« on: October 09, 2015, 07:11:53 PM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101412290261) The CEO of VW is directly responsible (For emissions problem - view comments)
2) Obama (USA CEO is NOT guilty of bombing a hospital. That was someone else - Rigorously defended)
Ichingcarpenter (34,939 posts)
Top U.S. VW Exec Blames 'A Couple of Software Engineers' for Scandal
Source: ASSOCIATED PRESS
Volkwagen's top executive in the U.S. told lawmakers on Thursday that cheating on emissions with the use of software in diesel cars was not a corporate decision, but something that "individuals did."
"This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever reason," Michael Horn, VW's U.S. head, said about the software code designed to cheat on emissions tests, which the company put in diesel cars since 2009.
"This was not a corporate decision. There was no board meeting that approved this," he added later, under questioning by members of the House of Representatives Oversight and Investigations panel.
Read more: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/vw-scandal-top-u-s-exec-offers-sincere-apology-cheating-n440971
No one is to blame...... just a couple of bad apples.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:22 AM
Erich Bloodaxe BSN (11,532 posts)
1. Utter and total BS.
Software coders wouldn't have put this in without being told to. There was zero to gain for them by so doing, but a heck of a lot to gain (or lose) by execs and shareholders.
Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #1)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:34 AM
Ichingcarpenter (34,939 posts)
3. Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi’
Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi’s cars are shown to emit significantly more NOx pollution on the road than in regulatory tests
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row?CMP=twt_gu
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Reply #3)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:56 AM
Star Member LiberalArkie (3,366 posts)
7. I could have believed middle-management or even some upper management being told to improve
emissions whatever it took. But since so many companies did it, it had to be very upper level. Definitely board approved.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Reply #3)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 01:21 PM
Star Member groundloop (3,894 posts)
16. No evidence any other companies doctored their software.... more likely unrealistic test procedures
It's been known for quite a while that EPA test protocols did a poor job of simulating real world conditions. As far as I know there hasn't been any proof (or even allegations) that any car company besides VW has cheated on the testing.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:25 AM
Star Member FSogol (26,908 posts)
2. LOL, the shredders must be working overtime at a certain car manufacturer HQ. n/t
Response to FSogol (Reply #2)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:37 AM
Ichingcarpenter (34,939 posts)
4. Four more carmakers join diesel emissions row
Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi have joined the growing list of manufacturers whose diesel cars are known to emit significantly more pollution on the road than in regulatory tests, according to data obtained by the Guardian.
Wide range of cars emit more pollution in realistic driving tests, data shows
In more realistic on-road tests, some Honda models emitted six times the regulatory limit of NOx pollution while some unnamed 4x4 models had 20 times the NOx limit coming out of their exhaust pipes.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row?CMP=twt_gu
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Reply #4)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:43 AM
Star Member FSogol (26,908 posts)
5. Darn those rogue software engineers!
Response to FSogol (Reply #5)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:13 PM
Star Member dixiegrrrrl (42,897 posts)
18. Wonder if they all graduated from the same school of Rogueness.....
had to be a plot.
Response to FSogol (Reply #2)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 11:25 AM
One_Life_To_Give (5,765 posts)
10. At that level Managers know how to Not document instructions
I doubt anyone actually wrote down that something illegal should be done. There are far too many ways to state such without actually saying so. Always leaving oneself plausible deniability.
Response to One_Life_To_Give (Reply #10)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 11:28 AM
Star Member FSogol (26,908 posts)
11. As an engineer (not a software one), I know exactly when something needs to be put in writing.
I'm sure those engineers put it on the record somehow.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:45 AM
mpcamb (336 posts)
6. Yeah, 'cuz software engineers had a lot to gain, whereas CEOs were just hoodwinked.
Hah!
Response to mpcamb (Reply #6)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 12:19 PM
uawchild (71 posts)
15. this! ^^^^^^^
Damn, it's always these bad apple low level employees going rouge messing things up for the honest law-abiding corporate CEOs.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 11:01 AM
Star Member DemoTex (22,364 posts)
8. The Kenny-boy Lay defense.
Enron redux.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 11:08 AM
NCjack (550 posts)
9. Attention engineers and scientists. Criminal management never cheats,
and it's always accuses "out-of-control" technical employees. For your protection, keep a daily diary that includes instructions to you with comments you returned and an updated copy of those stored in another location. Also, keep all original communications. Important to keep these items off your employer's property and where only you and a trusted person can get to them. Don't be a sap for criminal management.
Response to NCjack (Reply #9)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 11:42 AM
RobinA (4,574 posts)
12. I Used To Do This
And I'm not even a scientist or engineer. Worked for a corporate legal dept. I ran into the file awhile back and wondered if I had been overly paranoid. Probably not.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 12:00 PM
Star Member DisgustipatedinCA (9,782 posts)
13. Sure. Let's get those engineers under oath and see where the truth leads.
We all know how software coders love to build lies into their code in order to reap larger profits for their corporate masters.
Good luck with the blame-shifting, Michael Horn.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 12:13 PM
Demeter (83,669 posts)
14. And they did all that coding, just for the hell of it? For LULS?
Not a chance.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 01:29 PM
GliderGuider (18,691 posts)
17. Now pull the other one, Mikey. What a shameful, pusillanimous dodge. nt
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 03:32 PM
0rganism (17,846 posts)
19. mmhmmm, nice try, betcha that BS won't fly in court though
an expected response, blaming the faceless shmoos who implemented the offending code, but "a couple of software engineers" don't just "put this in for whatever reason." that's not how software occurs in a manufacturing environment.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 04:02 PM
yellowcanine (27,648 posts)
20. Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Sure they did. Try again Michael.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 05:38 PM
Star Member JudyM (2,600 posts)
21. Um, the fact that the board wasn't involved means nada. Zilch. Zippo.
Senior management can still approve and yes, direct, operations like this... Though of course they *should* clear anything of questionable legality with the board.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 05:54 PM
Dont call me Shirley (7,793 posts)
22. Nobody does anything in a corp unless it comes from the top down. VW execs lie.
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 05:56 PM
Blue_Tires (42,125 posts)
23. Yeah, we can fertilize the lawn with that one...
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 06:05 PM
truthisfreedom (18,633 posts)
24. I wonder how different the performance and mileage are
When the software is changed to keep the emission control engaged all of the time?
Response to truthisfreedom (Reply #24)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 07:23 PM
FiveGoodMen (15,653 posts)
25. As an owner of such a car, I wonder too!
Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 07:30 PM
Star Member arcane1 (33,361 posts)
26. "...for whatever reason". Yeah right.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 07:18:29 PM by Patriot Guard Rider »
Logged
Liberals disgust me. (Now I don't have to remember to put it on each post).
Because only the left goes searching for that which is not there in a desperate attempt to be offended about something.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams
Many people do not see evil until the gas is flowing into the chamber. That is why they get on the trains in the first place.
