Author Topic: Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated  (Read 660 times)

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Offline dutch508

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Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated
« on: August 31, 2020, 05:52:12 PM »
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Tom Rinaldo (21,109 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214001216

Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated

There are many, including:

Four more years of demographic changes. America has literally become less white since 2016. And, as is naturally the case, more of Trump's older voters have died in the last four years than have Clinton's 2016 voters. Voters who are eligible to participate in their first presidential election in 2020 strongly favor Biden.

Trump is not running against a candidate who the Republican Party has spent 28 years demonizing. Joe Biden is not Hillary Clinton, and a relatively ineffective six month campaign to sour Americans on him is trivial compared to what Hillary Clinton had been subjected to for decades.

The Democratic Party is more unified, and has been so for many months, heading into the 2020 election than it was when heading into the 2016 election.

Democrats control the House of Representatives. That means that adverse news about the Trump Administration receives national attention. Recent case in point, public scrutiny of sabotage of the U.S. Post Office.

U.S. media (with the exception of FOX which remains a constant) long ago stopped falling all over themselves to give wall to wall coverage stressing Trump's "unique maverick appeal" to voters, including hundreds of millions of dollars devoted to free, non fact checked coverage of virtually all of his campaign rallies

Trump now has an actual track record in office. He no longer gets to be all things to all people dissatisfied with the status quo in America. People can no longer simply project their hopes for how Trump will perform in office onto him, now America has seen what a Trump presidency actually looks like.

Trump faces organized significant opposition to his run for reelection from many figures who were previously well established in Republican and/or Conservative circles; various Never Trumpers, the Lincoln Project: Republican Voters for Trump, previous members of other Republican Administrations etc. "Establishment" Republicans mostly muted their criticism of Trump once he secured the 2016 nomination. Now a significant number are openly attacking him and promoting Biden to restore sanity to Government. They hold little to no sway over Trump's base, but they can effect the election at the margins, among some Independents, moderate Republicans etc.

Third Party candidates are in eclipse. We acknowledge to role the Green Party played in Trump's narrow victory in 2016. The Green Party has a significantly reduced profile heading into November. But it is the loss in stature of the Libertarian Party that is more note worthy. Libertarians far out polled the Greens in 2016. Libertarians appealed to significant numbers of younger voters in 2016 with their "pro-pot" position and anti-establishment branding etc.

There is an African American candidate on the Democratic ticket this year. There wasn't in 2016 when we lost, there was in 2008 and 2012 when we won. African American voter turn out dropped in 2016 from the prior two elections. That hurt Democrats.

The pandemic will have killed a quarter of a million Americans by the time election day arrives. This is on Trump's watch, and all of his pronouncements about how perfectly his administration has handled this catastrophe are only playing to his hard core base, his approval ratings on this front are damning.

The public is unhappy to a record degree over the course our nation is on. That is almost universally a referendum on the incumbent Administration. Trump can spin all he wants but everyone knows that the economy remains in terrible shape, largely due to how poorly the pandemic has been handled.

How horrific a human being Donald Trump is has been well litigated and firmly established a thousand times over with floods of new information now available about how utterly loathsome a human being he actually is. No, this does not negatively impact on his floor of support. What it does is lower the ceiling of support beyond his base that Trump can still aspire to, and his base alone doesn't cut it.

Of course there are things that Trump can and will play up to make sure that voters who are naturally inclined to support someone with his professed world view show up at the polls for him. Even Barry Goldwater got almost 39% of the vote in 1964. Any major party candidate in America starts out with over a third of the vote locked in solidly. And those voters tend to be fervent and vocal. I had a friend (of above average intellect, honest) who was convinced George McGovern was going to win in 1972 because where he lived in Oregon at the time McGovern was wildly popular.

Trump can and will rally his base. He will win back almost all of those who might have started wavering in their support of him. But his base is not enough. Trump has racism and the specter of "Anarchists" rioting in our cities going for him in 2020. He had racism and the specter of the M13 gang infiltrating suburbia in 2016. And Mexico DID NOT "pay for the wall". Trump has Russia "meddling in our elections" this year and that was true in 2016 also. But now it is out in the open, and some social media platforms have actually become at least somewhat more active in combating Russian efforts.

Election fundamentals have shifted AWAY from Trump since 2016. Grassroots Democrats are far more organized now than we had been prior to the 2016 election. His election was an eye opener and the immediate response to that came the day after his election with a nation wide (and beyond) mobilization of women against him. Republicans have lost ground nationally in every election year since 2016, and Democrats historically turn out the most in presidential election years.

In my opinion constantly repeating the refrain that this will be a very close election only helps give Trump the cover he needs to more blatantly attempt to steal it. If conventional wisdom hardens on a prediction that this can go either way, then it becomes easier for Trump to after the fact claim that he was the legitimate winner, but for rigging, once he is defeated.

 :whatever:

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Star Member tinrobot (8,097 posts)

1. This is a great list. It gives me hope.

I also don't think it will be close.

But we need to make it a complete blowout. It's the only way the message gets sent.

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Star Member uponit7771 (70,201 posts)

2. K&R, meaning only way for Trump to win is for him to cheat

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Star Member Laelth (27,191 posts)

3. I agree.

In any fair election this year, Biden will “beat Trump like a drum,” just as he promised us he would. It shouldn’t be close.

-Laelth

I kinda wish I could go into a coma and wake up just in time to vote.

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Star Member lastlib (15,659 posts)

6. And the one reason it COULD be repeated:

He CHEATS.

he STEALS, he LIES. He BULLIES.

If we don't vote MASSIVELY, he will fight, tooth and claw and horns and cloven hooves, to hold on to power. And if we don't beat him into humiliated pulp on Election Day, prosecute him, and hang his carcass from a lamp-post, with a wooden stake through his miniscule heart, he or his Satanic spawn could come back in years to come.

 :censored:  :bird:

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Johnny2X2X (7,727 posts)

9. Gary Johnson and Jill Stein

So Johnson had a big effect on polling, at this time in 2016 he was polling at 8%, this had the effect of muting Trump's support, the Hillary lead was not all real in 2016. Hillary was up 5.5 points at this point in 2016, but Gary Johnson's polling support would go to 4% on election day, that 4% went to Trump. Furthermore, on election day, Johnson got 3% of the vote, so there's another point to Trump. Gary Johnson explains why Hillary's lead was not real.

Jill Stein, she got 1% of the vote overall, but got 2-3% in some of the swing states, this was greater than the margin Hillary lost in states like MI and WI.

The Libertarian and Green candidates are totally marginalized this time around, they aren't skewing polls, and they won't decide some states like last time unless it's the Libertarian stealing some unexpected votes from Trump.

Undecideds is also a factor, there were about 10% of the voters undecided at this point in 2016, this time around it's more like 7-8%. So Hillary never polled over 46%, She had to get a lot of the undecideds to have a big victory. Biden is already at over 50%, he doesn't need any extra votes between now and then to win decisively.

It's a totally different animal. Trump knows it too though, that's why he's going to try to steal it outright.

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LaMouffette (185 posts)

11. Thank you!

Been feeling a bit terrified as more TRUMP 2020 signs have been popping up in our area. This is to be expected in the red area in which we live, but lately these signs fill me with an enormous sense of dread that Trump will manage to steal this election, too.

I've been seeing more pickup trucks driving around with the American flag flying from them. And I am thinking that this must be some kind of covert Trump supporter thing, which pisses me off. That's my flag, too! How dare they try to claim it as another one of their dog whistles!

But anyway, your post gives me hope!

 :thatsright:

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llmart (10,339 posts)

47. I hate that the redneck guys in pickup trucks think the flag is only theirs.

I will NOT let them co-opt our flag! I intend to fly my flag for the first time in four years on the day Biden wins! We need to take that symbol back from the trump humpers.

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Calista241 (4,004 posts)

12. I'm not really sure. I know 'we' really hate Trump.

But what does rando not ultra political but regular presidential election voter in Florida, Ohio, and Wisconsin feel like? My impression is that many on the right are every bit as highly motivated to vote as we are.

I live in the suburbs of Atlanta, and there is Trump support everywhere. A month ago, i was enthusiastic, as there were even little Black Lives Matter protests in my city (which has never, ever happened). But I know one of the people at those protests, and they have a Trump / Pence sign in their yard.

I've mentioned this here before, but my fiance's Mom is a die hard Trumper, and I know for a fact that she wouldn't tell a soul outside her family and circle of friends that she's going to vote for Trump. I even heard her say to people that she voted for Clinton, when I know who she really voted for. How many people like that are out there? I think it's a lot more than we suspect.

 :loser:

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Star Member Pacifist Patriot (23,337 posts)

15. Excellent. I have but one quibble.

"Trump can and will rally his base. He will win back almost all of those who might have started wavering in their support of him."

I am not convinced he has the ability to win back support once it is lost. His strong base will stay his strong base. But once someone held in thrall to a malignant narcissist has their eyes opened, there is no going back. When Trump loses a supporter, it is not quite the same thing as a typical politician souring a voter who might be able to mollify that voter by Election Day.

His cult of personality may solidify a base that you quite rightly point out is not enough to win an election. But it is also that personality that makes it virtually impossible to support him again once the voter has experienced That One Thing.

The maddening part for the rest of us is that there is no way of knowing what That One Thing will be for any particular person. We're gobsmacked people didn't see it when he demonstrated who he was many times over in his first campaign for president. A racist, misogynist, grifter who makes fun of the disabled, spars with Gold Star families, etc. We thought, Damn! If kids in cages doesn't do it, what the hell will?

Unpredictable and nonsensical, but when anyone has That One Thing moment, there is no going back. The scales have fallen from their eyes and they won't follow him ever again.

That's excellent news for us because he's going to keep delivering That One Thing every damn day until November.

Great post, thanks!

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Star Member IronLionZion (30,975 posts)

23. I'm hoping turnout is high enough to completely thrash their voter suppression tactics

It's time for a big blue wave to wash off the stench of the GOP

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Sophiedillo (25 posts)

28. He won last time by way of the electoral college.

This could indeed happen again.

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Star Member Larissa (111 posts)

32. Some things cannot be glazed over or lied about

Per the BBC, the United States' six million cases of coronavirus represents nearly a quarter of the world's total. What I find extremely horrifying is the untold numbers of those not officially included in the six million, who are likely infecting others -- and so on and so forth. I have wondered what the saturation point is when things, like contact tracing, become useless. We've got no brakes on this car and a loon behind the wheel. Every day we're braced for impact.


NYT: The True Coronavirus (Death) Toll in the U.S. has Already Surpassed 200,000
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/08/12/us/covid-deaths-us.html

Confirmed virus cases in the U.S. surpass 6 million.

Twenty-two days.

It took more than three months for the United States to reach one million coronavirus cases after reporting its first confirmed infection, but less than a third of that time to notch the latest million-case leap.

On Sunday, the United States hit yet another milestone, with six million reported cases.

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Star Member RhodeIslandOne (4,723 posts)

33. Only the cheating is what I worry about

This race will not be close if all the votes are counted fair and square. Whether by mail or in person, Biden should win both the PV and EC in a landslide. He will win states like Ohio and Arizona that would be pipe dreams only recently.

But now Donald Trump has shown he will do literally anything to save himself. He knows if he loses, he will certainly be going to jail. Why wouldn't he cheat? There's nothing left for him to pillage or desecrate as far as government goes.

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Star Member ooky (4,898 posts)

36. There are a lot of Trump supporters on slow bleed right now.

If I was a Trump supporter waiting in a food bank line or sweating being evicted right now, I don't think that would enhance my enthusiasm about voting for him, or voting at all. His "law and order" shit isn't going to appeal to people in that situation either. They need money, and he isn't helping them get any. So if anything, I expect his base to keep shrinking.

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Star Member LiberalFighter (40,329 posts)

37. I've been saying the part of more of Trump's voters have died then Clintons for several months.

About 8 million will have died from the 2016 election until November 2020. Those 65 and older tend to be more conservative and likely to vote Republican. That group would consist of about 60%.

The margins are also critical with those that don't vote by party. This year there are what would normally be hard Republicans that can't hold their nose with the stench coming from Trump.

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apnu (7,598 posts)

39. The Green and Libertarian thoughts are interesting.

It is noticeable they are so quiet this election cycle. Almost as if they exist solely to be some kind of spoiler in non-incumbent election cycles. That certainly was true of the Greens in 2016. Jill Stein was there only to siphon off some votes for Hillary. The Russians knew it, and they tried to exploit that with some success.

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apnu (7,598 posts)

42. This election is going to be about "owning the libs"

Trump's base acknowledges that America is a shit-hole. Naturally they ignore their own contributions to that, but they at least acknowledge it. Their motivation isn't that Trump is bad has his job, or that he hasn't provided one iota of what he promised. They don't care about that any more than Trump cares about them. The Trumpers just want to see Liberals "owned" and so long as they thing Trump is doing that, he will have their enthusiastic support.

Trump has the same floor that W had at his lowest moments after Hurricane Katrina, that is something like 30% of the electorate stuck with him no matter what.

The question will be, will that 30% with a few other weirdos, be enough to get Trump to 270 Electoral Votes?

Trump lost 2016 by almost 3 million votes in the popular tally. Add on the fact that 40% of the electorate stayed home in 2016, its easy to see that most of America doesn't want Trump.

He is not popular, he has never been popular, the approval ratings are always bunk, doesn't matter who the POTUS is. But even by that metric he's unpopular.

None of that matters, the only thing that does is the 270 EVs. Can Trump string some path to 270, no matter how narrow? Maybe.

We need to watch all the states that were narrow victories for Trump in 2016 (WI, MI, OH, PA, FL), but also see if there are any upsets coming our way, for example TX appears to be in play. Things like that could be indicators of how Trump is doing in conservative America and show how narrow of a path to 270 he has.

Because if Texas is close, what does that say of MI, WI, PA, and FL? Trump won all 4 by less than 2% of the popular vote in those states. Clinton won MN and NH by less than 2% of the popular vote.

It seems to me that the road to 270 goes through the Rust Belt and FL?

So it all comes down to how much of a motivator "owning the Libs" is for those states.

I think this is why Biden is going after working class voters and surrounding himself with moderate Democrats and Republicans, from a tactical perspective.

Joe is pretty moderate himself, in so far as Democrats go, so I don't expect him to be full throat-ed progressive now or any time in the future. But the tactics of appealing to disaffected moderates is a sound one, given the last election cycle.

 :thatsright:

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Act_of_Reparation (7,765 posts)

43. Try not to get hit in the face when Donnie throws in the sponge.

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Awsi Dooger (13,910 posts)

45. Single most important variable is independents who shifted away from Trump in early 2017

And have never returned. That category dictated the 2018 midterm. That category decides this election because massive numbers are involved, and it is preference, not turnout.

Preference is exponentially more significant than turnout because it is shuffling numbers from one side to the other. Three independents per 100 who voted Trump in 2016 and now have moved to Biden in 2020 cannot be made up anywhere else.

We are not going to swamp Donald Trump based on turnout. Both sides feel the urgency and will show up. The GOP was surprised by Trump's pull among lower educated previous non-voters, so they have made a huge push to find more in that category. No doubt it will be successful. The greatest challenge pollsters face in this cycle is weighing the electorate by education. Nearly 50% of respondents lie in that category. It was the problem with polling in the midwestern states in 2016. The major polls underestimated the number of high school and lower who would be in the electorate. I believe it will happen again, to lesser extent.

Trump also can make up ground with partisans. I am not a believer in the crossover anecdotes. That is over hyped every cycle. Bottom line Trump only received 81% of conservatives in 2016. That number figures to go up, not down. He won Wisconsin 2016 largely because Republicans and conservatives were more loyal to him there than in other swing states, or the nation itself.

The only other major category Trump figures to improve from 2016 is with Hispanics. Hispanics are more loyal to presidential incumbents than any issue evaluation would suggest. There is no need trying to figure it out, or deny it. It was glaring as soon as I began studying political math decades ago.

The first point from the OP is excellent, and one I have emphasized for years. Silent Generation shoved Trump over the top in 2016. He has lost his winning margin due to death rate among that group, which was always the most right leaning generation. By my calculations, Silent Generation mortality from 2016 to 2020 alone is worth 1.5% net toward Biden in Florida and Arizona, and roughly 1% net in other swing states.

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bucolic_frolic (19,365 posts)

46. We were paralyzed in 2016 by ignorance and message

We were gaslit. We didn't understand why the polls always stalled. Only those of us aware of Trump's Russia obsession had any idea of what was going down. Why wasn't "Russia, if you're listening ...." a ten alarm fire for our intel community? If any other President in the last 100 years had gone there, he would not have been elected.

The Biden campaign is ready for battle. As inspiring a candidate as HRC was, her message was muzzled by the media. They didn't follow her policy outlines, they reported her father had manufactured curtains.

Biden understands this race deeply. He is operating in Trump's head. We have the American people engaged this time, in fact outraged. Anger drives watershed, change elections. Trump's reservoir is emptying out as the weeks roll by.

 :thatsright:
The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

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Offline Delmar

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Re: Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2020, 07:05:09 PM »
Well I guess that they've got nothing to worry about then, do they?
"I sat down, and I said, 'America's back' and Mitterrand from Germany — I mean from France — looked at me and said … "Well, how long are you back for?"
Crooked Joe Biden

Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2020, 07:09:29 PM »
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Tom Rinaldo (21,109 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214001216

Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated

There are many, including:

Four more years of demographic changes. America has literally become less white since 2016. And, as is naturally the case, more of Trump's older voters have died in the last four years than have Clinton's 2016 voters. Voters who are eligible to participate in their first presidential election in 2020 strongly favor Biden.

Trump is not running against a candidate who the Republican Party has spent 28 years demonizing. Joe Biden is not Hillary Clinton, and a relatively ineffective six month campaign to sour Americans on him is trivial compared to what Hillary Clinton had been subjected to for decades.

The Democratic Party is more unified, and has been so for many months, heading into the 2020 election than it was when heading into the 2016 election.

Democrats control the House of Representatives. That means that adverse news about the Trump Administration receives national attention. Recent case in point, public scrutiny of sabotage of the U.S. Post Office.

U.S. media (with the exception of FOX which remains a constant) long ago stopped falling all over themselves to give wall to wall coverage stressing Trump's "unique maverick appeal" to voters, including hundreds of millions of dollars devoted to free, non fact checked coverage of virtually all of his campaign rallies

Trump now has an actual track record in office. He no longer gets to be all things to all people dissatisfied with the status quo in America. People can no longer simply project their hopes for how Trump will perform in office onto him, now America has seen what a Trump presidency actually looks like.

Trump faces organized significant opposition to his run for reelection from many figures who were previously well established in Republican and/or Conservative circles; various Never Trumpers, the Lincoln Project: Republican Voters for Trump, previous members of other Republican Administrations etc. "Establishment" Republicans mostly muted their criticism of Trump once he secured the 2016 nomination. Now a significant number are openly attacking him and promoting Biden to restore sanity to Government. They hold little to no sway over Trump's base, but they can effect the election at the margins, among some Independents, moderate Republicans etc.

Third Party candidates are in eclipse. We acknowledge to role the Green Party played in Trump's narrow victory in 2016. The Green Party has a significantly reduced profile heading into November. But it is the loss in stature of the Libertarian Party that is more note worthy. Libertarians far out polled the Greens in 2016. Libertarians appealed to significant numbers of younger voters in 2016 with their "pro-pot" position and anti-establishment branding etc.

There is an African American candidate on the Democratic ticket this year. There wasn't in 2016 when we lost, there was in 2008 and 2012 when we won. African American voter turn out dropped in 2016 from the prior two elections. That hurt Democrats.

The pandemic will have killed a quarter of a million Americans by the time election day arrives. This is on Trump's watch, and all of his pronouncements about how perfectly his administration has handled this catastrophe are only playing to his hard core base, his approval ratings on this front are damning.

The public is unhappy to a record degree over the course our nation is on. That is almost universally a referendum on the incumbent Administration. Trump can spin all he wants but everyone knows that the economy remains in terrible shape, largely due to how poorly the pandemic has been handled.

How horrific a human being Donald Trump is has been well litigated and firmly established a thousand times over with floods of new information now available about how utterly loathsome a human being he actually is. No, this does not negatively impact on his floor of support. What it does is lower the ceiling of support beyond his base that Trump can still aspire to, and his base alone doesn't cut it.

Of course there are things that Trump can and will play up to make sure that voters who are naturally inclined to support someone with his professed world view show up at the polls for him. Even Barry Goldwater got almost 39% of the vote in 1964. Any major party candidate in America starts out with over a third of the vote locked in solidly. And those voters tend to be fervent and vocal. I had a friend (of above average intellect, honest) who was convinced George McGovern was going to win in 1972 because where he lived in Oregon at the time McGovern was wildly popular.

Trump can and will rally his base. He will win back almost all of those who might have started wavering in their support of him. But his base is not enough. Trump has racism and the specter of "Anarchists" rioting in our cities going for him in 2020. He had racism and the specter of the M13 gang infiltrating suburbia in 2016. And Mexico DID NOT "pay for the wall". Trump has Russia "meddling in our elections" this year and that was true in 2016 also. But now it is out in the open, and some social media platforms have actually become at least somewhat more active in combating Russian efforts.

Election fundamentals have shifted AWAY from Trump since 2016. Grassroots Democrats are far more organized now than we had been prior to the 2016 election. His election was an eye opener and the immediate response to that came the day after his election with a nation wide (and beyond) mobilization of women against him. Republicans have lost ground nationally in every election year since 2016, and Democrats historically turn out the most in presidential election years.

In my opinion constantly repeating the refrain that this will be a very close election only helps give Trump the cover he needs to more blatantly attempt to steal it. If conventional wisdom hardens on a prediction that this can go either way, then it becomes easier for Trump to after the fact claim that he was the legitimate winner, but for rigging, once he is defeated.

Show me proof. Thank you.
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Offline I_B_Perky

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Re: Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2020, 07:19:05 PM »
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Tom Rinaldo (21,109 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214001216

Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated

Dilly, dilly, dummie!!

So there will be no voting fraud, no lost votes, no vote denied?  Right?

Right?

Bueller?
Living in the Dummies minds rent free since 2009!

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Offline Happy Fun Ball

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Re: Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2020, 07:42:22 PM »
The main reason why the 2016 upset won't happen: Most people expect Trump to win this time around, so it wouldn't really be considered an upset.

Offline franksolich

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Re: Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2020, 09:10:12 PM »

I kinda wish I could go into a coma and wake up just in time to vote.

I feel the same way.

It would spare us having to hear all this drivel.
apres moi, le deluge

Offline Zathras

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Re: Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2020, 02:08:40 AM »
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Tom Rinaldo (21,109 posts)

Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated

Au contraire mon frère. President Trump's victory will be an even bigger upset than in 2016 but not the upset you're thinking of. The upset will be you DUmbasses throwing a massive temper tantrum bigger than the one you threw in 2016 when Quid Pro Joe and Horrible Harris get blown out of the water in one of the biggest losses ever for a Presidential election.
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Offline ADsOutburst

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Re: Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2020, 09:26:12 AM »
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And if we don't beat him into humiliated pulp on Election Day, prosecute him, and hang his carcass from a lamp-post, with a wooden stake through his miniscule heart, he or his Satanic spawn could come back in years to come.
This poster seems to be on to something, although they perhaps don't know the half of it.

The pendulum always swings back. If the problems Trump is trying to address don't go away, neither will Trumpism.

Offline Delmar

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Re: Reasons why Trump's 2016 upset will not be repeated
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2020, 09:28:27 AM »
Au contraire mon frère. President Trump's victory will be an even bigger upset than in 2016 but not the upset you're thinking of. The upset will be you DUmbasses throwing a massive temper tantrum bigger than the one you threw in 2016 when Quid Pro Joe and Horrible Harris get blown out of the water in one of the biggest losses ever for a Presidential election.
You're right about this.  I agree with you that Biden losing will hit them harder than when Hillary got schlonged in 2016.  At first I thought that since a Biden loss wouldn't be as big of a shock to the leftists as Hillary's loss was that they would accept it more readily--they won't accept it, of course, but at least I thought that they would more readily resign themselves to the fact. 

I thought about it a little more and realized that it's going to be worse this time around.  This time around, when Biden loses, they are going to have the impulse to do all the things all over again that they tried in 2016 to reverse the results of that election, but it will dawn on them that those things won't work.  Celebrity videos urging electors to go the faithless route--doesn't work.  Impeaching Trump and Pence and having the House elect Biden Speaker of the House so he can be installed as President--that one won't work either.  I even remember that more than one primitive thought that they could just somehow demand that a do-over election be held.  All of the stupid ideas they came up with to overturn the 2016 election, they had real hope that they would work.  This time around, they are going to know from day one that it's just not going to work--no hope, no chance in hell.  That's going to be frustrating.  It won't stop them from trying the same stupid things all over again, but still, that's going to be frustrating to know that they are powerless to do anything about another four years of Trump and knowing it right from day one.
"I sat down, and I said, 'America's back' and Mitterrand from Germany — I mean from France — looked at me and said … "Well, how long are you back for?"
Crooked Joe Biden