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Star Member MineralMan (135,766 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214932026Some Seem Intent on Holding Joe Biden's Feet to the Fire,even before he has been inaugurated. Some are listening to his addresses prior to inauguration, and combing through them, looking for ways they can complain about what he is proposing.The man has not even been sworn in yet, and some are already dissatisfied with his Presidency. What is that about?Is he not progressive enough? Do people think he is a miracle worker? Do some reject him if he cannot implement their personal political objectives immediately? Are some people so clueless that cannot see the harm they are doing? What is it?I'm not sure. I do know this, however: Joe Biden is about to launch a new administration in a time of deep unrest and disasters caused by the tyrant he is replacing. He faces a Senate that will be equally divided between the two parties, a Senate that often needs 60 votes to accomplish anything. He comes to office in the midst of the worst pandemic this nation and the world have ever faced since the black plague in Europe hundreds of years ago. He must be inaugurated without an audience of ordinary citizens, because there are violent groups who want him dead, so he must surround himself with defensive troops.And even with all that, there are those who seek to find ways to criticize him before he has even begun his term in office.I am disgusted by this. I am alarmed by this. I am at my wits end about this. I can no longer remain silent in response to such counterproductive nonsense. What are such people thinking? Can they not hold off on their criticism and attacks at least until Joe Biden and Kamala Harris actually take office? Can they not join the rest of us in celebration of the end of Donald J. Trump's reign of tyranny?Those are the questions I ask. Here is a thread for people who would do such a thing to our new President to answer those questions.I await their explanations, but do not expect them:
Star Member Hugin (27,280 posts) 1. I'm gonna give President-elect Biden a wide pass.At least he's not actively trying to kill me. That alone deserves a break in my eyes.I suppose that puts me in the lenient crowd.
LiberalLovinLug (12,124 posts) 139. Its unclear whether you are scolding left of center DUers or left of center elected representatives1. If its other progressives on this board, then I'd ask why have a political discussion board if you can't question policies or direction, appointments etc.. Do you really think what we discuss here, has a big influence on what Biden will decide? I'll answer: Of course not. So what harm is there is debating even ......gulp...even if some here see it as "holding feet to the fire"? .2. If you mean Democratic representatives, then I'd ask when exactly is the right time? They represent a large and growing community withing the party. It seems to me, that just before a new administration is sworn in, while it is still being formed, before the President Elect has made his final choice, and when there is no danger of an immediate election to worry about is the PERFECT time to make your positions clear.
Star Member MineralMan (135,766 posts) 146. Elected representatives tend to sort themselves out witheach election. I leave that up to their constituencies. I communicate regularly and directly with legislators from my own state and districts. I have little interest in addressing other legislators, who would rightly ignore my communications.As for the rest, I am not scolding anyone. I'm addressing everyone who is looking for faults to find in the new administration, even before they take office. DUers, Twitter users, pundits, would-be pundits, and everyone else who doesn't ever run for office but feels that their opinions should be everyones' opinion. I'm an equal opportunity person. I'm sharing my opinion, which anyone can agree with or reject.It shouldn't be unclear. When I disagree with a DUer, I do so in threads where they post something. When I write an OP, I am addressing a much more general audience, one that includes people who read here but are not member or never post.That is what I have been doing here for some years, now.
LiberalLovinLug (12,124 posts) 151. Thanks for clearing it upSo its directed to DUers as well as any other lurkers.I'd just say that the many of the folks on DU that are calling for and pushing for a more progressive policy platform going forward get their energy and hope from the outspoken progressive reps. So in effect, you are also including them, indirectly, in your admonishments. They give inspiration to many of us that it is possible to seriously now look at progressive ideas and policy, especially now with the majority. If a Manchin, or even a Schumer or Pelosi doesn't like it, sorry. Its a free country. And I thought, a free party to lobby within for influence. ESPECIALLY if you are an elected rep.And those here that vocally support those reps like the Squad are not "attacking" the establishment of the party for fun, or to inflict damage, they are using the time before the cabinet is fully filled, towards pushing the party, ......even thought Democrats have done much good already.....towards even more inclusive, more egalitarian policy. Even if they and we, move the needle a wee bit forward. Maybe its time the more conservative wing of the party come down and extend a hand. Why can't the onus be also on them to come together and unify? Why is it always the progressive wing that has to shut up? There has never been a better time now when the Republicans are in disarray.
Star Member Thekaspervote (16,882 posts) 2. Maybe they need their feet held to the fire!! It's utter nonsense
Star Member MineralMan (135,766 posts) 4. "Feet Held to the Fire" is a torture technique that datesback to the Inquisition, where people were forced to confess while being tortured. It is not a good thing to use as a metaphor when talking about the President-Elect of the United States.It is simply offensive on a level that can only be understood by those who understand medieval torture.
Star Member Butterflylady (2,023 posts) 115. Thank you for giving me a much needed history lesson.Always wondered where the saying comes from. Again, one is never to old to learn something new.
Star Member Laelth (30,804 posts) 7. Biden needs heat from his left. It's useful.It allows him to look calm, balanced, moderate, and Presidential.If the left screams for $2,000 in extra stimulus, Joe can “compromise” and get us a bonus $1,400 while looking like he came down “in the middle” in this debate.If AOC, for example, screams, “You can’t live on $15/hr. in New York! The minimum wage should be $18/hr.,” then Biden is better armed to get us the $15/hr. he actually wants, and he can look like a moderate when he does it.This is basic stuff. Heat from the more extreme end of the Party gives cover for the leader of the party to make necessary reforms. AOC makes Biden look moderate, and that’s a GOOD thing.-Laelth
Star Member MineralMan (135,766 posts) 11. Nonsense!
PurgedVoter (1,056 posts) 128. I love you MineralMan but Nonsense! right back at you.Seriously, while I respect your thought and care. There are times when your attempts to undercut the left wing of the party makes me shake my head. You do great work, your voice is one we need, but you know sometimes when someone screams "Divisive," they need to examine what they are doing and stop encouraging division. I get it, you hate AOC with a blazing white fervor. We all get it. Really a lot of us do. Whenever anyone brings up AOC, you turn rather harsh and divisive.Some of us remember the DLC and some of us want voices that will speak out against the DLC happening again. Some of us fear that money could creep in and transform the Democratic party into something we would no longer love. A lot of us, as a result want the voices of people like AOC ready and loud, fighting against complacency and the voices of big money.While I respect your work and wisdom in many areas, I think, and I do not exclude myself, we all need feed back and we all need to grow. In this area, MineralMan, I have to return your words to you. Nonsense!
Star Member Dyedinthewoolliberal (12,528 posts) 37. I sense you don't care for AOC?She represents her district and they like what she's done so far. I wish I could vote for her. I won't live long enough but I'd like to see her move all the way up the line to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Star Member SWBTATTReg (14,335 posts) 8. I agree w/ you. And these same people see what trump did in encouraging the mob to lashout, yet still, like you said, find something to complain about, even thought Mr. Biden's admin. is not even 1 day old yet.He's deserves a grace period. Even trump got a grace period when swore in.Mr. Biden deserves our support. He's got it from me.
Star Member PatrickforO (11,999 posts) 12. Well, I'm not one of those who will be critical of Biden. Sure, as time goes on andthings normalize, then he will once again be subject to reasonable criticism, as are all presidents.However, we are presently in an urgent situation with three crises going at once. We have an out of control pandemic, an economy in crisis, and the threat of massive insurrection by domestic terrorists.At this point the best thing we can possibly do is stand with Biden, Harris, his administration, and Democrats in Congress. We have to get these major crises under control before anything else.Not only that, Mineral, but did you see Biden speak last night? He was great. He has plans he is putting forward that make sense and will help a) get the vaccine out more effectively, b) work with Congress and Governors to increase testing, the use of masks and social distancing, c) provided additional relief for Americans, as well as state and local governments, and d) start putting initiatives in place that will rebuild our infrastructure.Then, this morning Pelosi gave a presser and she talked about the accountability for Trump's treasonous insurrection, and also how she looks forward to working with the Biden administration to accomplish its goals on our behalf.Honestly, I don't see how anyone on here (or Main Street in general) could be critical of that. Our Democratic leaders, and rank and file in Congress, are stepping up in a big way.
Star Member PatrickforO (11,999 posts) 90. Well, not to split hairs, but Obama was an excellent president who had the temerity to be an excellent president while at the same time being black.The criticism the racists levied at him was as far from 'reasonable' as you can get.However, Obama was at the same time human, and one reasonable criticism to his policies might be the ISDS provisions in the TPP, which were, of course, criticized by some in our own party.Speaking, in fact, of reasonable criticism, we would be very well served by enacting a new Fairness Doctrine to replace the one Reagan killed in 1987. The original was enacted in 1948 to prevent Americans from ever falling prey to Goebbels style big-lie propaganda. We need a new one that essentially requires anything on any platform calling itself news to confine itself to facts, and anything on any platform expressing opinions to be labeled as such. That would help.Because I do hear what you are saying - the public 'criticism' levied against Obama by the right, and duly parroted by the media, was not reasonable. It was racist.Reasonable criticism is about differences in policy, and if we get rid of that, we essentially kill the debate and compromise our founders intended to move us forward.Unreasonable criticism is what Fox, OANN, AM hate-talk radio, Newsmax, Breitbart and others spew out.Reasonable criticism is debate on the issues between knowledgeable parties, and if your or I disagree with a policy position, we should express that along with a cogent argument as to why, AND we should be willing to be big enough to change our minds if we are wrong. Last night, Biden himself said that we are going to move forward, and that sometimes he may make mistakes, but his promise is to do his best. Biden, I think, also knows the difference between reasonable and unreasonable criticism.
Star Member MineralMan (135,766 posts) 84. The thread that prompted this post is no longer visible in the GD thread list. The author of the OP of that thread can no longer post here. I participated in that thread, but cannot any longer, so I used it as a jumping-off point for this thread.President-Elect Biden has made a proposal. Presidential proposals either become law or they do not. Presidents propose; Congress disposes.The latest proposal made by the man who will be President on January 20, will face a tough fight by the Republican in the Senate. It may even not succeed in being passed. It is, as are all Pre sidential proposals for legislation, a carefully-planned proposal that a President believes can become law. I think, in the end, his proposal, or something close to it will quickly become law and benefit the citizenry. Something that does not pass benefits nobody.Proposing things that have zero chance of becoming law helps nobody. Such proposals are useless from the start. Without the support of Congress, Presidents can do very little to create progress.I'm pretty sure you have no idea what my ideal solutions are. If you did, you'd realize that we have the same goals. We differ only on how those goals are reached. I understand that without legislation that passes in Congress, nothing happens. I want things to happen. I do not insist that my ideals be reached in a single pass. That does not change what I want in the end. I am for progress, whether it is happens in a single day or takes years. I want movement toward my goals, which are actually very close to your own.We differ only on how to reach those goals.
The man has not even been sworn in yet, and some are already dissatisfied with his Presidency. What is that about?
Can they not join the rest of us in celebration of the end of Donald J. Trump's reign of tyranny?
Star Member SWBTATTReg (14,335 posts)8. I agree w/ you. And these same people see what trump did in encouraging the mob to lashout, yet still, like you said, find something to complain about, even thought Mr. Biden's admin. is not even 1 day old yet.He's deserves a grace period. Even trump got a grace period when swore in.Mr. Biden deserves our support. He's got it from me.
Yep a whole 17hrs before the calls to impeach were made.
I remember DU not being too fond of Joe Biden.I remember they had a lovefest for Dennis Kucinich.
Stick around.You're likely to see a whole lot more about-faces.
