished, I just park it outside the pro shop.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 12:40:27 PM »
Quote from: GOBUCKS on June 26, 2011, 12:09:04 PM

The other day a DUmmy, maybe this one, was all excited about development of a free, unlimited energy source: compressed air.


Actually, I can see some viability in compressed air, but it'll have to be coupled with an internal combustion engine. Most of your gas consumption is due to acceleration. If there was a way to compress air by normal driving, and, after stopping and then starting back, the saved compressed air kicks in and essentially launches you to the point where the gas engine kicks in, it would, IMO save a ton on gas.

One main drawback I could see is the maintenance. I had this conversation with one of my co-workers, a retired USN LtCDR Brownshoe who said it's very costly to maintain. Don't know all the details, was just thinking about it one day. Of course, I didn't think of this in some grand scheme to save a planet we're supposedly destroying  :whatever: but out of selfish financial reasons.
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 12:53:53 PM »
Quote from: Rebel on June 26, 2011, 12:40:27 PM
Actually, I can see some viability in compressed air, but it'll have to be coupled with an internal combustion engine. Most of your gas consumption is due to acceleration. If there was a way to compress air by normal driving, and, after stopping and then starting back, the saved compressed air kicks in and essentially launches you to the point where the gas engine kicks in, it would, IMO save a ton on gas.

One main drawback I could see is the maintenance. I had this conversation with one of my co-workers, a retired USN LtCDR Brownshoe who said it's very costly to maintain. Don't know all the details, was just thinking about it one day. Of course, I didn't think of this in some grand scheme to save a planet we're supposedly destroying  :whatever: but out of selfish financial reasons.
I just recall from years ago seeing an accounting of costs for a manufacturing plant, and compressed air was a very expensive utility. Air compressors soak up a lot of power, and their storage and distribution systems leak and take a lot of maintenance.
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Offline Rebel

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2011, 01:00:37 PM »
Quote from: GOBUCKS on June 26, 2011, 12:53:53 PM
I just recall from years ago seeing an accounting of costs for a manufacturing plant, and compressed air was a very expensive utility. Air compressors soak up a lot of power, and their storage and distribution systems leak and take a lot of maintenance.

Yeah, the leaking issue was one my co-worker said was a concern. Not to mention the air has to be extremely compressed to launch a 4K pound vehicle.
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2011, 02:01:44 PM »
Frankly, I'd love to see a DUmmie turning a wrench on the fitting of a 4500# air system and watch the damn thing let go.

Pure comedy gold.
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Offline Doc

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2011, 02:06:58 PM »
Those pesky laws of Physics will get them every time:

Quote
Fuel GGE                                                              BTU/unit                                      kWh/Unit  

Gasoline (base)                                            114,000 BTU/gal                     33.41
Gasoline (conventional, summer)                     114,500 BTU/gal                      33.56
Gasoline (conventional, winter)                       112,500 BTU/gal                      32.97
Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, ethanol           111,836 BTU/gal                      32.78
Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, ETBE)             111,811 BTU/gal                      32.77
Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, MTBE)             111,745 BTU/gal                      32.75
Gasoline (10% MBTE)                                    112,000 BTU/gal                      32.83
Gasoline (regular unleaded)                            114,100 BTU/gal                      33.44
Diesel #2                                                    129,500 BTU/gal                      37.95
Biodiesel (B100)                                           118,300 BTU/gal
Bio Diesel (B20)                                           127,250 BTU/gal
Liquid natural gas (LNG)                                  75,000 BTU/gal
Compressed natural gas (CNG)                             900 BTU/cu ft
Hydrogen at 101.325 kPa                                    319 BTU/cu ft]
Hydrogen by weight                                       51,500 BTU/lb)
Liquefied petroleum gas(propane) (LPG)            84,300 BTU/gal
Methanol fuel (M100)                                    56,800 BTU/gal
Ethanol fuel (E100)                                       76,100 BTU/gal
Ethanol (E85)                                               81,800 BTU/gal
Jet fuel (naphtha)                                        118,700 BTU/gal
Jet fuel (kerosene)                                       128,100 BTU/gal
Electricity                                                33.40 kilowatt-hours * 3,413 BTU/(kW·h)

It requires (one gallon), 114,000 BTU to move an average 3,000 pound vehicle for a distance of 25 miles........anyone can do the math to see how "alternative" fuels compare.

It's worth noting that the Chevrolet Volt's battery assembly has a capacity of 23 KW/h........or roughly 2/3rds the energy capacity of one gallon of gasoline.........

doc
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 03:06:39 PM by TVDOC »
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Offline Bodadh

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2011, 02:08:22 PM »
This reminds me, I have always wanted to do the fire extinguisher and skateboard stunt.
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 02:21:39 PM »
Quote from: NHSparky on June 26, 2011, 02:01:44 PM
Frankly, I'd love to see a DUmmie turning a wrench on the fitting of a 4500# air system and watch the damn thing let go.

Pure comedy gold.
Compressed air is like a bomb. Many people have been killed, literally decapitated, trying to mount a 14" tire on a 14.5" rim, at under 100 psi. The tire cannot seat, the bead will fail, and the force of the explosion is amazing. Surprisingly, if a passenger tire is properly mounted, it will not normally fail until pressure exceeds 200 psi. (The testing is always done with water, not air, so there's no explosion.)
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Offline FreeBorn

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 02:44:35 PM »
If the tards on the island want a truly green car maybe they could go with something like this RECYCLED 1986 Buick~

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwig1tgUtY[/youtube]
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 02:56:52 PM »
Quote from: FreeBorn on June 26, 2011, 02:44:35 PM
If the tards on the island want a truly green car maybe they could go with something like this RECYCLED 1986 Buick~
I hope it's the hobo! I'm really afraid the freepers have killed her. If they can reach into the wilds of northeastern Oklahoma, they can certainly show up in urban Colorado.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2011, 03:45:55 PM »
Compressed air car sounds like a winner to me...in fact, I want to be a salemen for them. I'll promise the DUmmies there first tank of air and a free bicycle pump with each purchase....it'll be years before they can pump up enough air pressure to come back and complain. :-)
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Offline Tucker

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2011, 04:59:20 PM »
Quote from: GOBUCKS on June 26, 2011, 12:29:18 PM
Same as Prius. A handful of DUmmies are paying an enormous premium in money and convenience to make a political statement.

Annie sold her Accord and bought a Prius. Last I heard, Pam still owns her Jeep Cherokee.
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Offline Tucker

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2011, 05:02:15 PM »
Quote from: Bodadh on June 26, 2011, 02:08:22 PM
This reminds me, I have always wanted to do the fire extinguisher and skateboard stunt.

It's not very safe. The coyote died.
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2011, 06:33:18 PM »
Quote from: Tucker on June 26, 2011, 05:02:15 PM
It's not very safe. The coyote died.
He wasn't using a fire extinguisher. Just stay away from Acme Rocket Skates.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2011, 06:36:10 PM »
Quote from: GOBUCKS on June 26, 2011, 06:33:18 PM
He wasn't using a fire extinguisher. Just stay away from Acme Rocket Skates.

Actually, anything with the Acme brand name . . . :lmao: :rotf:
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2011, 06:37:42 PM »
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Offline Tucker

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Re: Chevy Volt arithmetic - why I won't be buying one
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2011, 06:47:57 PM »
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Come to think of it, unions do create jobs. Companies have to hire two workers to do the work of one.
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