Author Topic: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign  (Read 3849 times)

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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2010, 05:41:10 AM »
Not even close.

Okay, assuming you have anything to say in the matter, that might be true.  But what if Obumbler DOES pull out all but a very small token force next year?

What then?
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Offline TheSarge

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2010, 06:58:23 AM »
Okay, assuming you have anything to say in the matter, that might be true.  But what if Obumbler DOES pull out all but a very small token force next year?

What then?

Then he'll be making the biggest mistake of his life.  He'll be this generations LBJ. But he's already backing off of the timeline...Petreaus is against it and Libtards like Boxer have already said publicly that if General P wants more time beyond the July 2011 deadline he should have it.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2010, 07:05:45 AM »
Then he'll be making the biggest mistake of his life.  He'll be this generations LBJ. But he's already backing off of the timeline...Petreaus is against it and Libtards like Boxer have already said publicly that if General P wants more time beyond the July 2011 deadline he should have it.

I knew General Petraeus (and frankly, was that not a demotion, or is the administration trying to play politics with putting him in charge there?) was against the timeline--as is virtually anyone above the rank of PFC, but BOXHEAD?

Babs?  If even SHE can see it, whoa...
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2010, 07:26:13 AM »
I'd say GEN Petraeus is filling in while another commander is being sought/groomed for the gig. That commander will be named in due course and GEN P will go back to his gig as CENTCOM commander.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2010, 08:19:02 AM »
Sorry, the Zero administration might be a bunch of malignant narcissists, but they're not COMPLETELY stupid.  I see putting Gen. Petraeus in there as a purely political move for them, which if they spin it right, can be a win-win for Zerobama.  If Gen. Petraeus can turn it around (so to speak), they'll take the credit for putting him in there, and if they fail, they'll come up with the, "Well, we put the best person in there, and he couldn't do it, so must be nobody can!" excuse.  Either way, the shitstorm gets deflected away from them.
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Offline TheSarge

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2010, 08:24:21 AM »
I knew General Petraeus (and frankly, was that not a demotion, or is the administration trying to play politics with putting him in charge there?) was against the timeline--as is virtually anyone above the rank of PFC, but BOXHEAD?

Babs?  If even SHE can see it, whoa...

It was a demotion of sorts...but IMHO theres a quid pro quo somewhere in there.  He steps down from CENTCOM...cleans up the mess here and he's nominated for CSA or CJCS aftrewards.

Yeah that's what I thought when I read that Boxer supported giving more time.  And the last quote I saw from POTUS last week weas him saying that there "too much focus" on the deadline" or something to that effect.
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2010, 10:40:18 AM »
The strategy of Petraeus, implemented originally by McChrystal, is a perfectly valid approach, probably the only real workable COIN strategy since in modern times it is unacceptable to just depopulate and lay waste to a rebellious countryside (Also a proven successful COIN strategy, historically).
 
What he's doing has been proven by other players than us in the past, it is not some untested flash in the pan.  That said, it DOES take many years of enforced stability for it to take root, what's called in military jargon 'The Long War' vs. the kind of war Gulf I or Kosovo was.  Thing is, it works much faster in countries that have more developed economies and more visible-to-the-people economic benefit from a stable central government.

Afghanistan is more or less a 'Worst case' COIN war, well except for lacking jungles, that's about all that would make it worse yet.  The enemy has all the classic preconditions for successful guerrilla war set up in his favor, to include a willingness to take extremely unfavorable loss ratio ass-beatings until we get tired of losing even the small end of those numbers and sanctuary across the border.

In other words our COIN strategy bears fruit a whole lot quicker in a place like Iraq than in a place like Afghanistan.  Iraq is a place where the vast majority of the population sees a better life in peace than in continued warfare, there's a tangible difference between the two conditions to them.  In comparative terms, let's say it's like Yugoslavia was - civilized, even mildly industrialized, literate and aware of the wider world and wanting to be involved in it, but riven by factional fighting.  Afghanistan is more like the kind of African colonial state as depicted in 'Heart of Darkness' - a thin veneer of civilization, mostly imported and misspent, but with a backward population ruled by warlords who regard conflict as actually providing more opportunities for themselves than peace (Peace after all means not being able to hijack convoys, or raid your competition's villages), where loyalty is strictly local and the central government is generally regarded as an unnecessary annoyance and an irritating hindrance to your life goals of increased power and personal enrichment. 

The strategy will work in Afghanistan only if we have the political will to pursue it to its logical consequences, which I frankly doubt, since it will mean maintaining serious credible forces to backstop the central government for at least two decades, and a substantial reaction and training force well beyond that.  In other words we would have to stay there in force until Western expectations fo fair government and straight dealing are enforced long enough for a couple of generations to grow up under them and think of them as the norm.

If we actually follow Obama's timetable, or even a stretch version of it, our departure will signal a replay of the Soviet pullout, with the central government eventually going Tango Uniform.  That timetable is entirely in the hands of the aAdministration, not the generals, of course.  People forget that the Soviets too had mcuh more than a military presence, but did their best to bring the Afghans up to the Soviet version of a modern outlook and values.  From the overthrow of the king, in which they were heavily involved, they had over ten years at it, and they did indeed convince a lot of the same sub-populations with whom we have made some headway.  It wasn't enough to survive their departure, when they pulled out it was like clock was suddenly dialed back a hundred or two years.

Oh, and yes, Steele's an idiot, he needs to go.   
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2010, 12:09:17 PM »
Just to cut Steele a little slack. Is there anyone here that honestly believes that if the situation were reversed reversed, that the media would be supporting him?  I mean, if this same thing were said by the DNC chairman about a Republican president following a Dem that had gotten us into a war.

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2010, 12:25:12 PM »
Well, if history is any indicator, Vietnam is more a Nixon issue than an LBJ one, if that give ya any idea.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2010, 04:56:50 PM »
Well, if history is any indicator, Vietnam is more a Nixon issue than an LBJ one, if that give ya any idea.

Dunno about that, Sparky. Nixon didn't not run for office because of Vietnam, even after his "secret plan" to end the war was found to be campaign rhetoric.

LBJ, of course, opted not to run in 1968 principally because of Vietnam and how it was perceived to be "his war", not to mention the growing disaffection with it.

Even after Nixon's prosecuting the war with the two Linebacker campaigns and the invasion into Cambodia, Vietnam is still very much LBJ's war imho.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2010, 06:09:23 PM »
But if you ask a kid today who was more responsible for prolonging it, guess who they'd say?  The media and the history books have given LBJ (and JFK) a pass regarding Vietnam.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.”  -Henry Ford

Offline Eupher

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2010, 06:30:08 PM »
Your point is well taken, but I'd submit that most kids today don't have a damned clue about Vietnam one way or the other. The amount of historical ignorance in our youth today is staggering.

Straw man aside, I haven't seen a kid's history book in some years so I dunno what kind of slant the authors are taking these days except that liberal policy is the best policy.  :whatever:
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Offline ConservativeJoeG

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Re: Steele Blames Afghan War on Obama, Drawing Calls to Resign
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2010, 03:48:47 PM »
Obama?  Really?  We've been over there long before he took office.