primitives discuss electrical problems

[diesel driver]

Tune in next week when we learn how to run the old "My Condo Just Burned Scam" for fun and profit.

DUmmie should stand in a tub of salt water and stick wet finger in a light socket....he needs more electroshock therapy.

We could make a game show out of that!  Have DUmmie stand in tub of salt water, reaching above his head to replace a broken light bulb.  Is the light switch on, or not?  Remove the old broken bulb, replace it with a new one, without getting shocked.  If the light comes on, you win $500.  If not, you get $200.  If you electrocute yourself, priceless!

[NHSparky]

The box will run you about $1/amp generally (a 200 amp box is about $200, etc.).  Figure about $10/circuit for breakers. 

Depending on the size of the box and number of circuits, the job will take from 2-4 hours, including having the power company shut off the juice to the house, unless you have a main disconnect between the meter and the fuse box. 

I had the misfortune of having to replace the one in my house, because the main 200 amp breaker went bad.  A new box was cheaper than just the breaker for the old one.  I usually charge $30-50/hour for electrical work, more if you piss me off and try to tell me how to do my job.    
$400 or so parts and labor sounds about right as a good ballpark figure.

$30/hour?  Dayum--it's hard getting a licensed guy to even answer the phone for less than $75/hour around here...when the ice storm hit in 2008 and the wind storm in February came through, those guys were busy as hell, just pulling off the connections to the main so people could hook up their generators without backfeeding the lines (dipshits didn't learn about transfer panels the first time, I guess.)  $75 to disconnect, and $75 to reconnect was the going rate.  So basically, my transfer switch paid for itself in 2008, and I made money in 2010.

[true_blood]

I never understood the DUmmy mindset on this: People will forgo spending $300.00 on a thorough home inspection prior to purchase then be FORCED to pay thousands for electrical or plumbing corrections after the fact.

The DUmmie way of doing things!

[RobJohnson]

I thought it was required in some places to have a home inspection done before a loan is approved.  It beats spending $7,000 on a new roof.

The bank requires  apprasial and often times the apprasier will note obvious major problems.

The buyer will often pay for the home inspection. Take a look at a couple threads on CU in which SLW's home inspector missed some major stuff that they had to pay to repair or install. Some home inspectors are a joke. I had a real estate agent here in Nevada suggest a home inspection as part of an offer that I made on a Duplex....the inspector just happened to be her husband.  He only charges $300 for each unit.....

Since then I have purchased a home using a different agent and I did my own home inspection with a local contractor. It cost me $50. We checked everything together.

[diesel driver]

My big question is just why in Gods good name would anyone feel the need to replace all the outlets and switches in a condo that was just remodeled 3 years ago? WTF is that all about? Was someone warned that there were electrical problems before buying and they decided that touching the only parts they could see would magically fix everything?

Probably didn't like the color.  Not too many condos come with hot pink outlets.   

[AllosaursRus]

I love how the guy knows he's shorting out the breaker, yet does it AGAIN.  Hello, asshole?  YOU HAVE A ****ING SHORT SOMEWHERE, QUIT ****ING WITH IT AND CALL AN ELECTRICIAN!!!

I worked with a guy in my previous job who was not an electrician (he was a comm tech) who tried to do live work inside a 240 panel.

He's dead now.  Let the qualified licensed contractor do it.  Yes, it will cost you some money.  Yes, the job will almost certainly be done right, and will certainly be done better than you could do it.  NO, you are not equipped to fix the problem you may or may not have found. 

Like I said, someone, somewhere, did some shitty work in that house, and needs their asses kicked.

Oh, and DUmmies?  Very little wiring below the 20 amp level is 12-gauge.  Most is 14, or even 16 in your small appliances.  In my old house, the AC was 10 gauge, and that was even for a 40-amp service.  A lot of it depends on the type on insulation used on the wiring as well.  Even on a 200-amp service, the run from the pole to my meter is 2/0, 3-wire.

Edit--checked the panel--it's 2/0.  Sheesh. 

Heh! My first real 8hr/day 5days/wk job was wiring mobile homes. Did it for about 5 years. Ended up bein' the plants troubleshooter. The electrical department got so far behind once the main panels were bein' wired in Final Finish! They were so far behind I was sent to try and catch them up.

Some DilRod plugged the coach in while I was wirin' the panel! Knocked me clear across the frikkin' room! 220 volts can kick the shit right outa ya! I chased the guy with my framin' hammer all over the plant! He was lucky he found an exit!

[AllosaursRus]

How about you just call condo maintenance if it exists or just call an electrician and be done with. You have either a ground or neutral problem moron. Additionally, the only circuits covered by GFCI's are those outside of the living quarters, (outside & garage), and those near water - kitchen, bathroom, laundry. Pipes have a funny thing of being a hard-core, high-current path to ground which can kill you pretty quick if you become a better path to ground between the toaster and the kitchen faucet. Your living room, bedroom, and closets are NOT covered by GFCI's nor should they be. Your little tester seems to be telling you the issue but being a DUmmy moron, pay an electrician to come in and diagnose the problem and costs to repair it rather than attempting it yourself.
If you think for one minute advise from your fellow DUmmys will fix this, you may as kill yourself now since that is where you will eventually end up.

All states require Ground Faults be installed in the bathroom nowadays. Ever since some DUmbass tried to use a hair dryer in the shower! I think it was in the 80's when they became part of the building code.

[BlueStateSaint]

Ever since some DUmbass tried to use a hair dryer in the shower!

TomInTib . . . 

[debk]

I thought it was required in some places to have a home inspection done before a loan is approved.  It beats spending $7,000 on a new roof.

FHA and VA loans require a one page sheet, with all verbage done by them, regarding home inspections as part of the contract. It goes with the initial offer to the seller, and must be signed by the buyer, whether or not they buyer is having a home inspection.

It's basically a warning, that the buyer should have a home inspection, and that it has been recommended by the real estate agent who writes the offer.

Buyer has to check either "yes, they will have a HI" or "no, they are going against advice".

Signing this has several purposes.

It makes the buyer realize that to have or not to have a home inspection was their own choice.

It notifies the seller that the buyer is going to have either an FHA or VA loan, and the seller will most likely be asked to make mandatory repairs required by FHA or VA.

It covers the real estate agent's tush. Buyer can't say, after purchase and something is wrong, that the agent writing the offer, did not tell them to get a home inspection.

I have another one, for conventional loan buyers to sign, that they chose not to have a home inspection, against agent's advice.

Only ones I don't have sign, for conventional or cash, are investors. Most of them know as much as a home inspector, if they are not first time investors.

[debk]

The box will run you about $1/amp generally (a 200 amp box is about $200, etc.).  Figure about $10/circuit for breakers. 

Depending on the size of the box and number of circuits, the job will take from 2-4 hours, including having the power company shut off the juice to the house, unless you have a main disconnect between the meter and the fuse box. 

I had the misfortune of having to replace the one in my house, because the main 200 amp breaker went bad.  A new box was cheaper than just the breaker for the old one.  I usually charge $30-50/hour for electrical work, more if you piss me off and try to tell me how to do my job.    
$400 or so parts and labor sounds about right as a good ballpark figure.

Dang, Diesel, you need to move down here!!

Electricians are closer to $100/hour here!!!! 

Had to have two electrical panels upgraded from fuse to 200amp's, in houses last year. Estimates were between $1200 and $1500. Seller was an investor who is a builder, and was able to "trade out" some work and got them for around $1000. One house was about 8-900 SF, the other was 11-1200SF, both ranches, all electric, and heat pumps. 

[diesel driver]

Dang, Diesel, you need to move down here!!

Electricians are closer to $100/hour here!!!! 

Had to have two electrical panels upgraded from fuse to 200amp's, in houses last year. Estimates were between $1200 and $1500. Seller was an investor who is a builder, and was able to "trade out" some work and got them for around $1000. One house was about 8-900 SF, the other was 11-1200SF, both ranches, all electric, and heat pumps. 

I only live about 2-3 hours up the road from you on I-81.  I don't do it for a living, more like a hobby.  But if I were so inclined to get my electricians license...   

I have yet to understand why I need a piece of paper to state to the world I know what the hell I'm doing, when I've been doing it longer than the "idiot-in-charge" has been alive, other than to put money in some bureaucrat's pocket.

I've had some of my home wiring ideas incorporated into the local building codes, because they were better and simpler than what was in place originally, AFTER HAVING THE IDIOT BUILDING INSPECTOR REJECT MY WORK BECAUSE IT "WASN'T ACCORDING TO CODE!"  F'n bureaucrats!   

[AllosaursRus]

I only live about 2-3 hours up the road from you on I-81.  I don't do it for a living, more like a hobby.  But if I were so inclined to get my electricians license...   

I have yet to understand why I need a piece of paper to state to the world I know what the hell I'm doing, when I've been doing it longer than the "idiot-in-charge" has been alive, other than to put money in some bureaucrat's pocket.

I've had some of my home wiring ideas incorporated into the local building codes, because they were better and simpler than what was in place originally, AFTER HAVING THE IDIOT BUILDING INSPECTOR REJECT MY WORK BECAUSE IT "WASN'T ACCORDING TO CODE!"  F'n bureaucrats!   

Used to be you could wire your or your buddies house and if it was ****ed up, you eat the loss!

Nowadays, the guy who knows the Mayor, never so much as got dirt under his fingernails, gets to tell ya what works!

I agree, BullShirt!

[debk]

I only live about 2-3 hours up the road from you on I-81.  I don't do it for a living, more like a hobby.  But if I were so inclined to get my electricians license...   

I have yet to understand why I need a piece of paper to state to the world I know what the hell I'm doing, when I've been doing it longer than the "idiot-in-charge" has been alive, other than to put money in some bureaucrat's pocket.

I've had some of my home wiring ideas incorporated into the local building codes, because they were better and simpler than what was in place originally, AFTER HAVING THE IDIOT BUILDING INSPECTOR REJECT MY WORK BECAUSE IT "WASN'T ACCORDING TO CODE!"  F'n bureaucrats!   

To do permitted electrical work, and supposedly any other non-required permit work, inside the city limits, here...the electrician has to be licensed and approved by the city.

If a problem shows up on a home inspection, and the house is inside the city, a city licensed electrician has to do the work, particularly if it's something that an FHA appraiser has to come back out and inspect before an FHA loan goes through. It will usually cost the seller more money too. 

[AllosaursRus]

To do permitted electrical work, and supposedly any other non-required permit work, inside the city limits, here...the electrician has to be licensed and approved by the city.

If a problem shows up on a home inspection, and the house is inside the city, a city licensed electrician has to do the work, particularly if it's something that an FHA appraiser has to come back out and inspect before an FHA loan goes through. It will usually cost the seller more money too. 

For the most part, I could train a monkey to wire a house! Once you get into HVAC it takes some no how, but house wire is as simple as it gets! The plugs and switches are all color coded. Pretty tough to screw it up!

[zeitgeist]

For the most part, I could train a monkey to wire a house! Once you get into HVAC it takes some no how, but house wire is as simple as it gets! The plugs and switches are all color coded. Pretty tough to screw it up!

Remember, we are talking primitives here, not primates.

That said, a few weeks back I was looking at a thread about wiring a "50 amp" motor home plug.  There is no end of people doing strange things and posting about it on the internet. Shocking, yes, but true!!  When in doubt it is always best to have a qualified electrician check your shorts, right sparky?? 

[NHSparky]

Actuallly, zeit--larger (5th wheel, etc) pull travel trailers DO in fact come with 4-wire, 50 amp connections.  Granted, the number of TRAILER PARKS that can supply that might be questionable and asking before making a trip is always a good idea, but rest assured, there are in fact RV hookups that can handle 240v, 50 amps.

http://www.dasplace.net/RVWiring/wiring.html

[zeitgeist]

Actuallly, zeit--larger (5th wheel, etc) pull travel trailers DO in fact come with 4-wire, 50 amp connections.  Granted, the number of TRAILER PARKS that can supply that might be questionable and asking before making a trip is always a good idea, but rest assured, there are in fact RV hookups that can handle 240v, 50 amps.

http://www.dasplace.net/RVWiring/wiring.html

Yup.  And that site is an excellent resource with great advice:

NOTE: Before doing any work on 125 or 250 volt systems, make SURE you know what you are doing.  Electrical panels can be very dangerous to work in.  Never touch any of the main bus lugs in the panel as they can kill you!  The best thing to do is to TURN OFF THE POWER TO THE PANEL before doing any modification or wiring.  If you are not SURE of what you are doing, contact an electrical contractor for help.

I was thinking of having a receptacle (50 amp) added out back and was doing some research on a couple MH boards when I ran across the very link you posted.  Amazing the amount of misinformation available, one board ( dedicated to all things motorhome) had a thread much like this one.

I use to trip a 20 amp with my old home on occasion when getting ready or cleaning up after a trip.  This unit has two roof air so ... unless I run the generator....

[NHSparky]

Yup--and the reason I remember that is because my late father used to travel from jobsite to jobsite and live out of a 38-foot 5th wheel.  Quite nice, actually, but he could only park it at places that had 50-amp drops.  Arizona is not the place to be with a single AC unit, even in Kearny.  Add to that the washer/dryer, fridge, and television...you get the idea.

[zeitgeist]

Yup--and the reason I remember that is because my late father used to travel from jobsite to jobsite and live out of a 38-foot 5th wheel.  Quite nice, actually, but he could only park it at places that had 50-amp drops.  Arizona is not the place to be with a single AC unit, even in Kearny.  Add to that the washer/dryer, fridge, and television...you get the idea.

Lots more parks are putting in 50's .

Not to totally jack this thread but, when they were putting in the gas pipe line around here years ago, a bunch of workers stayed at one of my favorite get away spots with the wives and kids.  They had some great trailers which they pulled with welding trucks or other work trucks.  Pretty practical I thought. 

Man how times have changed. When I was a kid all I had was a pup tent, shovel, hatchet, mess kit, sleeping bag and back pack.

[diesel driver]

Actuallly, zeit--larger (5th wheel, etc) pull travel trailers DO in fact come with 4-wire, 50 amp connections.  Granted, the number of TRAILER PARKS that can supply that might be questionable and asking before making a trip is always a good idea, but rest assured, there are in fact RV hookups that can handle 240v, 50 amps.

http://www.dasplace.net/RVWiring/wiring.html

Carry a volt/ohm meter with you and check the plugs at the hookup.  They are not expensive, I carry one with me all the time, mainly because my truck likes to eat a glow plug now and then, and I can check to see which one is bad in about 5 minutes. 

[NHSparky]

Carry a volt/ohm meter with you and check the plugs at the hookup.  They are not expensive, I carry one with me all the time, mainly because my truck likes to eat a glow plug now and then, and I can check to see which one is bad in about 5 minutes. 

Remember what I do for a living, driver--I've got a Fluke 187.  I don't buy those cheap assed Radio Shack multimeters.  They do NOT hold up under fault conditions.

[zeitgeist]

Remember what I do for a living, driver--I've got a Fluke 187.  I don't buy those cheap assed Radio Shack multimeters.  They do NOT hold up under fault conditions.

Now now, don't diss my cheap a$$ed RS meter. One of these days I plan on learning how to use it for more than continuity on a fuse.  But that said, then lookng at the leads, I doubt I would be sticking it into any live AC circut any time soon .  They don't look too hefty or insulated to me.

I did  have a plug in thing for checking campground plugs but I don't think it would do much more than regular 20 amp stuff.  I think it may have gone with the old unit.

[diesel driver]

Remember what I do for a living, driver--I've got a Fluke 187.  I don't buy those cheap assed Radio Shack multimeters.  They do NOT hold up under fault conditions.

Hey, my "cheap assed" meter (not Radio Shack) has served me well for over 30 years.  It's so old, I can't read the name on it and it has long been rubbed off.  The gauge has a crack in it, but it still works!