primitive wants to keep peace with neighbor

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=287x6934

Oh my.

But franksolich is curious; how can a primitive possibly own such a piece of property in this Bush economy, the worst economy since the Decline and Fall of Rome?

OnionPatch  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sat Sep-20-08 02:27 PM
Original message

My neighbor is violating zoning and property laws.
   
Both ours and our neighbor's property is adjacent to a wooded county park. In southern California, it's somewhat rare to be able to be so close to a natural area, and this is the reason why we paid extra for this property. It's a somewhat rural area with minimum one-acre lots. We have been trilled to have this secluded, natural lot.

Then someone bought the property next door and brought their bulldozer in. First he destroyed our view toward his property with his construction yard, which I'm sure is against zoning in the first place. But it's his property, and he's been very nice to us, so we planted trees and tried to forget about it.

But now, he's trucked in thousands of dollars of fill dirt to extend his lot out into the forest at least 150 feet. He's denuded the vegetation not only behind his lot, but it's creeping into the forest area behind our lot now!!

And he's parked his giant motor home on it, so now, instead of looking at a forest, we are looking at a parking lot with a giant RV in it.

This man has been very nice and generous to us. He's given us some excess building materials and such that he no longer needed. We've been on fairly friendly terms with him, but this is starting to be too much. We want to turn him in, but we are the only people who can see what he's doing, so he'll know it's us who turned him in. I'm so worried that this will start a horrible rift and make our lives hell. This man is going to lose thousands of dollars he's spent to create his little parking lot and he's going to be fuming if he has to clean it up and restore it.

But also, he's ruining our property value and the visual aesthetics of our property. (Not to mention the constant noise of the bulldozer.) What would you do? Should we leave an anonymous tip for the park ranger? Maybe the ranger can say he found it when he was walking a nearby trail? What would you do?

I didn't know where else to post this. I just wanted an outside opinion. Do we sacrifice our view and property value to keep peace with the neighbor? I'm leaning toward no.

Wash. state Desk Jet  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sat Sep-20-08 03:02 PM
Response to Original message

1. You want the county out to your property to define or redefine boundaries. Your neighbor knows what he is doing is wrong but does not think there is anything wrong with it. It's just that way. The gifts of building materials is a form of grooming ,that's just what they do. He thinks your getting something out of it so you will go along with it.

Understand this, he will not stop until he is stopped.He wants what he wants and cares about nothing else.

If he were respectable, he will have shown you the building plans long before construction began. What you got next next door to you is a predator. Tell him I said so. The county surveyors will determine just how far he crossed the line. And he is no doubt working without all the proper permits and most likely filed bogus building plans ,which means he is no doubt in violation of multiple code violations.

This matter may very well belong in front of the city attorney or the county attorney. There is no doubt that there are very many state violations involved. Remember, he will not stop until he is stopped.

If you are in doubt, ask him to show you the building plans in blue print along with all building permits. He is obligated to do that upon request.

And further obligated to explain it all to you in a language you can understand.

Remember this, groomers are lier's.And if you have any questions ,just ask.

Have had my fair share of battles with that type in the construction industry. It's about law and conscience.

Lying groomer predators have no conscience, and no regards for law . For them it's not about right or wrong ,what is legal or not ,or even what is way too far. It about what they want nothing more. They take what they want.

OK so, check it out first, than do what is necessary and of good conscience. And remember ,groomers are professional lier's, they only show you what they want you to see.

Unless of course you think his not telling you up front in a honest way what his intentions are was a just a little over site !

Building plans with full detailed verbal discripion of his intentions and all building permits. You want to see his surveyors report of the boundries and have him show you the stakes in the ground marking the parameter of his lot, that must be in direct line with county or city records.,along with his buildinmg permits.

If he ask's you to bear with him on this, Just say no ! Than turn around and turn him in !!

That's the L.A. answer!

He's a smog miser, he's trying to choke you out.

OnionPatch  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sat Sep-20-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #1

2. This is what my husband says, exactly.
   
(Is that you, Honey?)

I have to admit that I'm a little worried about retribution, but what can he do? My husband could make chip chop ham out of him if it came to that, and the law is not on his side.

I just don't understand why he thought this was acceptable. He invested this money in bringing in all this fill dirt, assuming we would do nothing.

My husband is going to talk to someone at the park. He knows a ranger over there. I hope this works out ok.

Wash. state Desk Jet  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sat Sep-20-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #2

3. Your neighbor has far more to worry about than you do about that. Never under mind the land grabbing predator. If you think that, the predator no doubt rely on you worrying about retribution, least you would about his hidden fears about that. Oh, he Kidd's himself about it no doubt,but he moves forward with his building plans each day taking more and forgetting his worries about it the day before.

The last land grabber I took on had added to his back yard three times over the years. His property boarder-ed privet property and a public trail a stretch of land known as the Burk Gilman trail , a hiking path belonging to the public. At the time I worked for a developer who owned the property the land grabber stole. That land is to be donated to the university ., or be transformed into a public park.

The land grabber thought the property that he stole was his to take because he thought the owner was to old to remember!

The land grabber lost half of a very sizable back yard! I took it back!

And I cut down a tree with a very rich looking tree house in it to start the show!

Than I cleared all the over growth on the developers property. AKA buffer zone for some very rich people who's homes are at the top of the embankment.

Oh I had state patrol,sheriffs department people ,city police ,parks police ,building inspectors, anywhere those people could think to call and complain.

And the developer had a army of lawyers standing ready to sue all the home owners on the hill for stealing his land ! All the cops ran away! One name, JACK ! That was one interesting summer !

OnionPatch  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sat Sep-20-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #3

4. Well, the wheels are in motion to stop this guy.
   
The park ranger was livid when he was told about this. He checked it out this afternoon and he's going to report it. He seems quite determined that this will be stopped. And he promised anonymity for us. It's sort of a lucky coincidence that a group of park workers were clearing brush from a trail not far from the neighbor's little operation. It will very much seem like they just happened upon it during their work.

It's just unbelievable to me that someone would invest so much money in such a risky adventure. Surely they must realize how high the chances are that they will be caught and fined and all their work gone to naught. Heck, even if someone didn't turn him in, the county would be able to see the bulldozer scars on Google Earth eventually. They have a pretty good GIS department that they keep updated regularly. Where do people like this get off thinking they can just take public lands?

Wash. state Desk Jet  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sat Sep-20-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #4

5. Thats a start.
   
stay on top of progress.The parks department is one aspect of the many violations you neighbor is no doubt committing his crimes around. You must be prepared to round his clock. Is he just destorting your view,or does he aim to make your view his own only ?

OnionPatch  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sun Sep-21-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #5

6. He's distorting our view. Not all of it, just some.
   
But still, my property is more valuable than other homes in the neighborhood because it borders this forested park area, and every foot of the park view is added-value to my property. He's stealing value from my property because the parking lot (or whatever it is) he created is bulging out into the park behind our property, too. But hopefully we can stay out of this and the park can stop him, since it's their property. They would have more concerns than a view. This particular park property is a riparian area and also a wildlife corridor. He's filled in a small dry creekbed that will create silt and runoff into the larger, permanent creek below. So there are environmental concerns as well.

Well, thanks for your input. I'll post back when something happens. I guess the rangers can't talk to anyone higher up until Monday.

Wash. state Desk Jet  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sun Sep-21-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #6

7. Parks is the state of California.
   
And that's the big E. This explains the grooming where he figures you get something out of it so you will go along with it. He won't come right out and ask you to say nothing about the land grabbing thing.

Distorting your view is a different thing. He should have and by law if I am not mistaken demonstrated his plans to you ,showing and telling you exactly what his building plans are and how it will effect your property or the setting.There are building code violations involved .No doubt the state will investigate further into what your neighbor is about.

I would guess you will be receiving some confidential phone calls on the subject line.

Best of luck.

OnionPatch  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sun Sep-21-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #7

8. It's a county park.
   
So it would be a county matter. But I can't imagine the county will allow this man to take their land any more than the state would. Heck, you can't even go in there without paying an admission fee.

We'll see how it all pans out. He's still down there pushing the dirt around with his bulldozer.

Wash. state Desk Jet  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Mon Sep-22-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #8

9. His building permits have to be on file with the county . Are you in city limits or rural ? This construction going on entitles you a look at his building plans ,you should call land permits and building permits ,talk to a building inspector over the phone and inquire about having a look at those proposed building plans and permits connected to those blue prints. That's not the same as filing a complaint. You will be anonymous talking with the county licensing ,and building permits and inspection services.

Has that man even bothered to tell you of what he is going to build ?

I'll keep an eye out for what comes out of this.

And if you have any construction associated questions,feel free to ask.

goddess40  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Wed Sep-24-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message

10. he smiles to your face and stabs you in the back
   
My guess if he finds out you don't like what he's doing you'll see the real him emerge. Leave the anonymous tip and see what happens.

Given the never-ending plight of the perpetually-homeless bobbling primitive, doesn't it seem petty of the primitive to be complaining about this?

[Carl]

I would say it is downright fascist that this primitive has the gall to want their property to be more valuable then anyone elses.

They should immediately render their property worthless so that they do not have more then then anyone else.

It would seem they should be grateful to this neighbor for enforcing the basic law of Marxism/socialism on them.

[Chris_]

y husband could make chip chop ham out of him if it came to that, and the law is not on his side.

Yeah -- hubbie could throw his wig with the built-in pony-tail at the neighbor!  That'll make him chip chop!!

[Chris]

y husband could make chip chop ham out of him if it came to that, and the law is not on his side.

Yeah -- hubbie could throw his wig with the built-in pony-tail at the neighbor!  That'll make him chip chop!!

Getting into fist-fights with your neighbors over property disputes is a great way to get everybody on your side of the issue.

Good to see they're as dumb off-line as they are on-line.  At least they're consistent.

[Chris_]

I'm a land surveyor so I get to see land feuds all the time. People don't realize how much money they would save in court costs and attorney fees if they did two simple things. The first is have your property properly surveyed so that you know where YOUR boundaries are. The second, and possibly the most important, is to be willing to POLITELY discuss land line/property matters with your neighbor.

Just yesterday I surveyed a house that is in a subdivision where the lots are priced somewhere between $160000 to $200000. The house was recently build. Almost half of it is on the wrong lot.

[whiffleball]

I'm a land surveyor so I get to see land feuds all the time. People don't realize how much money they would save in court costs and attorney fees if they did two simple things. The first is have your property properly surveyed so that you know where YOUR boundaries are. The second, and possibly the most important, is to be willing to POLITELY discuss land line/property matters with your neighbor.

Just yesterday I surveyed a house that is in a subdivision where the lots are priced somewhere between $160000 to $200000. The house was recently build. Almost half of it is on the wrong lot.

Your words should be engraved somewhere!  For some reason surveys are being skipped a lot in home purchases.  With our last two homes we had to mention a survey and both times our realtors looked at us like we had each grown two heads.  Both said that buyers hadn't been getting them.  Why would anyone buy property without a survey?  It isn't as if it's expensive.

[Chris_]

I'm a land surveyor so I get to see land feuds all the time. People don't realize how much money they would save in court costs and attorney fees if they did two simple things. The first is have your property properly surveyed so that you know where YOUR boundaries are. The second, and possibly the most important, is to be willing to POLITELY discuss land line/property matters with your neighbor.

Just yesterday I surveyed a house that is in a subdivision where the lots are priced somewhere between $160000 to $200000. The house was recently build. Almost half of it is on the wrong lot.

Your words should be engraved somewhere!  For some reason surveys are being skipped a lot in home purchases.  With our last two homes we had to mention a survey and both times our realtors looked at us like we had each grown two heads.  Both said that buyers hadn't been getting them.  Why would anyone buy property without a survey?  It isn't as if it's expensive.

I've done three surveys in the last three months that have had houses across the line. Two of them, like the house I mentioned in my previous post were new houses. The other was a house that had been foreclosed on. While I was doing my research before the survey I found that the mortgage had been transferred to about three different companies during the 15 year life of the home. None required a survey.

The most interesting case I've come across was a lady who had a 40' wide lot. Her house was 50' wide. When she received my plat showing the house across the line she hit the roof. She called and informed me in no uncertain terms that my survey and plat were wrong because her house wasn't across the line. I asked if she denied her lot only being 40' wide, and she said she didn't. I then asked if she denied her house being 50' wide, and she said she didn't. Then I asked if she agreed that 50 was larger than 40, and she said she did agree but that her house still wasn't across the line. I told her to contact another survey for a second opinion and if I was wrong I'd refund her payment. She's never called back.

[whiffleball]

I'm a land surveyor so I get to see land feuds all the time. People don't realize how much money they would save in court costs and attorney fees if they did two simple things. The first is have your property properly surveyed so that you know where YOUR boundaries are. The second, and possibly the most important, is to be willing to POLITELY discuss land line/property matters with your neighbor.

Just yesterday I surveyed a house that is in a subdivision where the lots are priced somewhere between $160000 to $200000. The house was recently build. Almost half of it is on the wrong lot.

Your words should be engraved somewhere!  For some reason surveys are being skipped a lot in home purchases.  With our last two homes we had to mention a survey and both times our realtors looked at us like we had each grown two heads.  Both said that buyers hadn't been getting them.  Why would anyone buy property without a survey?  It isn't as if it's expensive.

I've done three surveys in the last three months that have had houses across the line. Two of them, like the house I mentioned in my previous post were new houses. The other was a house that had been foreclosed on. While I was doing my research before the survey I found that the mortgage had been transferred to about three different companies during the 15 year life of the home. None required a survey.

The most interesting case I've come across was a lady who had a 40' wide lot. Her house was 50' wide. When she received my plat showing the house across the line she hit the roof. She called and informed me in no uncertain terms that my survey and plat were wrong because her house wasn't across the line. I asked if she denied her lot only being 40' wide, and she said she didn't. I then asked if she denied her house being 50' wide, and she said she didn't. Then I asked if she agreed that 50 was larger than 40, and she said she did agree but that her house still wasn't across the line. I told her to contact another survey for a second opinion and if I was wrong I'd refund her payment. She's never called back.

I know that must have been a PITA to deal with, but your story made me chuckle at the stupidity of the woman.  Thanks!

[bijou]

I'm a land surveyor so I get to see land feuds all the time. People don't realize how much money they would save in court costs and attorney fees if they did two simple things. The first is have your property properly surveyed so that you know where YOUR boundaries are. The second, and possibly the most important, is to be willing to POLITELY discuss land line/property matters with your neighbor.

Just yesterday I surveyed a house that is in a subdivision where the lots are priced somewhere between $160000 to $200000. The house was recently build. Almost half of it is on the wrong lot.

Your words should be engraved somewhere!  For some reason surveys are being skipped a lot in home purchases.  With our last two homes we had to mention a survey and both times our realtors looked at us like we had each grown two heads.  Both said that buyers hadn't been getting them.  Why would anyone buy property without a survey?  It isn't as if it's expensive.

I've done three surveys in the last three months that have had houses across the line. Two of them, like the house I mentioned in my previous post were new houses. The other was a house that had been foreclosed on. While I was doing my research before the survey I found that the mortgage had been transferred to about three different companies during the 15 year life of the home. None required a survey.

The most interesting case I've come across was a lady who had a 40' wide lot. Her house was 50' wide. When she received my plat showing the house across the line she hit the roof. She called and informed me in no uncertain terms that my survey and plat were wrong because her house wasn't across the line. I asked if she denied her lot only being 40' wide, and she said she didn't. I then asked if she denied her house being 50' wide, and she said she didn't. Then I asked if she agreed that 50 was larger than 40, and she said she did agree but that her house still wasn't across the line. I told her to contact another survey for a second opinion and if I was wrong I'd refund her payment. She's never called back.

It must be like TV, the house is obviously wider on a plan than it is in real life.  I would never even contemplate buying a property without a survey and legal searches, and I'm amazed that any financial institution short of the mafia would agree tp lend money without a survey.

[Chris_]

I'm a land surveyor so I get to see land feuds all the time. People don't realize how much money they would save in court costs and attorney fees if they did two simple things. The first is have your property properly surveyed so that you know where YOUR boundaries are. The second, and possibly the most important, is to be willing to POLITELY discuss land line/property matters with your neighbor.

Just yesterday I surveyed a house that is in a subdivision where the lots are priced somewhere between $160000 to $200000. The house was recently build. Almost half of it is on the wrong lot.

Your words should be engraved somewhere!  For some reason surveys are being skipped a lot in home purchases.  With our last two homes we had to mention a survey and both times our realtors looked at us like we had each grown two heads.  Both said that buyers hadn't been getting them.  Why would anyone buy property without a survey?  It isn't as if it's expensive.

I've done three surveys in the last three months that have had houses across the line. Two of them, like the house I mentioned in my previous post were new houses. The other was a house that had been foreclosed on. While I was doing my research before the survey I found that the mortgage had been transferred to about three different companies during the 15 year life of the home. None required a survey.

The most interesting case I've come across was a lady who had a 40' wide lot. Her house was 50' wide. When she received my plat showing the house across the line she hit the roof. She called and informed me in no uncertain terms that my survey and plat were wrong because her house wasn't across the line. I asked if she denied her lot only being 40' wide, and she said she didn't. I then asked if she denied her house being 50' wide, and she said she didn't. Then I asked if she agreed that 50 was larger than 40, and she said she did agree but that her house still wasn't across the line. I told her to contact another survey for a second opinion and if I was wrong I'd refund her payment. She's never called back.

So, what happens?  If the true lot owner doesn't discover it is it a prescriptive easement?  Do you have a duty to inform the adjacent lot owner of the intrusion?

[Zeus]

I'm a land surveyor so I get to see land feuds all the time. People don't realize how much money they would save in court costs and attorney fees if they did two simple things. The first is have your property properly surveyed so that you know where YOUR boundaries are. The second, and possibly the most important, is to be willing to POLITELY discuss land line/property matters with your neighbor.

Just yesterday I surveyed a house that is in a subdivision where the lots are priced somewhere between $160000 to $200000. The house was recently build. Almost half of it is on the wrong lot.

Your words should be engraved somewhere!  For some reason surveys are being skipped a lot in home purchases.  With our last two homes we had to mention a survey and both times our realtors looked at us like we had each grown two heads.  Both said that buyers hadn't been getting them.  Why would anyone buy property without a survey?  It isn't as if it's expensive.

I've done three surveys in the last three months that have had houses across the line. Two of them, like the house I mentioned in my previous post were new houses. The other was a house that had been foreclosed on. While I was doing my research before the survey I found that the mortgage had been transferred to about three different companies during the 15 year life of the home. None required a survey.

The most interesting case I've come across was a lady who had a 40' wide lot. Her house was 50' wide. When she received my plat showing the house across the line she hit the roof. She called and informed me in no uncertain terms that my survey and plat were wrong because her house wasn't across the line. I asked if she denied her lot only being 40' wide, and she said she didn't. I then asked if she denied her house being 50' wide, and she said she didn't. Then I asked if she agreed that 50 was larger than 40, and she said she did agree but that her house still wasn't across the line. I told her to contact another survey for a second opinion and if I was wrong I'd refund her payment. She's never called back.

So, what happens?  If the true lot owner doesn't discover it is it a prescriptive easement?  Do you have a duty to inform the adjacent lot owner of the intrusion?

I would think so except the for the encroached upon property owner having to have been aware of the encroachment.

[DumbAss Tanker]

What happens is kind of complex, it depends a lot on how much time has gone by before the error is detected and how taxes are assessed and paid in the location, as well as boundary clearance laws (in many locations you cannot build to the edge of the property line, in those locations there will be a minimum clearance of 5-15 feet or even more, also depending on whether it's a house or an outbuilding).  Consequences vary from the encroaching builder having to tear it down and get back across the line, to the encroache owner being dispossessed from the encroachment and title of the real estate being conformed via state "adverse possession" law to the de facto boundaries the neighbors and tax authorities have been observing...with many and varied shades of possibilities in between those two extremes.   

[Chris_]

What happens is kind of complex, it depends a lot on how much time has gone by before the error is detected and how taxes are assessed and paid in the location, as well as boundary clearance laws (in many locations you cannot build to the edge of the property line, in those locations there will be a minimum clearance of 5-15 feet or even more, also depending on whether it's a house or an outbuilding).  Consequences vary from the encroaching builder having to tear it down and get back across the line, to the encroache owner being dispossessed from the encroachment and title of the real estate being conformed via state "adverse possession" law to the de facto boundaries the neighbors and tax authorities have been observing...with many and varied shades of possibilities in between those two extremes.   

But do you have to file your findings?

[JohnnyReb]

My wife closes home loans. The place where she works doesn't close a loan until they get a fresh survey......and checked against building codes, setback requirements, balh-blah-blah. It's a hassel but they have no problems.

....and this is a typical DUmmie. They buy an acre and think that entitles them to rule the world.

Funny story. Back in mid-70's I mostly did clearing and grading for new homes. Started clearing a lot for a spec house. Woman came out and told me not to push over "That" tree or she'd sue me, it shaded her kitchen window. I asked the builder, easy going fellow about it, he just shrugged his shoulders and said leave it. He said that "IF" I could fit another house plan on the lot, fine and I could. Then she comes out and says, "Don't you so much as let a leaf fall in my yard or I'll sue". It was getting bad and I was getting mad. Then she comes out and says stop grading because she wasn't going to allow the house to be built that close to her driveway or she'd sue. It was then that I informed her that apparently her home didn't meat the setback requirements and that it appeared to me that her driveway was about 3' over the line. That set her off like a stick of dynamite. OH H. E. DOUBLE L NO! SHE KNEW WHERE HER PROPERTY LINES WERE and I was just a dumb bulldozer driver. I called the developer again and by this time he was getting a little tired of both me and her. He trusted my judgement enough to call her up and offer to sell her enough of the lot to put her in compliance at a reasonable price...and leave the damn tree...she goes off on him too.

About an hour after my last call to the developer he showed up with his lawyer and a surveyor. She came out and informed them that she had talked to her husband again. She tells them that he said not to allow them on their property and that he would be home soon. By the time the husband got their it was like a stirred up hornets nest. The surveyor had determined that in fact her garage and driveway was not only to close to the property line, it was 3 ' over the line just like I said. The developer told me to get the driveway and garage off "HIS" property anyway I saw fit and not to worry about how I did it. When he turned his back on the crazy man and woman, he winked at me so I left the driveway and garage alone for the rest of that day.

That night he called and said they were trying to borrow enough money to buy a little strip of land off the contested lot. He said to just grade the lot as if it were 15' smaller and get the heck away from there......BUT BE DAMN SURE TO TAKE DOWN "THE TREE". .....He said he'd would pay a slight bonus for that lot since things had held me up so much.  I informed him that he didn't have to do that and he laughed. He said he was more than willing to share the profits with me. He told me that they were now going to pay more for a mear 15' strip than he had been willing to take for the whole damn lot..... before they pitched their fit.

I hated working in developments where they built them one house/one lot at a time.

...and I believe I could write a book with similar stories.

[DumbAss Tanker]

What happens is kind of complex, it depends a lot on how much time has gone by before the error is detected and how taxes are assessed and paid in the location, as well as boundary clearance laws (in many locations you cannot build to the edge of the property line, in those locations there will be a minimum clearance of 5-15 feet or even more, also depending on whether it's a house or an outbuilding).  Consequences vary from the encroaching builder having to tear it down and get back across the line, to the encroache owner being dispossessed from the encroachment and title of the real estate being conformed via state "adverse possession" law to the de facto boundaries the neighbors and tax authorities have been observing...with many and varied shades of possibilities in between those two extremes.   

But do you have to file your findings?

A particular state's law might impose some kind of duty on surveyors or tax assessors to flop the whole thing on the County Clerk's or Recorder's desk, but in the absence of that, the surveyor works for whoever hired him and it's up to that guy to do or not do anything with the results.  The real legal burden to do anything about it is on the property owners themselves, unless and until one of them initiates action (usually for possession or a quiet-title action), of course there may be another party in interest like a title insurance company driving the train instead of just one of the two neighbors.  State laws on this stuff are VERY non-uniform, and anyone with a RW issue should talk to a pro qualified to work in their own locale.

[Chris_]

Dumbass Tanker is correct. In most cases though I'd say very complex instead of kind of complex. A lot of it depends on the two land owners. I've seen instances that I thought would be terrible turn out great. In those cases I've presented my plat to my client. He or she gets with the neighbor. They talk calmly and discuss the matter. Then they call me back out to survey a line that they've agreed to that will miss any structures. Sometimes money changes hands. Sometimes they have me adjust the line so that it will miss any encroachments while keeping each individual's acreage the same. In these cases the only lawyers involved are the ones preparing the deeds for any land being swapped or sold.

In the other cases you can have adverse claims to full blown court cases; however, chances are any adverse claim will eventually end up in court. In those cases the only ones coming out to the good are the attorneys.

In the case of the house to large for the lot the portion of the house that was across the line was actually encroaching onto an old lane that was no longer in use. The client's lawyer finally called me asking me to plat enough of that lane to take in the house. I agreed, but ONLY IF he'd let me do it like I wanted. When he agreed I revised the plat slightly. I had her actually property shown with heavy, solid lines with the acreage within those lines. Then with dashed lines I showed how much it would take to clear the house. I then added notes that I was only certifying her actual property and that the dashed lines were added at the request of her attorney. I also noted that I was not making any determination of the ownership of the lane. Then in the plat title block I listed it only as a survey of the tract she actually owned.

[Zeus]

What happens is kind of complex, it depends a lot on how much time has gone by before the error is detected and how taxes are assessed and paid in the location, as well as boundary clearance laws (in many locations you cannot build to the edge of the property line, in those locations there will be a minimum clearance of 5-15 feet or even more, also depending on whether it's a house or an outbuilding).  Consequences vary from the encroaching builder having to tear it down and get back across the line, to the encroache owner being dispossessed from the encroachment and title of the real estate being conformed via state "adverse possession" law to the de facto boundaries the neighbors and tax authorities have been observing...with many and varied shades of possibilities in between those two extremes.   

I'm Not a Real estate attorney but Doesn't  "adverse possession" deal with complete possesion not just part of. Such as in Prescriptive easement and the like.

[Chris_]

What happens is kind of complex, it depends a lot on how much time has gone by before the error is detected and how taxes are assessed and paid in the location, as well as boundary clearance laws (in many locations you cannot build to the edge of the property line, in those locations there will be a minimum clearance of 5-15 feet or even more, also depending on whether it's a house or an outbuilding).  Consequences vary from the encroaching builder having to tear it down and get back across the line, to the encroache owner being dispossessed from the encroachment and title of the real estate being conformed via state "adverse possession" law to the de facto boundaries the neighbors and tax authorities have been observing...with many and varied shades of possibilities in between those two extremes.   

But do you have to file your findings?

A particular state's law might impose some kind of duty on surveyors or tax assessors to flop the whole thing on the County Clerk's or Recorder's desk, but in the absence of that, the surveyor works for whoever hired him and it's up to that guy to do or not do anything with the results.  The real legal burden to do anything about it is on the property owners themselves, unless and until one of them initiates action (usually for possession or a quiet-title action), of course there may be another party in interest like a title insurance company driving the train instead of just one of the two neighbors.  State laws on this stuff are VERY non-uniform, and anyone with a RW issue should talk to a pro qualified to work in their own locale.

In my state there is no requirement to record survey plats. From what I've read in the trade mags and in my continuing ed some states do require any plat prepared to be recorded. But like you say, ultimately it is up to the land owner to take action if there is problem. All a surveyor can really do is present his finding via plat based on the evidence and his conclusions. He can offer suggestions, but until they are acted upon and agreed to by the landowners or ruled on by the courts they are only suggestions.

[Chris_]

What happens is kind of complex, it depends a lot on how much time has gone by before the error is detected and how taxes are assessed and paid in the location, as well as boundary clearance laws (in many locations you cannot build to the edge of the property line, in those locations there will be a minimum clearance of 5-15 feet or even more, also depending on whether it's a house or an outbuilding).  Consequences vary from the encroaching builder having to tear it down and get back across the line, to the encroache owner being dispossessed from the encroachment and title of the real estate being conformed via state "adverse possession" law to the de facto boundaries the neighbors and tax authorities have been observing...with many and varied shades of possibilities in between those two extremes.   

I'm Not a Real estate attorney but Doesn't  "adverse possession" deal with complete possesion not just part of. Such as in Prescriptive easement and the like.

A lot of it depends on who has the best attorney. Generally adverse possession has to be open and notorious with a certain period of time, but it doesn't have to complete possession as in possessing an entire tract of land. Say there's a 10 acre tract and Billy Bob runs a fence around the eastern five acres. He takes care of the land. He clears it. He builds on it. He lets everyone know that it's his. After a certain amount of time it could be argued that Billy Bob has an adverse claim to the land BUT only to the five acres that he's fenced and tended. Adverse possession claims are very complex and I wouldn't want to try to acquire a piece of land that way.

[DumbAss Tanker]

What happens is kind of complex, it depends a lot on how much time has gone by before the error is detected and how taxes are assessed and paid in the location, as well as boundary clearance laws (in many locations you cannot build to the edge of the property line, in those locations there will be a minimum clearance of 5-15 feet or even more, also depending on whether it's a house or an outbuilding).  Consequences vary from the encroaching builder having to tear it down and get back across the line, to the encroache owner being dispossessed from the encroachment and title of the real estate being conformed via state "adverse possession" law to the de facto boundaries the neighbors and tax authorities have been observing...with many and varied shades of possibilities in between those two extremes.   

I'm Not a Real estate attorney but Doesn't  "adverse possession" deal with complete possesion not just part of. Such as in Prescriptive easement and the like.

"It depends."  Classically an easement is a non-exclusive interest, but you can't get much more exclusive than parking your house of a piece of ground that isn't yours and definitely is someone else's.  The classic case for an easement by right is a totally landlocked piece of property for which you have to cross someone else's land to get access with absolutely no alternative, though it does not necessarily totally deprive the original owner of all right to use of the land needed for the access.  Whether that phrase or approach would be involved in the situation described here would depend entirely on code and decisional property law in the state involved.

I'm not kidding when I say the laws are "non-uniform."  Terms like "easement by right," "customary easement," "prescriptive easement," and "adverse possession" as actually interpreted and applied in state case law do not mean exactly the same thing or carry the same freight from one state to another.  They do all describe roughly the same big-picture concept from the old Common Law plus various state statutes as codified sometime between Statehood and last week, but the Devil is very much in the details.

[Zeus]

What happens is kind of complex, it depends a lot on how much time has gone by before the error is detected and how taxes are assessed and paid in the location, as well as boundary clearance laws (in many locations you cannot build to the edge of the property line, in those locations there will be a minimum clearance of 5-15 feet or even more, also depending on whether it's a house or an outbuilding).  Consequences vary from the encroaching builder having to tear it down and get back across the line, to the encroache owner being dispossessed from the encroachment and title of the real estate being conformed via state "adverse possession" law to the de facto boundaries the neighbors and tax authorities have been observing...with many and varied shades of possibilities in between those two extremes.   

I'm Not a Real estate attorney but Doesn't  "adverse possession" deal with complete possesion not just part of. Such as in Prescriptive easement and the like.

A lot of it depends on who has the best attorney. Generally adverse possession has to be open and notorious with a certain period of time, but it doesn't have to complete possession as in possessing an entire tract of land. Say there's a 10 acre tract and Billy Bob runs a fence around the eastern five acres. He takes care of the land. He clears it. He builds on it. He lets everyone know that it's his. After a certain amount of time it could be argued that Billy Bob has an adverse claim to the land BUT only to the five acres that he's fenced and tended. Adverse possession claims are very complex and I wouldn't want to try to acquire a piece of land that way.

Unless it's changed the time requirement for Adverse possessionin Texas is 30yrs.

[Chris_]

...and I believe I could write a book with similar stories.

Do so!!  Or start a thread or something.

That was a great story -- had me LOL.

[BlueStateSaint]

I'm a land surveyor so I get to see land feuds all the time. People don't realize how much money they would save in court costs and attorney fees if they did two simple things. The first is have your property properly surveyed so that you know where YOUR boundaries are. The second, and possibly the most important, is to be willing to POLITELY discuss land line/property matters with your neighbor.

Just yesterday I surveyed a house that is in a subdivision where the lots are priced somewhere between $160000 to $200000. The house was recently build. Almost half of it is on the wrong lot.

Your words should be engraved somewhere!  For some reason surveys are being skipped a lot in home purchases.  With our last two homes we had to mention a survey and both times our realtors looked at us like we had each grown two heads.  Both said that buyers hadn't been getting them.  Why would anyone buy property without a survey?  It isn't as if it's expensive.

I've done three surveys in the last three months that have had houses across the line. Two of them, like the house I mentioned in my previous post were new houses. The other was a house that had been foreclosed on. While I was doing my research before the survey I found that the mortgage had been transferred to about three different companies during the 15 year life of the home. None required a survey.

The most interesting case I've come across was a lady who had a 40' wide lot. Her house was 50' wide. When she received my plat showing the house across the line she hit the roof. She called and informed me in no uncertain terms that my survey and plat were wrong because her house wasn't across the line. I asked if she denied her lot only being 40' wide, and she said she didn't. I then asked if she denied her house being 50' wide, and she said she didn't. Then I asked if she agreed that 50 was larger than 40, and she said she did agree but that her house still wasn't across the line. I told her to contact another survey for a second opinion and if I was wrong I'd refund her payment. She's never called back.

Chuck, did you ask her her DU name?

[USA4ME]

I'm a land surveyor so I get to see land feuds all the time. People don't realize how much money they would save in court costs and attorney fees if they did two simple things. The first is have your property properly surveyed so that you know where YOUR boundaries are. The second, and possibly the most important, is to be willing to POLITELY discuss land line/property matters with your neighbor.

Just yesterday I surveyed a house that is in a subdivision where the lots are priced somewhere between $160000 to $200000. The house was recently build. Almost half of it is on the wrong lot.

Bingo!!

I've lost count of how many loan purchases I've originated where I've informed the people that they really should get their own survey done only to hear "I'm not worried, it's a recorded plat at the courthouse."  Granted, most of the time the recorded plat is correct, but why take the risk just to save $300?

.

[Chris_]

Chuck, did you ask her her DU name?

No, but I'll tell you one even more DUmmielike. There's a subdivision near the coast. It has about a 500' stretch of marsh between the land and the river. Naturally people want docks from their lots to the river. Around here the standard practice to do this is to simply project the property lines to the river. In this subdivision, due to the shape of the lots and bank this isn't possible. As a result the DNR established dock corridors for each lot. One landowner who I'll call Fred build a dock. Several months later a landowner who I'll call Bill decided he wanted to build a dock. His lots is TWO lots down from Fred. This is important. Bill hired a dock company who had a layout man. The layout man staked the direction that the dock needed to run to stay within the dock corridor. When they had made it almost to the river Fred, the first dock owner, began raising a fuss. He claimed the Bill's dock was much too close to his. He even went so far as turning Bill into the DNR. The DNR contacted Bill and the dock company. The dock company contacted me and had me survey the Bill's corridor lines through the marsh to the river. The dock company owner happened to be at the site the day I did this. He asked if I'd mind running FRED's corridor lines just to ease his mind. I did and found why Bill's dock was so close to Fred's. Fred had actually build over his corridor line and was almost across the next line.

I still don't know what ended up happening with that one.