primitives discuss electrical problems

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=287x8700

Oh my.

quakerboy  (1000+ posts)      Sun Aug-01-10 01:44 AM
Original message
 
I need Electrical assistance

Here's the scenario... just moved into a condo.

So, downstairs is the kitchen, dining area, a bathroom and a living room. Today, my wife plugged in the vacuum for the first time since moving in. And after a few moments the living room stopped working. All three outlets, the overhead light, and the light right outside the front door. I figured it tripped the breaker, but none of them had flipped. Waited a bit, since the washing machine was in mid run, then flipped all the breakers off and back on. Everything is still stone dead. Which is a problem, since that's where my computer and all related things are. At the moment I am running a daisy chain of power strips from the bathroom over so that I can be here and looking for some idea. There are 4 breakers labeled "lights and outlets". No clue which one it is, although 2 seem to be for upstairs. But none of them are doing anything for the dead outlets.

I dunno if it matters, but the place was built in 71 and converted from apartments to condo's in 07.

What the heck is going on here?

Call a union-card-carrying electrician to deal with it.

amerikat  (1000+ posts)        Sun Aug-01-10 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. Maybe a gfi outlet tripped.

Gfi outlets can be reset fight on the outlet.

Hassin Bin Sober  (1000+ posts)      Sun Aug-01-10 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
 
2. I too would guess it's a GFCI trip.

Keep in mind the plug or plugs/fixtures may be protected by a GFCI somewhere up stream - perhaps in another room. The plug or fixtures could be tied in to the "load" side of the GFCI. This affords GFI protection to the down-stream outlet/fixtures.

I would reset all the GFCI outlets by pressing test then reset.

This is less common but there could be a "dead front" GFI located somewhere that is not actually an outlet. A "dead front" GFCI....basically all it is is a gfci without the plug.

Other than that you may have a bad breaker. You may have to isolate which breaker is bad by process of elimination and change it out.

quakerboy  (1000+ posts)      Sun Aug-01-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
3. There are 3 GFCI

2 bath and one kitchen. All three are working properly, none tripped. In fact, the outlet in the bathroom that I am having to use the power strips to get to is the closest and most likely culprit. And seeing as its making my computer go, its not that one. so I do not think its that.

A dead front: never heard of it, interesting to know, but looking at the overall construction and way things were done here, I would guess they weren't putting any extra money into anything not legally required of them.

As to breaker, I am guessing at best to figure out which breaker this is on. There are 4 that were all labled "lights and plugs". I have added some detail to the labels, via trial. #9 goes to upstairs bath, which is working. #10 goes to bedrooms, and is working. #11 goes to the dining room, and is working. #12 goes to the kitchen, and is working. If I had wired it, the living room would share the circuit with the dining area, due to proximity, and to wanting the kitchen to be on its own circuit as it is likely to have higher usage, but at the moment no way to check it.

Unless my very old high school electrical class knowledge betrays me, the fact that each breaker goes to some area of the house that is currently working should eliminates that as the problem.

I just got a call back from a contractor that I had do some wall work for me. He has been good as gold for every project so far. He suggested that it was probably a loose wire, and that the added load of the vacuum was just enough to pop it out of touch at an outlet. He suggested that I check all of those before getting too freaked out.

Seeing as I personally replaced every outlet in the place when I moved in, I don't want to believe this is the answer. But then Ive met me, so I think my next step is to check the three outlets involved. It scares me to mess with them while they are live, but I am not sure which breaker goes to this room. I suppose it wouldn't be the first time Ive been zapped, and it ain't killed me yet.

Geezuz.

Call a union-card-carrying electrician.

Being a primitive, the quaking primitive's supposed to be supportive of the laboring classes.

Wash. state Desk Jet  (1000+ posts)      Sun Aug-01-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
 
5. You can buy a electrical tester for about five bucks. It is a little plug in with 3 lights on it. That tester will tell you if yer plug is wired wrong,say reverse,or bad ground or no ground ,and if all lights go on ,it is wired correctly.

Your problem is simple, it is either a bad breaker or a bad connection . wired in series no doubt the bad connection is at a plug.

In the room find the end of the run plug, than try to figure where the begin of the run is. Pull all the plugs out and use yer wiggy to test for power. If nothing works -your problem is no doubt at the beginning of the run. You can also check the circuit breaker line out for power,if power leaves the circuit breaker you go to the first plug.

If you changed all the plugs ,one of those testers is handy to have.

Simple, bad breaker or bad connection. Bad connection- at the plugs or in a junction box. Buy yerself a basic electrical book at most any builders supply ,home depot what have you. Better to have the book than it is to try to remember some shop class instructors words of a lesson long ago ! $10.00 you can spare it.

If you really don't know how to find which breaker the room is on, than shut off all 15 and 20 amp. breakers when you check your connections. Get a book.

quakerboy  (1000+ posts)      Sun Aug-01-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
7. I have one of those. 

I even splurged and got the GFCI tester version. It came in handy when I replaced all the outlets.

That said, there's one outlet upstairs that I cannot seem to figure out. The home inspector said it was wired backwards. The tester said something different(something about the neutral, as I recall), and online reading leads me to think it may be a broken wire somewhere. I dunno.

Ive also got books. More than I can handle. My dad collects them, and just dumped a bunch of home repair/maintanance manuals on me. I just don't even know where to start.

quakerboy  (1000+ posts)      Sun Aug-01-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
4. Updated info

Turns out one of the 3 outlets is on the bathroom circuit, so I am now able to close the bathroom door while leaving my computer turned on. Progress!!

Actually, I pulled the other 2 outlets. Both appeared to be firmly seated, and the wires in each read as dead to my tester. I went over to the switch. Its two switches side by side. One goes to the light outside the front door, the other to the overhead lights. The outside switch measured 32 volts.. That didn't seem right. I made sure the wires were firmly seated, then unscrewed the second. It read 121, which is what i have gotten from all the others. Then I noticed that a fan plugged into one of the previously dead outlets was running.. Yay fixed. Except that switch had the wires screwed into place, not inserted into the holes. And they were firmly screwed in, so it couldn't be that I left a wire loose on that switch.

Some experimentation with the breakers shows that the kitchen lights are linked to the downstairs bath and the living room. Odd, but whatever, at least now I know which circuit breaker I am dealing with to not get zapped. But when I flip it back on, I hear a pop from the light switch. And everything is dead again. I walk over, and with it live, I wiggle the outlet. on, pop, spark off. A second time, same thing.

Its a mess of wires in there, and they are all black. And I cannot use the computer while the breaker is turned off. So I am taking a break and thinking about my strategy in dealing with this. I hate electrical work. But at least the problem is localized to one particular nest of wires now. I think its coming from within one of those screw on caps that covers a wire joining. I have no clue what the proper name for those is. I suppose the next step is to pull that off, reseat the wires, and screw it back on.

No, no.

The next step should be calling a union-card-carrying electrician.

The prospect of a primitive dealing with electricity makes franksolich's hair stand up.

Wash. state Desk Jet  (1000+ posts)      Sun Aug-01-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
 
6. wire nuts- get a book !

Thats the junction box. Weak connection.

Contrary to what might, or might not, be popular perception, the desk-washing primitive is NOT franksolich's mole.

Wash. state Desk Jet  (1000+ posts)      Sun Aug-01-10 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
 
8. if your tester said something about neutral that would or could mean neutral and hot reverse which is wired backward. Why wasn't that corrected ?

a plug is gold screws black wire right,and silver screws white wire left, yer ground hole points down.Neutral is return line white back to neutral bus bar at the box.That is in standard 12/2 house wiring .Of course yer copper ground to the green screw on the same side as yer neutral,or the silver screws which should be left as you face the receptacle. See, black hot sending,net rural return to neutral bus bar at the box.ground to ground bus bar at the box. Ground and neutral bus bar one behind the other, get it ? Ground and neutral on same side-left silver screws and one green.The third hole or ground points down . Wired backward means backward or hot neutral reverse. As it says on yer gfi tester.Maybe just two of the four wires are reversed. Unless you six of them in there !

Lets say you replaced fifty plugs in a day, what are the odds you will catch yerself hooking up one or two reverse?

You run across 20 stop signs in secession, what are the odds you will black out one?

if you fallow up with your tester there will be no mistakes. Of course you look it over before you push the plug back in. In electrical talk thats like measure twice,cut once. You don't want to have to go back and do it again.

You mentioned a converted condo building.That also brings to question commercial wiring-bit of a different color code on the wires. So are those wires black -white and copper ground in standard 12/2 house wiring with ground., or black red white and copper ground in 12/3 with ground? Or is there purple and gray yellow so fourth such as in commercial wiring ? Did you go and buy the basic electricity book at home depot I told you to get? It is simple to read and has color illustrated pictures ,between $10.00 and $15.00 dollars.

quakerboy  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-02-10 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #8

9. I have not had a chance to go buy anything today

Seeing as I spent the day putting up one of those sheet metal sheds for a relative. Now I hurt.

The Inspector said they were reversed. The bank wasn't doing anything but sell, no repairs at all. And I have had higher priorities than that outlet. I just ran up and plugged the tester in. The lights read "open neutral"

When I replaced all the outlets, I forgot that that one was not right, so I just wired it exactly as it had been before. Was on my own, with limited time, and the breakers down a set of stairs, so I didn't notice till later.

I'm not sure what the numbers mean, but the wires are black and white, with a copper ground. Nothing more fancy than that. What do the numbers designate? I find the combinations of wires interesting. Different plugs had anywhere from 2 to 5 wires going to them.

In the mean time, I seem to have fixed the downstairs. When I got home, I moved the nest of wires, pulled out the wire grouping in question(4 black all wound together), pulled off the wire nut. They all seemed to be touching and reasonably stuck together, so I tightened that thing back on, and now everything is working. I think it had just come a hair unscrewed, so that one wire was not perfectly placed.

On to the next challenge of this place. So far, both toilets had to be fixed, 2 walls had to be removed, dishwasher leaked, the Washer didn't spin, and now this electrical fun. Maybe sometime this week, with some good leads, I can finally sort out the outlet upstairs. And after that, I will just have to await the next issue with baited breath. Hopefully it will be a while, cause I am tapped out after the unexpected washer and dishwasher issues. The tiles at the entry way(wow, doesn't that sound deceivingly grandiose) need to be replaced, all cracked, but for now a rug will have to suffice, as that is a cosmetic, noncritical issue.

Wash. state Desk Jet  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-02-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
 
10. Unless you have more than one circuit going into the plug, you will have one hot going in the others are going out to feed other locations. The only other exception is more than one circuit or hot lead going in. If thats the case than there is a copper strap what connects the two receptacles together. on the hot side =gold you break that connection and by doing so,the top plug is wired into one circuit and the bottom another. The rest of the wires if there are any ,feed other locations-light,plugs so fourth.

But for now, two circuits going into a plug is over yer head until you get the book.In fact that might be a little advanced.

When you disconnect all wires ,the first thing you do is find the hot lead. You shut off the breaker disconnect the wires,cap those off with wire nuts ,for a single wire 12 gage the yellow caps work ,when joining wires you use red.

After the wires are capped, and you might make yerself a diagram since you don't already know. Than turn the breaker on and return with wiggy. The wiggy simply tells yer 220 or 110. you find the hot wire. That is the feed in.

Now unless the copper strap is broken between the the top and bottom plug, there is only one hot in.When there are 4 wires plus ground, one hot in,and the other two are going out-out to feed or supply another outlet-thats called series wiring. Could feed a light switch than from switch to light or fan .Five wires is out going to two places.Of course yer wondering where is the other white wire. {?} hua ? Get a book.

It is always better to know than it is to think that you know.

Now, since yer building was built ,codes have changed about those plugs. You can no longer buy the plugs with all the holes in the back to except 12 gage wire,only 14 gage. So if it's 12 gage,than you buy a special plug with screws-gold and silver ! With that plug you can wire in 6 wires ! Or 5 ! See, black -gold screws-neutral-silver screws ,copper ground-green screw. Now, the book will show yer a illustrated picture of it.

That book is not electrical wiring projects fer dummies. Those books are designed fer do it yer selfers home repair . You buy that book at yer local builders supply,like home depot. The illustrated color pictures assist in getting yer you to view it.Like try'en to recall what yer old shop teacher was say'en why back when ! you didn't really know than and you don't know now, look at it that way. That is just what confuses people, trying to envision it, view it in their minds eye.

The pictures are there so that you don't confuse yerself. I won't go into lousy writers those cooperations hire to write out direction easy enough fer most people to understand. That would be a whole different project. Don't have time ! But in those do it yer selfer books, the words and the pictures show you how to do it and what not to do.

It is always better to know than it is to think that you know--now, that is so franksolichean.

Stinky The Clown  (1000+ posts)        Tue Aug-03-10 12:24 AM
THE SPARKLING HUSBAND PRIMITIVE, #05 TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Original message

11. Given that construction date, I'm going to make a worst case guess: Aluminum Wire

It has been used for a long time, but the installations in the mid 60s to early/mid 70s were particularly problematic. Connections failed. The wire even failed in the middle of a run. What you're facing sounds like it could be failed aluminum wiring.

If you can, look inside an outlet box or switch to see what the wire is made of. If you're unsure, call an electrician. If you find aluminum, call an electrician. If you can't find out why the power failed, call an electrician.

If I were you, I'd call an electrician.

quakerboy  (1000+ posts)      Tue Aug-03-10 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
 
12. Thanks for the thought

Fortunately, not Al wire. Copper. As best I can tell, there was a wire nut that was not seated correctly, and the extra load of the vacuum on that circuit created just enough heat/energy to break that connection and cause the problem. 4 wires together, one shorter than the rest. I am guessing that was the hot line in from the panel, being connected to all the other parts of the circuit(2 switches and the outlets). Once I pulled the wire nut, and reseated it more firmly, everything works the way its supposed to.

Thanks for that thought though. I would like to think I would have caught Aluminum wire before we took the place, but sometimes I miss the obvious.

[NHSparky]

4 wires nutted together?  The entire downstairs off one breaker, including bathroom?  Sounds like there's an electrician out there who needs his ass royally kicked.  Or whoever PRETENDED to be an electrician.

[diesel driver]

DUmmies and electricity.   

Now that would make for some good entertainment.   

The only thing DUmmies know less about than reality is electricity.

I have wired everything from houses to silo unloaders and automated feeders to assorted computerized farm equipment, both single and three-phase.

There is one rule I always stood by:  Always have a healthy respect for electricity.  Because the more you respect it, the longer you will stay healthy.

[NHSparky]

I love how the guy knows he's shorting out the breaker, yet does it AGAIN.  Hello, asshole?  YOU HAVE A ****ING SHORT SOMEWHERE, QUIT ****ING WITH IT AND CALL AN ELECTRICIAN!!!

I worked with a guy in my previous job who was not an electrician (he was a comm tech) who tried to do live work inside a 240 panel.

He's dead now.  Let the qualified licensed contractor do it.  Yes, it will cost you some money.  Yes, the job will almost certainly be done right, and will certainly be done better than you could do it.  NO, you are not equipped to fix the problem you may or may not have found.  

Like I said, someone, somewhere, did some shitty work in that house, and needs their asses kicked.

Oh, and DUmmies?  Very little wiring below the 20 amp level is 12-gauge.  Most is 14, or even 16 in your small appliances.  In my old house, the AC was 10 gauge, and that was even for a 40-amp service.  A lot of it depends on the type on insulation used on the wiring as well.  Even on a 200-amp service, the run from the pole to my meter is 2/0, 3-wire.

Edit--checked the panel--it's 2/0.  Sheesh. 

[diesel driver]

quakerboy  (1000+ posts)      Mon Aug-02-10 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #8

9. I have not had a chance to go buy anything today

Seeing as I spent the day putting up one of those sheet metal sheds for a relative. Now I hurt.

The Inspector said they were reversed. The bank wasn't doing anything but sell, no repairs at all. And I have had higher priorities than that outlet. I just ran up and plugged the tester in. The lights read "open neutral"

So, you were trying to get the bank to front the cost for repairing your condo.  Typical DUmmie, trying to get something for nothing.

When I replaced all the outlets, I forgot that that one was not right, so I just wired it exactly as it had been before. Was on my own, with limited time, and the breakers down a set of stairs, so I didn't notice till later.

Changing outlets is not outside the mechanical ability of most persons, HOWEVER, one must assume that the outlets were wired correctly to begin with.

I'm not sure what the numbers mean, but the wires are black and white, with a copper ground. Nothing more fancy than that. What do the numbers designate? I find the combinations of wires interesting. Different plugs had anywhere from 2 to 5 wires going to them.

 
The numbers relate to the size of the wire in gauge (higher numbers=smaller wire and vise versa) and the number of insulated wires in the bundle.  12/2 w/ground will have 2 insulated 12 gauge wires with an uninsulated ground.  12/3 will have 3 insulated wires in the bundle.  Usually, the 2 insulated wires will be black and white, and in a 110 volt household application, the black will be hot, white neutral, and the bare wire, ground.  For 240 volts, both the black and white will be hot.  3 phase power will have 3 hot wires usually red, black, and white.

In the mean time, I seem to have fixed the downstairs. When I got home, I moved the nest of wires, pulled out the wire grouping in question(4 black all wound together), pulled off the wire nut. They all seemed to be touching and reasonably stuck together, so I tightened that thing back on, and now everything is working. I think it had just come a hair unscrewed, so that one wire was not perfectly placed.

Whoever the DUmbass what wired 4 wires together should have their license revoked, their ass kicked, or both.
I NEVER, NEVER wire more than 2 together, and if you need to wire more than 2, RUN MORE WIRE and install another breaker.  Wire is cheap, fires are not.

On to the next challenge of this place. So far, both toilets had to be fixed, 2 walls had to be removed, dishwasher leaked, the Washer didn't spin, and now this electrical fun. Maybe sometime this week, with some good leads, I can finally sort out the outlet upstairs. And after that, I will just have to await the next issue with baited breath. Hopefully it will be a while, cause I am tapped out after the unexpected washer and dishwasher issues. The tiles at the entry way(wow, doesn't that sound deceivingly grandiose) need to be replaced, all cracked, but for now a rug will have to suffice, as that is a cosmetic, noncritical issue.

Welcome to the real world of home ownership, DUmbass.

[diesel driver]

I love how the guy knows he's shorting out the breaker, yet does it AGAIN.  Hello, asshole?  YOU HAVE A ****ING SHORT SOMEWHERE, QUIT ****ING WITH IT AND CALL AN ELECTRICIAN!!!

I worked with a guy in my previous job who was not an electrician (he was a comm tech) who tried to do live work inside a 240 panel.

He's dead now.  Let the qualified licensed contractor do it.  Yes, it will cost you some money.  Yes, the job will almost certainly be done right, and will certainly be done better than you could do it.  NO, you are not equipped to fix the problem you may or may not have found.  

Like I said, someone, somewhere, did some shitty work in that house, and needs their asses kicked.

Oh, and DUmmies?  Very little wiring below the 20 amp level is 12-gauge.  Most is 14, or even 16 in your small appliances.  In my old house, the AC was 10 gauge, and that was even for a 40-amp service.  A lot of it depends on the type on insulation used on the wiring as well.  Even on a 200-amp service, the run from the pole to my meter is 4 gauge, 3-wire.

I used 4/0 gauge entrance wire for my 200 amp service.  You sure it's 4 gauge, and not 4/0, which is about as big as your pinkie finger.  4 gauge sounds small to me.

Nevermind, I see where you fixed it.  2/0 in copper is fine for 200 amp service.

[true_blood]

I love how the guy knows he's shorting out the breaker, yet does it AGAIN.  Hello, asshole?  YOU HAVE A ****ING SHORT SOMEWHERE, QUIT ****ING WITH IT AND CALL AN ELECTRICIAN!!!

HA HA! Gotta love those DUmmies!

[JLO]

I love how the guy knows he's shorting out the breaker, yet does it AGAIN.  Hello, asshole?  YOU HAVE A ****ING SHORT SOMEWHERE, QUIT ****ING WITH IT AND CALL AN ELECTRICIAN!!!

I worked with a guy in my previous job who was not an electrician (he was a comm tech) who tried to do live work inside a 240 panel.

He's dead now.  Let the qualified licensed contractor do it.  Yes, it will cost you some money.  Yes, the job will almost certainly be done right, and will certainly be done better than you could do it.  NO, you are not equipped to fix the problem you may or may not have found.  

Like I said, someone, somewhere, did some shitty work in that house, and needs their asses kicked.

Yup, indeed - I get it - our house was built by a "so-called electrician" and what a joke!   When we moved in, several switches were permanently TAPED off.  The fuse box was a tangle of snakes.  Who thinks to check that - not us before buying.  Everything is fine now AFTER we hired a real electrition many times over.      

[Ballygrl]

They really need to read this board, it's very informative.

[NHSparky]

I used 4/0 gauge entrance wire for my 200 amp service.  You sure it's 4 gauge, and not 4/0, which is about as big as your pinkie finger.  4 gauge sounds small to me.

Nevermind, I see where you fixed it.  2/0 in copper is fine for 200 amp service.

Yeah, once you get into the main panel, it all drops pretty quickly.  Even the stove and dryer breakers are 40-amp, meaning they're probably an 8 gauge.  But I know my bedroom/basement/outlet stuff is all 14 gauge, which makes running a 10,000 BTU window A/C unit a real treat.  Watch the lights go way dim when the compressor kicks in...lol.

[NHSparky]

Yup, indeed - I get it - our house was built by a "so-called electrician" and what a joke!   When we moved in, several switches were permanently TAPED off.  The fuse box was a tangle of snakes.  Who thinks to check that - not us before buying.  Everything is fine now AFTER we hired a real electrition many times over.      

Any purchase of a home should include a thorough inspection.  Any competent inspector would have found and reported that.  You got screwed.

[diesel driver]

They really need to read this board, it's very informative.

Never happen, mainly because conservatives know how to do for themselves, whereas DUmmies need a government program to wipe their asses for them.

[BattleHymn]

Diesel,

In your opinion, what would be a fair price to switch out a fuse box to a modern breaker box in a home?  I am looking to have that done to my home. 

I know when I am in over my head- my specialty is automobiles, not home electrics! 

[PatriotGame]

Call a union-card-carrying electrician to deal with it.

Who do you think wired the place?

[NHSparky]

Diesel,

In your opinion, what would be a fair price to switch out a fuse box to a modern breaker box in a home?  I am looking to have that done to my home.  

I know when I am in over my head- my specialty is automobiles, not home electrics!  

If I were you, do it just like you do automotive repairs or bodywork--get a couple of estimates.  Do NOT be afraid to ask for their credentials (licensed and bonded at a minimum), and check with the state to see if they have any complaints against them.

The last electrical work I did was installing a transfer panel for the generator.  Had I paid someone to do it, it would have run about $150-200.  Switching over your fuse box to a breaker panel, however, is a bit more daunting.

What amp service do you currently have?  How many fuses/loads?  How long a run?  How old is the remaining wiring, or will you have to add new wiring to conform to GFCI requirements?  All of that comes into play.

To get your panel up to a minimum 100-amp service (assuming no significant additional wiring needed) will run you about $1000.  To upgrade to a 200-amp service will probably run you $1500-2000.  Again, contact a couple of licensed electricians, and get a quote detailing what they will and won't do for a given price.

ETA: The transfer panel itself was about $150.  Mounting and wiring was actually pretty easy, but still would run $150-200 to have someone do it for you.

[PatriotGame]

quakerboy  (1000+ posts)      Sun Aug-01-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
3. There are 3 GFCI

2 bath and one kitchen. All three are working properly, none tripped. In fact, the outlet in the bathroom that I am having to use the power strips to get to is the closest and most likely culprit. And seeing as its making my computer go, its not that one. so I do not think its that.

How about you just call condo maintenance if it exists or just call an electrician and be done with. You have either a ground or neutral problem moron. Additionally, the only circuits covered by GFCI's are those outside of the living quarters, (outside & garage), and those near water - kitchen, bathroom, laundry. Pipes have a funny thing of being a hard-core, high-current path to ground which can kill you pretty quick if you become a better path to ground between the toaster and the kitchen faucet. Your living room, bedroom, and closets are NOT covered by GFCI's nor should they be. Your little tester seems to be telling you the issue but being a DUmmy moron, pay an electrician to come in and diagnose the problem and costs to repair it rather than attempting it yourself.
If you think for one minute advise from your fellow DUmmys will fix this, you may as kill yourself now since that is where you will eventually end up.

[Ballygrl]

Diesel,

In your opinion, what would be a fair price to switch out a fuse box to a modern breaker box in a home?  I am looking to have that done to my home. 

I know when I am in over my head- my specialty is automobiles, not home electrics!

Can you tell me why all of a sudden the Theft light went on in our 2002 Mercury Sable and the alarm was going off? we lost 1 of the original keys, it's a key with a chip in it, had a copy made (not at the dealership) and the car was working, hubby and I went out earlier, came home, about a half hour later it started going off, any ideas why? and how to disable it? we googled and tried everything they said and the light is still flashing.

Thanks!

[PatriotGame]

I love how the guy knows he's shorting out the breaker, yet does it AGAIN.  Hello, asshole?  YOU HAVE A ****ING SHORT SOMEWHERE, QUIT ****ING WITH IT AND CALL AN ELECTRICIAN!!!

I worked with a guy in my previous job who was not an electrician (he was a comm tech) who tried to do live work inside a 240 panel.

He's dead now.  Let the qualified licensed contractor do it.  Yes, it will cost you some money.  Yes, the job will almost certainly be done right, and will certainly be done better than you could do it.  NO, you are not equipped to fix the problem you may or may not have found.  

Like I said, someone, somewhere, did some shitty work in that house, and needs their asses kicked.

Oh, and DUmmies?  Very little wiring below the 20 amp level is 12-gauge.  Most is 14, or even 16 in your small appliances.  In my old house, the AC was 10 gauge, and that was even for a 40-amp service.  A lot of it depends on the type on insulation used on the wiring as well.  Even on a 200-amp service, the run from the pole to my meter is 2/0, 3-wire.

Edit--checked the panel--it's 2/0.  Sheesh. 

No doubt!

Me? I would sell the place tomorrow!
The guy admits to replacing '50' receptacles and now this crap? Two obvious issues here: He has some of his own wiring/receptacles wrong and at some point in time some other DUmmy screwed the pooch with the electrical systems in his condo. Reading further, the guy is a real moran that can't avoid 'crossing his wires'! HE IS FRACKING CONTINUALLY CLOSING BREAKERS that cause light switches to "pop" or immediately re-open?

This numb-nuts is going to "fiddle" with this shit until it "seems" stable then continue to use it all thinking he fixed the problems. Then, one day, at 2 AM, he will wake up - on fire - then blame Bush.

[PatriotGame]

Any purchase of a home should include a thorough inspection.  Any competent inspector would have found and reported that.  You got screwed.

I never understood the DUmmy mindset on this: People will forgo spending $300.00 on a thorough home inspection prior to purchase then be FORCED to pay thousands for electrical or plumbing corrections after the fact.

[Chris_]

I thought it was required in some places to have a home inspection done before a loan is approved.  It beats spending $7,000 on a new roof.

[NHSparky]

I never understood the DUmmy mindset on this: People will forgo spending $300.00 on a thorough home inspection prior to purchase then be FORCED to pay thousands for electrical or plumbing corrections after the fact.

And what's worse, is that even if you have a home warranty as part of the sale, problems such as that are often not covered under it.

[Randy]

My big question is just why in Gods good name would anyone feel the need to replace all the outlets and switches in a condo that was just remodeled 3 years ago? WTF is that all about? Was someone warned that there were electrical problems before buying and they decided that touching the only parts they could see would magically fix everything?

[diesel driver]

Can you tell me why all of a sudden the Theft light went on in our 2002 Mercury Sable and the alarm was going off? we lost 1 of the original keys, it's a key with a chip in it, had a copy made (not at the dealership) and the car was working, hubby and I went out earlier, came home, about a half hour later it started going off, any ideas why? and how to disable it? we googled and tried everything they said and the light is still flashing.

Thanks!

No ideas about the car.  My Jeep has keys with the chips in them, it won't run without them, it'll just start, run a couple of seconds, and quit.  There is a procedure to "code" new keys to your car, but it varies from make to make.  I don't know about yours, but blanks for my Jeep cost $20-40 bucks each!

You might try unhooking the negative side of the battery overnight.  On older (pre OBD II) cars, that would reset the engine computer, but I don't know if it works on newer ones.

It could be that the key was not coded to the car, and it now thinks its been "stolen".  This may be a job for a dealer mechanic, who will probably charge you $200 to do something simple that takes about 30 seconds, to hook up the dealer's diagnostic computer and flash the ECU.  My Jeep had a ABS brake sensor go out, and the light stayed on even after I replaced it.  The dealer had to reset the code for that one, my scanner would not.

[diesel driver]

Diesel,

In your opinion, what would be a fair price to switch out a fuse box to a modern breaker box in a home?  I am looking to have that done to my home. 

I know when I am in over my head- my specialty is automobiles, not home electrics! 

The box will run you about $1/amp generally (a 200 amp box is about $200, etc.).  Figure about $10/circuit for breakers. 

Depending on the size of the box and number of circuits, the job will take from 2-4 hours, including having the power company shut off the juice to the house, unless you have a main disconnect between the meter and the fuse box. 

I had the misfortune of having to replace the one in my house, because the main 200 amp breaker went bad.  A new box was cheaper than just the breaker for the old one.  I usually charge $30-50/hour for electrical work, more if you piss me off and try to tell me how to do my job.    
$400 or so parts and labor sounds about right as a good ballpark figure.

[JohnnyReb]

Tune in next week when we learn how to run the old "My Condo Just Burned Scam" for fun and profit.

DUmmie should stand in a tub of salt water and stick wet finger in a light socket....he needs more electroshock therapy.